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What do you think of Pat Symonds?
He made a mistake and served his time. Give him another chance 64%  64%  [ 49 ]
He's a known cheat and shouldn't be allowed back in the sport 17%  17%  [ 13 ]
Don't care either way 19%  19%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 77
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:52 pm 
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I asked people about this a couple years ago when Symonds started his rehabilitation process with some magazine columns and such. But now he's back in the paddock (Marussia) and is officially a fully-fledged F1 engineer again, I wondered what people think about it?

For those with a short memory, at the 2008 Singapore GP Nelson Piquet jnr deliberately crashed in order to help teammate Alonso win via a contrived strategy. Symonds admitted being in on it and has since served an FIA imposed 'ban' from F1.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:00 pm 
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To be honest, I'm okay with it. His actions were very ugly but he served his time. And he's a very good engineer so no wonder a team like Marussia would take him despite his train wreck of a reputation currently.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Once a cheat, always a cheat...the question is how much it was his decision.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:56 pm 
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I have no problem with him being allowed back. He's highly unlikely to do anything so silly again and has been appropriately punished.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Personally I'm glad to see him back. He's a very good engineer and I don't think he should be banned from the sport over one mistake, for which he has been punished.

Incidentally for the same reason I'm glad Mike Coughlan is back


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Once a cheat, always a cheat...the question is how much it was his decision.

1st you brand him cheat like he always does it and then you ask what was his role? How does that work exactly? If you dont know the whole story you should throw accusations like that. Probably he was under orders from Flavio. Probably he didnt agree to the arrangement but had to back down. Could be a possibilty.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:59 am 
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Race2win wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Once a cheat, always a cheat...the question is how much it was his decision.

1st you brand him cheat like he always does it and then you ask what was his role? How does that work exactly? If you dont know the whole story you should throw accusations like that. Probably he was under orders from Flavio. Probably he didnt agree to the arrangement but had to back down. Could be a possibilty.


Everyone in F1 could be branded a cheat in some respect they all do things they are not supposed to i have been reading the Bernie book No Angel and in there it says they all cheat just that Flavio and Pat got caught is all so i think it is great to see him back he is a great guy and very knowledgeable.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:46 am 
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I'm ok with it to a point. Its a different case to Flavio. Flavio was in charge of the team so ultimately the buck stopped with him.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:33 am 
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He did the time for his crime. Time to move on.

Hands up than the poster on here who hasn't made an ill judged mistake or even a deliberate act that wasn't within the bounds of the rules .. if such a person exists please, step forward and pick up the first stone.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:56 am 
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Bipolar_Lobster wrote:
He did the time for his crime. Time to move on.

Hands up than the poster on here who hasn't made an ill judged mistake or even a deliberate act that wasn't within the bounds of the rules .. if such a person exists please, step forward and pick up the first stone.


Exactly. He should know better now, he's done his time.

It's also easy to sit back and pass judgement


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:06 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm ok with it to a point. Its a different case to Flavio. Flavio was in charge of the team so ultimately the buck stopped with him.

For me it's different to Briatore too. Not only the responsibility aspect, but Symonds held his hands up, explained why he did it and was contrite. Briatore waved his arms about, denied everything and blamed everyone else.

I'm glad to see general support for Symonds. The poll results when I did this a couple of years ago surprised me by being so negative. Can't help but think he's a good egg who found himself in an almost impossible position and did something stupid (or allowed somethign stupid to happen).

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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

-Epicurus


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:12 am 
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Race2win wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Once a cheat, always a cheat...the question is how much it was his decision.

1st you brand him cheat like he always does it and then you ask what was his role? How does that work exactly? If you dont know the whole story you should throw accusations like that. Probably he was under orders from Flavio. Probably he didnt agree to the arrangement but had to back down. Could be a possibilty.


I didn't brand him a cheat, I just said that if someone cheats once they'll always be willing to do it again; which is to say that if he was guilty, he definitely shouldn't be allowed back.

Nobody in the general population will ever know the full story, I just don't see why someone convicted of cheating should be allowed back. Would Lance be welcomed back on Le Tour next year?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:05 pm 
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I would have liked a "not sure" option. Yes, he is a great engineer, yes, he put his hand up & owned up to it, yes, he has done his time, yes, other teams have cheated etc but we are talking about a really horendous incident here, hence I didn't vote :(


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Nobody in the general population will ever know the full story, I just don't see why someone convicted of cheating should be allowed back. Would Lance be welcomed back on Le Tour next year?


I was thinking about that myself earlier wondering why I felt differently in each case and concluded that the scale of the transgressions and actions of the individuals just couldn't be compared. As far as I know Pat Symonds was involved in a one off act of madness under who knows what kind of duress. Whilst his guilt is certain, I do not believe for a moment that he was the main orchestrator, or that he was involved in any kind of systematic cheating.

Lance Armstrong on the other hand was a willing participant in possibly the most organised and prolonged cheating seen in any sport. His shear arrogance is astounding and his attacks on those who knew the truth and dared to publicly confront him were despicable. His apparent "contrition" in the Oprah interviews was a joke. He has caused enormous damage to the sport of cycling and cast a shadow that will last a very long time. His lifetime ban is more than deserved.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:24 pm 
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I dont see that he did anything 99% of the paddock would not have in his situation. It was the Max v Dennis thing that made it what it was.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:26 pm 
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As someone else posted, maybe Symonds had little say in the 2008 thing.
He is a great engineer; pleased he is back.
Some of the dirty washing from some of the most well-known, famous people in F1 history was not just commercially driven, much was very personal and vindictive.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:20 pm 
I called that race as fixed the moment it ended, in fact I proposed the idea immediately after the German GP (5 races earlier) when Nelson Piquet was elevated from P16 to P1 due to a perfectly timed SC and would have won if not for a spirited Hamilton drive. I was laughed off the board at the time.

Is there a rule that says you can not deliberately crash?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Symonds doesn't seem like the sort of person who'd cheat, he's always struck me as a very straight up guy. I think his involvement in 2008 was so much to do with Flavio; I really don't want to see his face back in F1 again.

The Coughlan thing... I don't know to be honest. From what I've read he wasn't really under orders from anyone to do what he did? The guy is clearly talented but I wouldn't let him near my F1 team if I had one.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:32 pm 
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I don't have a problem with Symonds being back in F1, and he won't be at Marussia for long. Of all the prople invovled in that scandal, he was the most forthright and open about it once the truth was learned. He cooperated with the FAI. He seemed at the time to be genuinelly embarrased about the whole thing. Unlike the other main players, he had no personal motivation. Flavio was desperate to keep Fernando happy so he would stay at Renault; and Piquet, Jr., was desperate to stay at a better team than his driving warranted. Symonds had a moment of weakness when put under a lot of pressure by those two. I doubt his carreer would have turned out any better had he gone to the FAI and accused his team boss and second driver of hatching that plot, since he had no evidence to support the claim. Simply turning a blind eye to what he knew was going on would ultimately have been no better. All Symonds really did was suggest to Piquet where the best place to crash would be and then orchestrate some radio chatter to make it look like Alonso's pit decision immediately prior to Piquet's crash was made for legitimate reasons.

The big thing about "Crashgate" that still sticks in my craw is that the FAI let Fernando keep the win. I mean really, the driver is just one part of a team. That would be like having ten players on a soccer team tackle or physically restrain all the players on the opposing team so that the eleventh guy could score the winning goal and then still giving the eleventh guy credit for scoring that goal.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:46 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Is there a rule that says you can not deliberately crash?

Causing an accident is forbidden.
I don't believe there is a definition of accident in the rules as such, but I trust crashing your own car is also included.
Even the appearance of a lack of control over the car can lead to exclusion.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:00 am 
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Let me think of the best way to answer 'should Pat Symonds be given another chance' -


NO!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:10 am 
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Everyone deserves a second chance.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:32 am 
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Lojik wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Nobody in the general population will ever know the full story, I just don't see why someone convicted of cheating should be allowed back. Would Lance be welcomed back on Le Tour next year?


I was thinking about that myself earlier wondering why I felt differently in each case and concluded that the scale of the transgressions and actions of the individuals just couldn't be compared. As far as I know Pat Symonds was involved in a one off act of madness under who knows what kind of duress. Whilst his guilt is certain, I do not believe for a moment that he was the main orchestrator, or that he was involved in any kind of systematic cheating.

Lance Armstrong on the other hand was a willing participant in possibly the most organised and prolonged cheating seen in any sport. His shear arrogance is astounding and his attacks on those who knew the truth and dared to publicly confront him were despicable. His apparent "contrition" in the Oprah interviews was a joke. He has caused enormous damage to the sport of cycling and cast a shadow that will last a very long time. His lifetime ban is more than deserved.


Lance Armstrong's actions could potentially have lead to serious injury and death, not just of other competitors but spectators too?

Pat Symonds isn't simply guilty of cheating.


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