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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Any one gotten to the bottomof the Sauber debate.

Is Nico out in last years car?

The pics of it being unloaded certainly look like last years

He's in the new car,

http://www.sutton-images.com/searchresu ... 46a&page=4

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Chilton crash could be mechanical. (brakes or suspension?)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Any one gotten to the bottomof the Sauber debate.

Is Nico out in last years car?

The pics of it being unloaded certainly look like last years

He's in the new car,

http://www.sutton-images.com/searchresu ... 46a&page=4



:thumbup: :thumbup:

So either a show car or last years pic then.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Any one gotten to the bottomof the Sauber debate.

Is Nico out in last years car?

The pics of it being unloaded certainly look like last years

He's in the new car,

http://www.sutton-images.com/searchresu ... 46a&page=4



:thumbup: :thumbup:

So either a show car or last years pic then.

Could be a back up car in case they do suffer a crash or break down? Then at least they get info on the new tyres all day. I think learning the tyres quickly is going to be key again this season. Which is why McLaren and particularly Mercedes are on the back foot already.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Any one gotten to the bottomof the Sauber debate.

Is Nico out in last years car?

The pics of it being unloaded certainly look like last years

He's in the new car,

http://www.sutton-images.com/searchresu ... 46a&page=4



:thumbup: :thumbup:

So either a show car or last years pic then.


It can't be last year's pic as the Chelsea FC partnership wasn't announced until midway through last season.

Probably there for commercial reasons as you say.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:24 pm 
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suspension fail for marussia!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Not Chilton's fault then. I still have my doubts about him though. He's not ready to be the development leader of a team.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Could be a back up car in case they do suffer a crash or break down? Then at least they get info on the new tyres all day. I think learning the tyres quickly is going to be key again this season. Which is why McLaren and particularly Mercedes are on the back foot already.



IIRC as soon as a new chassis is on the track (i.e. past the pitlane exit line) they are not allowed to run the old one.


Colinjb wrote:

It can't be last year's pic as the Chelsea FC partnership wasn't announced until midway through last season.

Probably there for commercial reasons as you say.


Good point dear Sir.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Webber goes quickest. The Red Bull delivers a 1m19.709s.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Could be a back up car in case they do suffer a crash or break down? Then at least they get info on the new tyres all day. I think learning the tyres quickly is going to be key again this season. Which is why McLaren and particularly Mercedes are on the back foot already.



IIRC as soon as a new chassis is on the track (i.e. past the pitlane exit line) they are not allowed to run the old one.


Colinjb wrote:

It can't be last year's pic as the Chelsea FC partnership wasn't announced until midway through last season.

Probably there for commercial reasons as you say.


Good point dear Sir.

I've never heard of that rule before.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:31 pm 
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everybody getting quicker times in now


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Suspension failure could be as simple as going over a camber to aggressively, have to wait for all the details really


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
I've never heard of that rule before.



Was part of the whole thing to stop teams using more than 2 chassis designs a year like Ferrari used to do I think.

I remember it being talked about in 2010 (IIRC) when Macca used the old car for the first test.

Actually come to think of it is not there not a one chassis per day rule as part of the cost regs? and thats why the teams only take one chassis that gets shared.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Maldonado (78) and di Resta (79) battling for the most laps completed today


Last edited by rife_hypocricy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:42 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
Suspension failure could be as simple as going over a camber to aggressively, have to wait for all the details really


It could have been a big crash too.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Button kills the timing screen!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:49 pm 
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1:18.861 nice lap on the 'ards


Last edited by rife_hypocricy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Hello McLaren!
Obviously far too early to read anything yet, but going quick after a difficult day can't be a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Don't forget it's unofficial so there could be a cut corner in their somewhere.


Almost a second is a big chunk of real estate.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Given the lack of testing any loss of an entire day is serious. I think Mercedes would probably agree given the progress they hoped to make.

I disagree. Testing is important, but if they have fast car it will be fast in Oz regardless of number of laps completed during testing. There is little time to fix major flaws, cars are already after crash tests. Look at Lotus last year. They missed many days, but RoGro started from front row in Melbourne. Ferrari on the other hand was dog and stayed dog despite extensive testing.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:58 pm 
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1 chassis per test, regardless of old/new.

I see a lot of reading too much into the first day of testing type comments...relax folks :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:59 pm 
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benmc wrote:
Hello McLaren!
Obviously far too early to read anything yet, but going quick after a difficult day can't be a bad thing.

Fast and fragile. Like last year... :-P

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Come on Grosjean you're almost a full second down! Kimi went faster a year ago after spending two years in a ditch beside a WRC stage!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:04 pm 
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well that's your lot


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Caterham over 3 secs down.. I wonder is that gvg or is that the car? My bet bit of both


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:04 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Given the lack of testing any loss of an entire day is serious. I think Mercedes would probably agree given the progress they hoped to make.

I disagree. Testing is important, but if they have fast car it will be fast in Oz regardless of number of laps completed during testing. There is little time to fix major flaws, cars are already after crash tests. Look at Lotus last year. They missed many days, but RoGro started from front row in Melbourne. Ferrari on the other hand was dog and stayed dog despite extensive testing.

If they can't test then they can't iron out little problems. If they are fast in Oz but can't make it to the end of the race then they'll score nothing. Simple as that.

Merc will want as much track time as possible to learn the new tyres. If they don't then they'll be on the back foot all year.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Image

Fastest laps - Day 1
01. Button/McLaren - 1:18.861 - 37 Laps
02. Webber/Red Bull - 1:19.709 +0.848 - 73 Laps
03. Grosjean/Lotus - 1:19.796 +0.935 - 54 Laps
04. di Resta/Force India - 1:20.343 +1.482 - 89 Laps
05. Ricciardo/Toro Rosso - 1:20.401 +1.540 - 70 Laps
06. Massa/Ferrari - 1:20.536 +1.675 - 64 Laps
07. Hulkenberg/Sauber - 1:20.699 +1.838 - 79 Laps
08. Rosberg/Mercedes - 1:20.846 +1.985 - 11 Laps
09. Maldonado/Williams - 1:20.864 +2.003 - 84 Laps
10. van der Garde/Caterham - 1:21.915 +3.054 - 64 Laps
11. Chilton/Marussia - 1:24.176 +5.315 - 29 Laps


Last edited by rife_hypocricy on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:09 pm 
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rife_hypocricy wrote:
Image

Fastest laps - Day 1
1. Button/McLaren-1:18.861
2. Webber/Red Bull-1:19.709
3. Grosjean/Lotus-1:19.796
4. di Resta/Force India-1:20.343
5. Ricciardo/Toro Rosso-1:20.401
6. Massa/Ferrari-1:20.536
7. Hulkenberg/Sauber-1:20.699
8. Rosberg/Mercedes-1:20.846
9. Maldonado/Williams-1:20.864
10. van der Garde/Caterham-1:21.915

Chilton?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Given the lack of testing any loss of an entire day is serious. I think Mercedes would probably agree given the progress they hoped to make.

I disagree. Testing is important, but if they have fast car it will be fast in Oz regardless of number of laps completed during testing. There is little time to fix major flaws, cars are already after crash tests. Look at Lotus last year. They missed many days, but RoGro started from front row in Melbourne. Ferrari on the other hand was dog and stayed dog despite extensive testing.

If they can't test then they can't iron out little problems. If they are fast in Oz but can't make it to the end of the race then they'll score nothing. Simple as that.

Merc will want as much track time as possible to learn the new tyres. If they don't then they'll be on the back foot all year.

They are busy fixing reliability. Testing worked as intended. Problem was spotted and they are fixing it. :)

My point is if they are not quick out of the box, they will find it hard to fix it regardless of number of laps. Much of the design is already frozen.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:13 pm 
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You can show up with something completely different in Australia than you had in Jerez. Nothing is frozen.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Is anyone else surprised by the lap Jenson put in? nearly 8 and a half tenth's quicker thank mark in the RB. I know its not a good idea to read too much into the test times, but this would seem like a pretty large gap. Reminds me of 2009 with the brawn.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:17 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
You can show up with something completely different in Australia than you had in Jerez. Nothing is frozen.

I'm not sure if you can easily fix length and height of car or configuration of suspension etc. Teams just add new parts around crash protection structures and monocoque. If you do something wrong there you are doomed.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:18 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
rife_hypocricy wrote:
Image

Fastest laps - Day 1
01. Button/McLaren - 1:18.861 - 37 Laps
02. Webber/Red Bull - 1:19.709 +0.848 - 73Laps
03. Grosjean/Lotus - 1:19.796 +0.935 - 54Laps
04. di Resta/Force India - 1:20.343 +1.482 - 89Laps
05. Ricciardo/Toro Rosso - 1:20.401 +1.540 - 70Laps
06. Massa/Ferrari - 1:20.536 +1.675 - 64Laps
07. Hulkenberg/Sauber - 1:20.699 +1.838 - 79Laps
08. Rosberg/Mercedes - 1:20.846 +1.985 - 11Laps
09. Maldonado/Williams - 1:20.864 +2.003 - 84Laps
10. van der Garde/Caterham - 1:21.915 +3.054 - 64Laps
11. Chilton/Marussia - 1:24.176 +5.315 - 29Laps

Chilton?


it says Fastest Laps, chilton was slowww... 8O

updated


Last edited by rife_hypocricy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Mclaren look in good shape, they had some teething trouble, but they managed to overcome it and set a very good lap.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:
Is anyone else surprised by the lap Jenson put in? nearly 8 and a half tenth's quicker thank mark in the RB. I know its not a good idea to read too much into the test times, but this would seem like a pretty large gap. Reminds me of 2009 with the brawn.



As I said before, it's all unofficial so there could be a cut corner in there somewhere ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:
Is anyone else surprised by the lap Jenson put in? nearly 8 and a half tenth's quicker thank mark in the RB. I know its not a good idea to read too much into the test times, but this would seem like a pretty large gap. Reminds me of 2009 with the brawn.

No.

It's testing. I think we need to put this in big bold letters at the top of the forum for testing days.

No time, high or low means anything. They all mean naff all as:

1) Its unofficial
2) You dont know who is/isnt usind DRS/Kers during testing
3) You dont know fuel loads
4) You dont know tires
5) You dont know if they cut corners
6) Every single car except 1 may be on a very conservative test, thus making one seem amazingly fast.
7) It's testing
8) It's testing
9) It's testing
10) It's testing

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:31 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
You can show up with something completely different in Australia than you had in Jerez. Nothing is frozen.

I'm not sure if you can easily fix length and height of car or configuration of suspension etc. Teams just add new parts around crash protection structures and monocoque. If you do something wrong there you are doomed.

Length and height are dictated by the rules, and teams make changes to their suspension configuration throughout the season so they certainly can do it during testing. Its unlikely that a fundamentally poor area of the car would be the crash structures or monocoque. THey are, again, largely dictated by the rules. We have seen many times, even recently, cars turn up in Melbourne that are vastly different from what ran around in Spain. Think McLaren 2011, RBR 2012.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:36 pm 
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RickM wrote:
Dalemac wrote:
Is anyone else surprised by the lap Jenson put in? nearly 8 and a half tenth's quicker thank mark in the RB. I know its not a good idea to read too much into the test times, but this would seem like a pretty large gap. Reminds me of 2009 with the brawn.

No.

It's testing. I think we need to put this in big bold letters at the top of the forum for testing days.

No time, high or low means anything. They all mean naff all as:

1) Its unofficial
2) You dont know who is/isnt usind DRS/Kers during testing
3) You dont know fuel loads
4) You dont know tires
5) You dont know if they cut corners
6) Every single car except 1 may be on a very conservative test, thus making one seem amazingly fast.
7) It's testing
8) It's testing
9) It's testing
10) It's testing

Its all very well saying its testing but i'm pretty sure you can get some sort of pecking order from testing. At the end of the day Mclaren are top and Marussia are bottom of the timing screens. Familiar picture to the actual season.

What im saying is you cant completely rule out the testing times as they do tend to paint a true picture of the order (reading between the lines)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:
Is anyone else surprised by the lap Jenson put in? nearly 8 and a half tenth's quicker thank mark in the RB. I know its not a good idea to read too much into the test times, but this would seem like a pretty large gap. Reminds me of 2009 with the brawn.

Not really. Grosjean was 4 tenths faster last year . Taking into account development and the fact that pirelli claim their tires are 0.5 sec per lap faster i think we will see some cars breach the 1:16 barrier by the end of the test.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:43 pm 
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No, they really don't. Tires, fuel loads, and run programs dictate the times. There are no constants to use for comparison.

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