planetf1.com

also, don't forget the "s" word.

_________________

There's not alot you can gain though. It's all good saying McLaren are near the top, that's all well and good, but you made that assumption based on previous experience, not actual testing. We simply do not know enough of the details. All we can do is sort of clump cars together in order of what we think their pace is. Basing very little from the test data, and more from our personal assumptions.

_________________
Formula Mercedes

Alonso

Most interesting observation I have for the first day is that when guys seemed to be doing a hot lap, then a slow lap, then a hot lap, the hot laps were getting slower by a half to a full second, not tenths. A lot to think about there.

_________________

testing doesn't mean anything unless your favourite driver is quickest!!

If your fave driver is slow he is sandbagging

It is possible to make fairly accurate predictions from testing.

However, to do this one has to completely ignore the timing screens and look at the facial expressions and body language of each team's drivers and other personnel.

Good luck trying to figure out Di Resta's feelings.....................

Read what Massa said about the new F138.

He said "Its on a completely different planet" to the F2012 from last year. Its a good sign, but he said the car was running hotter than usual. Hopefully, Ferrari will resolve the issue to maintain the type of reliablity they had last season with the F2012.

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... 00105.html

_________________
Felipe Massa fan/supporter since 2002 and counting!

We ALL love you Schumi! Don't ever give up!

I've just been shouting at the telly. Only put Sky Sports News to hear about the latest day of woe for my football club, but then they turned their attention to today's testing - they wouldn't have even acknowledged it was going on before last year.

Anyhoo, Jim White, the presenter who is semi-famous among football fans for getting very excited on transfer deadline day in the Premier League went all TDL on today's events.
He explained how Jenson Button's car had to be taken back [raised voice in mock shock] ON A PICK UP TRUCK, and that 'the 2009 World Champion had to hitch a lift back to the pits [raised voice again] HOW EMBARRASSING'.

It's the first day of pre-season testing you idiot. Save the hyperbole for something you actually know something about.

Button's lap after the quick one, at 1:19.696, was still faster than Webber!

di Resta very consistent, one 9 lap stint saw them all within 6/10ths

Massa & Grosjean not able (or not not trying) to be consistent, times varying by up to 2s on similar stints

_________________
Sebastien Vettel, the youngest driver ever to have the fastest car in F1 for four consecutive years

Sky's refusal to report on anything they don't cover is so irritating. On the day Kubica had his rally accident I turned on Sky Sports News to try to get the latest on his condition rather than rely on internet rumours. Of course the breaking news at the time was the starting line-up for some irrelevant football match from the Championship.

I think it's easier to pick cars that are bad, rather than find the fastest car. During tests Ferrari looked horribly while cornering and it was horrible in Oz.

_________________
***

I was talking about push rod or pull rod configuration. If you start season with low nose, you will end with low nose etc. To fix length you can just add longer nosecone, but wheels will be attached to to the same spot during testing and Brazilian GP. I said easily, because teams may find some workarounds, but they always will be suboptimal. Of course teams may bring many new parts, but some fundamentals cannot be changed. McLaren had to wait till new season to bring higher nose and chassis or pullrod front suspension.

_________________
***

They didn't have to, they chose to. A push vs pull rod concept will not be fundamentally bad - one is not better or worse, they are just different. Its VERY unlikely to find something you'd want to do that can only be accomplished with the other. You'd have to have a WHOLE bad car to need to start over, and they'd know from simulation if their concept was hopeless, and they'd know that a long time ago. Nobody will have shown up at testing with a car that just plain doesn't work - not at this level of the sport.

_________________

Christ all mighty, was it a bad day at work or something?

I was merely suggesting that to be quickest by almost a second is not typical, even in testing. Although teams are keeping their cards close to their chest, it can at least indicate the state and condition of the car they are running. Hence:



No need to be so obnoxious.

Wow... I know we as fans often times over react to things. However, there seems to be no doubt that the Macca is the fastest car out there right now... Button himself was a bit taken back by the speed of the car out of the gate...

Sorry, its just people keep coming out with lines like "driver X isn't doing too good, he only set a 1.xx - 4 seconds off the pace" - it means chocolate fudge cake all in reality.

Like people assuming Marussia and Caterham are doing terrible because they are 5 seconds off the fastest time. In reality, Marussia had a failure (thus couldn't continue testing) and Caterham were likely doing what everyone else was - TESTING. The point of testing isn't to set a fast lap time, its to go through every situation you expect the car to experience in an F1 season. Be it doing lots of laps to see how tire wear works (so you'd be on a high fuel load) or doing a hot lap to see how the car handles under pressure. Even on a hot lap, the chances of everything being geared up for full power are next to zero at this stage.

Barcelona tests will show much more accurate times, especially on the last day of testing. If you look historically back at each year, times before this really do mean about as much as the contents of the bottom of my coffee cup.

There arent any ifs or buts about it, the times mean diddly squat. Sorry if it comes across as blunt but its getting tiresome having to explain this over and over.

Also there's really no need for teams to keep their cards close to their chest. Whatever happens everyone has to do a hot lap at some point, be it now or in Brazil. Maybe macca just wanted to get it over and done with now, so that they have a baseline time on the current setup before they test other new parts tomorrow.

Now this all being said, would I like to see button topping the time sheets? Absolutely! But again, it really doesn't mean a lot in the grand scale of things.

_________________

Let's keep it on the friendly side, besides, what are we supposed to do? since we don't have any races yet, testing is the hottest scoop at this time. It's only natural to try splitting hairs about these results. Keeps us busy 'till the actual show gets on the road.

Curious as to what Williams are doing. What relevance does the data accumulated today have? 84 laps that's a major haul, but if it's gained using the old 2012 chassis, then most of it would probably even not fit the new chassis...no? like tire usage, durability hit, engine heating, etc. I admit that maybe some elements would not change with the new car (some supension elements, engine, steering wheel) but a new chassis would come with a whole lot of subtle differences, mounting points, slightly different camber etc etc etc...how do you get a delta time out of 2012's chassis?

_________________
Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.

I put a reminder in my sig

_________________

You can learn the general characteristics and behavior of the tires, which is one of if not the most important things to get data on in.

_________________

Doesn't matter, may point is that they can't change it during season.

_________________
***

Well, that's pretty much what I was asking. if they bring a new chassis with different suspension mounting points, with different airflow which might cool/heat tires differently, won't that change the behavior of the tires on the new car?

_________________
Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.

fire caused by the wiring loom?

assumingly rather close to a hot primary ignition source?

appreciate its testing but that seems rather careless and badly designed?.

_________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lets look sharp people, I want a quick dispersal this time.............check those corners......check those corners!!!!!

Every year during early spring a group of people emerge from hibernation and go about on a most peculiar ritual of telling everyone that testing times don't mean anything. One can only marvel at the precision of timing and sense of purpose of these occurrences.
No one really yet understands this behavior but it is believed to stem from ancient sociological features evolved through the millennia.
Truly magnificent phenomenon.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas

I don't really get what you are hinting at with your Sig.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

excellent! made me chuckle.

_________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lets look sharp people, I want a quick dispersal this time.............check those corners......check those corners!!!!!

Sure they can.

ATM2 - Trends with the tires' characteristics wont change much car to car - the difference in aero and suspension concepts just maximize the performance within those trends. If anything using the old chassis will directly highlight how the tires have changed, and that in itself is very valuable data.

_________________

I think you can gain a bit from testing you can usually tell which cars seem to be handling well and if the drivers feel comfortable in them, also you need to take into account the nature of the testing like this morning most were doing plenty of systems checks (marussia were checking their kers was full operational) whereas others were doing more aero evaluation which doesn't require top speed more constant speed, then you have those that were primarily doing tyre evaluations which were doing hot laps. So anything you gain must be done based on the type of testing carried out, come Barcelona or Australia most will have new front wings and rear wings though anyway,many have already said as much so yes you can get ideas but aren't by any means a true pecking order. I will say one thing though both Massa and button looked very comfortable in their respective cars,if the set up suits button he can be blisteringly fast and Massa looks confident and if he follows last years end of year form could be quite a tussle at the top between the teams rather than just one driver from each.

[quote="Hakkattack"]Wow... I know we as fans often times over react to things. However, there seems to be no doubt that the Macca is the fastest car out there right now... Button himself was a bit taken back by the speed of the car out of the gate...[/quote]

Just before the fuel pump gave up the ghost I guess?

_________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lets look sharp people, I want a quick dispersal this time.............check those corners......check those corners!!!!!

should I make it bigger?

_________________

Maybe, what does "just" mean?

_________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lets look sharp people, I want a quick dispersal this time.............check those corners......check those corners!!!!!

Just a reminder that Rosberg had the quickest time over the 4 days tetsing at Jerez last year with a 1m17.613 on day 3 and we know how awful they performed throughout the year (although their qualifying in australia wasn't too bad, 4th and 7th).

Headline times really don't tell the whole story, although if someone had put in a 1m16 today we may be saying otherwise (outright speed doesn't lie). I'm sure Caterham or Marussia would love to put in a time like Button's. Even if they were stripped out bear I'm not they'd be able to.

Apart from this, read any 'expert' opinion and they'll tell you that long run pace is the best way to understand the pecking order. Others also check out a cars behaviour at a certain corner to see how the car handles (ferrari last year for example, it was obvious it was a handful). As Jerez is the 1st test, not many meaningful long runs happen the first couple of days if at all, it's all about system checks and setup.

I expect the real hacks will be able to give us a first insight at he end of this test but we'll have to wait until Barcelona to see if those first impressions were near the mark.

It's a puzzle gents, lets try not to put the last piece in before we've finished the edges!! Enjoy the suspense, we've been waiting 2 months for it all to begin!!

love it!

_________________

FYI to anyone with Sky - todays coverage of testing is on now followed by Ted's notebook.

_________________

GROANNNNNNNNN!!!!!

_________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lets look sharp people, I want a quick dispersal this time.............check those corners......check those corners!!!!!

respectfully, i have to ... not too long ago a team them known as virgin racing managed to show up with a car that wouldn't make a full race distance due to a too small fuel tank ... i would call that hopeless and it was the sim that got them into that sh**

however, basically you're right ...

_________________
How to fix F1:
1. Stop seeking consensuses on rules - it will always turn out to be the least favourible option for everyone involved...
2. Listen to the fans - there are plenty of them and they have good ideas...

Yes but that was because of a change in the fuel regs after they had started to design the car. When the FIA announced the change that area was locked in and it isn't as simple as just bolting in a bigger bag.

It wasn't as simple as a plain cock up on their behalf. There were other factors that led to it.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Was it their sim or a failure of the engine supplier to provide accurate economy data?

_________________

what you are talking about is the restriction of having only one chassis per year homologated with the FIA ... i don't know if this is still in place ... it would certainly be quite a task building a new car while the season is underway and thus would probably be easier to focus on the next year ... espacially with those upcoming changes for 2014...

_________________
How to fix F1:
1. Stop seeking consensuses on rules - it will always turn out to be the least favourible option for everyone involved...
2. Listen to the fans - there are plenty of them and they have good ideas...

last year rosbergs time was set in the 2011 car with blown difusser which was a couple seconds quicker than the 2012 cars.

I think what ever the times are its a better sign to be at the top than the bottom. Say jensons time of today was a 1.18. some of the other teams wouldnt be able to get to that time, even with new tyres and low fuel. therefore those teams know already that the mclaren is a faster car. the funny thing is, is that mclaren dont know that. the same situation can happen for long runs. if the lotus did a 10 lap long run in the 22s on hards, there wil be some teams who wouldnt be able to do that. but again lotus wouldnt have a clue.

If your a team, you can easily tell which cars are faster than you. but you dont know for sure which cars who you're faster than. if that makes sense.