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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:17 pm 
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andrewinwork wrote:
Looking at how he and Nico have performed over the test I'd have thought this from Lewis a little pessimistic

Lewis Hamilton says his Mercedes is not yet fast enough to compete for victories at the start of the season. The Englishman said: "We're not looking at wins at the moment. We're hoping to get into the points and fight for top 10. It's not fast enough to be quickest over one lap but it's not slow, that's for sure."



Remember Hamilton knows what Macca had last year.

One of his first interviews after driving the car he said it had less DF than last year Macca. So if he feels it's still behind last years macca, with Ferrari, RBR and likely Macca and Lotus finding more time he'll know that it is likely going to be behind them all this year again.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:24 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Can't believe Williams didn't set a fast lap today and chose to do pit stop practice the whole day instead. Seems mental when their 2013 missed the first test week completely.

Maybe they have all the data they are going to get from the parts they have ready.
Today the timings are all skewed anyway thanks to wet and damp track.

Surely they want some wet weather tyre testing though? If Melbourne has some wet running and the remaining tests stay dry then Williams could be on the back foot big time.

Splitting the test, half the day running on track and half the day doing pit stop practice could have been more favourable for them. Every other team felt the need to get some wet weather running after all.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:39 pm 
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andrewinwork wrote:
Looking at how he and Nico have performed over the test I'd have thought this from Lewis a little pessimistic

Lewis Hamilton says his Mercedes is not yet fast enough to compete for victories at the start of the season. The Englishman said: "We're not looking at wins at the moment. We're hoping to get into the points and fight for top 10. It's not fast enough to be quickest over one lap but it's not slow, that's for sure."

Lewis drove a car end of last season wich was the class of the field, maybe the best ( after 2007) he ever drove, so it's understanable he still can feel the difference driving the Mercedes. It's good he keeps the expectations low, as they hve still some way to go. Any positive surprise will be welcome.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
andrewinwork wrote:
Looking at how he and Nico have performed over the test I'd have thought this from Lewis a little pessimistic

Lewis Hamilton says his Mercedes is not yet fast enough to compete for victories at the start of the season. The Englishman said: "We're not looking at wins at the moment. We're hoping to get into the points and fight for top 10. It's not fast enough to be quickest over one lap but it's not slow, that's for sure."


Remember Hamilton knows what Macca had last year.

One of his first interviews after driving the car he said it had less DF than last year Macca. So if he feels it's still behind last years macca, with Ferrari, RBR and likely Macca and Lotus finding more time he'll know that it is likely going to be behind them all this year again.


This is a good point, and Lewis probably knows better than almost anyone the difference between his current team and the top. It's a shame to hear him so downbeat, because it pretty much cancels out the (possibly unfounded) optimism of the last few days, when Merc were looking better than expected.

Ah well, it's a shame to lose one of the big drivers from the front but he's said he wants to 'do a Schumacher' and bring Mercedes to the top...so we shall see.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Johnston wrote:
andrewinwork wrote:
Looking at how he and Nico have performed over the test I'd have thought this from Lewis a little pessimistic

Lewis Hamilton says his Mercedes is not yet fast enough to compete for victories at the start of the season. The Englishman said: "We're not looking at wins at the moment. We're hoping to get into the points and fight for top 10. It's not fast enough to be quickest over one lap but it's not slow, that's for sure."


Remember Hamilton knows what Macca had last year.

One of his first interviews after driving the car he said it had less DF than last year Macca. So if he feels it's still behind last years macca, with Ferrari, RBR and likely Macca and Lotus finding more time he'll know that it is likely going to be behind them all this year again.


This is a good point, and Lewis probably knows better than almost anyone the difference between his current team and the top. It's a shame to hear him so downbeat, because it pretty much cancels out the (possibly unfounded) optimism of the last few days, when Merc were looking better than expected.

Ah well, it's a shame to lose one of the big drivers from the front but he's said he wants to 'do a Schumacher' and bring Mercedes to the top...so we shall see.

good thing is no team seems to be really superior ATM. catching up is possible

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Circuit de Catalunya 19th-22nd February 2013
4.655km / 2.892 miles

Driver lapery (km)

01. Alonso / Ferrari - 283 Laps / 1317 Km
02. Chilton / Marussia - 240 / 1117
03. Bottas / Williams - 188 / 875
04. Vergne / Toro Rosso - 186 / 866
05. Hulkenberg / Sauber - 179 / 833
06. Maldonado / Williams - 178 / 829
07. Perez / McLaren - 174 / 810
08. Hamilton / Mercedes - 173 / 805
09. Webber / Red Bull - 172 / 801
10. Guiterrez / Sauber - 164 / 763
11. Rosberg / Mercedes - 161 / 749
12. Grosjean / Lotus - 160 / 745
13. Pic / Caterham - 151 / 703
14. Vettel / Red Bull - 150 / 698
15. di Resta / Force India - 144 / 670
16. van der Garde / Caterham - 143 / 666
17. Ricciardo / Toro Rosso - 142 / 661
18. Button / McLaren - 141 / 656
19. Raikkonen / Lotus - 87 / 405
20. Massa / Ferrari - 80 / 372
21. Sutil / Force India - 78 / 363
22. Bianchi / Force India - 61 / 284

Total Pirelli mileage
3435 Laps
15 990 Km / 9 934 Miles

Combined fastest times
01. Perez / McLaren - 1:21.848
02. Alonso / Ferrari - 1:21.875 +0.027
03. Hulkenberg / Sauber - 1:22.160 +0.312
04. Grosjean / Lotus - 1:22.188 +0.340
05. Vettel / Red Bull - 1:22.197 + 0.349
06. Rosberg / Mercedes - 1:22.611 +0.763
07. Raikkonen / Lotus - 1:22.623 + 0.775
08. Maldonado / Williams - 1:22.675 +0.827
09. Hamilton / Mercedes - 1:22.726 + 0.878
10. Bottas / Williams - 1:22.826 +0.978
11. Button / McLaren - 1:22.840 +0.992
12. Sutil / Force India - 1:22.877 +1.029
13. Webber / Red Bull - 1:23.024 +1.176
14. Vergne / Toro Rosso - 1:23.366 +1.518
15. Ricciardo / Toro Rosso - 1:23.718 + 1.870
16. di Resta / Force India - 1:23.971 + 2.123
17. Chilton / Marussia - 1:25.115 + 3.267
18. Guiterrez / Sauber - 1:25.124 + 3.276
19. van der Garde / Caterham - 1:26.177 +4.329
20. Pic / Caterham - 1:26.243 + 4.395

Wet Day 4 no relevent times
21. Bianchi / Force India - 1:25.732 +2.450
22. Massa / Ferrari - 1:27.563 +4.281


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:25 pm 
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1) Rosberg says he thinks the car will be capable of wins, Hamilton says the opposite. What?

2) Wet weather data isn't THAT important. Usually when its wet you don't have much of a choice in what you run - the crossover times dictate full wet vs. inter, and its been somewhat rare to have wet qualifying AND wet race. If you have one or the other, you still have to set up the car for the dry. The adjustments you'd make from dry to wet are pretty standard too - and the effects are a known quantity. There also isn't a big difference in wet and dry set up anymore with the current suspension and tires, aero rules.

3) Something you CAN work on to be better prepared for wet weather is pit stops - not overshooting the marks on the slippery surface, mechanics getting practice handling wet car/wheels/tires/guns, not binning it on the way out.

4) You can do useful aero testing in the wet (constant or slow speed, no need to go charging around).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:31 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
1) Rosberg says he thinks the car will be capable of wins, Hamilton says the opposite. What?


One would have to presume that Lewis is aware any comments he makes will deconstructed with far greater scrutiny than those of Nico. And expectations from others are probably higher. I guess he's just managing expectation. His, and those of all the vultures.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Circuit de Catalunya 19th-22nd February 2013
4.655km / 2.892 miles

Team Mileage

01. Williams-Renault - 366 Laps / 1704 Km (1058 Miles)
02. Scuderia Ferrari - 363 / 1690 (1050)
03. Sauber-Ferrari - 343 / 1597 (992)
04. Mercedes-Benz - 334 / 1555 (966)
05. Toro Rosso-Ferrari - 328 / 1527 (949)
06. Red Bull-Renault - 322 / 1499 (931)
07. McLaren-Mercedes - 315 / 1466 (911)
08. Caterham-Renault - 294 / 1369 (850)
09. Force India-Mercedes - 283 / 1317 (818)
10. Lotus-Renault - 247 / 1150 (714)
11. Marussia-Cosworth - 240 / 1117 (694)

Engine Mileage
01. Renault - 1229 Laps / 5721 Km (3554 Miles)
02. Ferrari - 1034 / 4813 (2990)
03. Mercedes-Benz - 932 / 4338 (2695)
04. Cosworth - 240 / 1117 (694)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:41 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
1) Rosberg says he thinks the car will be capable of wins, Hamilton says the opposite. What?


One would have to presume that Lewis is aware any comments he makes will deconstructed with far greater scrutiny than those of Nico. And expectations from others are probably higher. I guess he's just managing expectation. His, and those of all the vultures.

I know what he's doing. My point is that the Merc press office is failing.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Sorry, I just got home from work. Could anybody tell us why Ferrari and Red Bull were more than 4 sec off pace today?
Were they using race setup while others were on Q3 setup? Or maybe they were testing some special components only and didn't care with their maximum speed?
Webber was even only faster than the two backmarkers.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Hamilton for WDC!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Hamilton will be on the front row in Melbourne.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Is the weather going to be any warmer next week to give a better indication on the tyre durability?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:05 pm 
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You boys are more optimistic than Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Perhaps he could really put it off?

Still Vettel I think will be there as the season progresses, I think he will win.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Mi3hael wrote:
Buttons comments I read today sound a little concerning to me. A bad car can be improved, but a car which is hard hard to understand may mean development goes in the wrong direction. I don't want to read much into one statement, as McLaren have looked good in testing so far, but will this hamper the development of the MP4-28 down the line.

"It's been very difficult to understand where the car is. At times it feels good; at others it doesn't,"


Williams were a bit like this in 2003. Took the drivers 6 races to understand the car.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:31 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
I know what he's doing. My point is that the Merc press office is failing.


I'm not familiar with the minutiae of press offices, but weren't those opinions expressed by the drivers directly to Ted, etc...?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:38 pm 
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2013 1st and 2nd test mileage combined.

Team mileage

01. Sauber F1 Team - 3501 km
02. Williams F1 Team - 3179 km (FW34 - 1475 km) (FW35 -1704 km)
03. Infiniti Red Bull Racing - 3146 km
04. Scuderia Toro Rosso - 2988 km
05. Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - 2968 km
06. Scuderia Ferrari - 2921 km
07. Sahara Force India F1 Team - 2898 km
08. Vodafone McLaren Mercedes - 2790 km
09. Caterham F1 Team - 2777 km
10. Lotus F1 Team - 2354 km
11. Marussia F1 Team - 2091 km

Engine Mileage
01. Renault - 11455km (4 teams)
02. Ferrari - 9409km (3 teams)
03. Mercedes-Benz - 8656km (3 teams)
04. Cosworth - 2091km (1 team)

Tyre Mileage
Pirelli - 47 273 km (29 374 miles)!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Does anyone know why Marussia didn't run Razia at Barcelona?
Are they splitting the two tests there?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:47 pm 
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They said it was for continuity. Media whispers say a) maybe his check hasn't cleared yet, and/or b) Papa Chilton is acquiring a stake in the team each year of Max's contract, and thus Max shall be the favorite son, literally and figuratively.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Re: Williams - Wet weather testing before the car is set up or balanced nicely for dry track work is rather pointless in my opinion. In fact, it could possibly be argued that 'finding' a good wet set up in pre-season testing is absolutely futile (compared to say Fri/Sat practise in prep for a wet race?)! In general, wet set up would involve tweaking dampers and suspension and gearing/diff and torque settings with max wing angle/DF, etc - all are very track specific and little of which will be applicable when the car is further developed through the season?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
You boys are more optimistic than Hamilton.


It just wouldn't surprise me if Mercedes did a similar job to last season where they had a car that was extremely quick over 1 lap in the initial races.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:02 pm 
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MikeV1987 wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
FWIW - I think Macca are sandbagging a bit.............just a hunch though


This, same for Red Bull


agree! In fact, I think most of the top teams are being very cagey, which is to be expected - but I'll have a bet that come quali in Melbourne most will be where they left off last year (in the pecking order I mean!). JB blasted a fast time early on 'out the box' and then Macca went all quiet - which is a bit suss IMO - and same for RB, SV was easily able to 'move it'!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:05 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Johnston wrote:
You boys are more optimistic than Hamilton.


It just wouldn't surprise me if Mercedes did a similar job to last season where they had a car that was extremely quick over 1 lap in the initial races.


Possibly - but it will gain them butt all if it chews tyres like paper! I think Merc are concentrating on the balance/tyre wear issues with the current DF levels - and are hoping if/when they can improve aero/DF they will be in better shape?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:07 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Johnston wrote:
You boys are more optimistic than Hamilton.


It just wouldn't surprise me if Mercedes did a similar job to last season where they had a car that was extremely quick over 1 lap in the initial races.



Merc were fast in quali in part to heating the tyres fast and the DDRS.

Heating tyres so quick is something they are trying to stop. So it still being there is bad and DDRS is banned.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Nico optimism and Lewis pessimism can be explained and both be true.

The Lewis Mclaren package was very strong at the end of the season. Looked capable of winning 6/10 races.
The Button Mclaren package was not so strong at the end of the season. Looked capable of winning 2/10 races.

If you remove Lewis' results and his retirements from the lead, the Mclaren in the hands of Jenson would not look like being the the fastest car in the second half of 2012. So was the Mclaren the fastest car or was it Lewis?
Vettel dominated Button over that period, even more so than 2011. Alonso was also ahead in points and when both finishes over the last 10 races. So there is a case for Red Bull and Ferrari being ahead of Mclaren.

I use the last 10 races as thats after Jensons tyre woes.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:19 pm 
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I imagine Nico is impressed that the Merc' is better than last years car, so optimism is normal.

Is it possible that even though it's a step forward, it's still not quite as good as the Macca was at the end of last season, hence Lewis' pessimism ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:03 pm 
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blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:22 pm 
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The way I see it is

When Merc do good at a test it's us seeing the real potential

When Merc don't do good at a test... It's only testing

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know

You don't know how much was in Button's tank though. So you can't compare the laps fairly.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know

You don't know how much was in Button's tank though. So you can't compare the laps fairly.

But you can calculate how much faster the time could have been with less fuel and there the time looks competitive, regardless what Button did

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know



Fuels only half the equation.

The teams aren't running Barca specific set ups. If one team is running a set up that suits barca then they will look quick. If one is running a set up that doesn't to look at tyres reaction for example they will look slow.

Some of the teams were doing constant speed runs too which again will make things look slower as they are effectively bouncing off the limiter at a lower speed.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:32 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
The way I see it is

When Merc do good at a test it's us seeing the real potential

When Merc don't do good at a test... It's only testing

Oh yes, and the other way round for others

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know

You don't know how much was in Button's tank though. So you can't compare the laps fairly.

But you can calculate how much faster the time could have been with less fuel and there the time looks competitive, regardless what Button did

You don't know what any of the other cars were doing for fuel. So you can't compare the Merc with the others properly. Only the teams know. Merc will know exactly how much fuel Hamilton had and can take a fairly accurate guess at everyone else, Hamilton isn't happy so we can conclude they aren't at the sharp end just yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know



Fuels only half the equation.

The teams aren't running Barca specific set ups. If one team is running a set up that suits barca then they will look quick. If one is running a set up that doesn't to look at tyres reaction for example they will look slow.

Some of the teams were doing constant speed runs too which again will make things look slower as they are effectively bouncing off the limiter at a lower speed.

you also don't know wich set up Mercedes run!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know

You don't know how much was in Button's tank though. So you can't compare the laps fairly.

But you can calculate how much faster the time could have been with less fuel and there the time looks competitive, regardless what Button did

You don't know what any of the other cars were doing for fuel. So you can't compare the Merc with the others properly. Only the teams know. Merc will know exactly how much fuel Hamilton had and can take a fairly accurate guess at everyone else, Hamilton isn't happy so we can conclude they aren't at the sharp end just yet.

I don't compare it to others, or did you read a comparison anywhere at my posts?
This times speak for themselves & they have not been completely rubbish. 18 laps on mediums with a reasonable drop in times , is not too bad
Even if Lewis seems not to be jumping for joy, I ve seen nobody so far who does it
There seems to be no team wich is clearly ahead so far. Of course Mercedes has to improve,but their longer runs look not too bad.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton was the fastest when everyone was on intermediate, and then Button posted a slower lap on mediums than Hamilton's fastest lap on mediums after the track continued to dry up! That Mercedes in the hands of Hamilton is certainly looking capable of winning in Melbourne, wet or dry!!!

Two words, fuel loads. We don't know who was running what.

It was a 18 lap stint , so there was a resonable amount of fuel at Hamiltons car this much we know



Fuels only half the equation.

The teams aren't running Barca specific set ups. If one team is running a set up that suits barca then they will look quick. If one is running a set up that doesn't to look at tyres reaction for example they will look slow.

Some of the teams were doing constant speed runs too which again will make things look slower as they are effectively bouncing off the limiter at a lower speed.

you also don't know wich set up Mercedes run!


Or if the car they were running was even legal.

Nevermind that the cars that we seen today will be different next week and different again come Melbourne.

Which makes all the ifs buts and whens pointless until Melbourne.

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