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 Post subject: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Lotus: Grsojean still not confirmed. Latest news is that they are considering Kobayashi.

Force India: Hulkenberg still needs to be replaced. Candidates that I heard circulating: Kobayashi, Sutil, Bianchi and the ex-STR drivers, even Narain. My bet is on Bianchi.

Caterham: hard to guess. Pic is already comfirmed so one of Heikki or Petrov needs to go. Van Der Garde is also an option. Maybe they are interested in Senna's money too. I wouldn't bet on this.

Marussia: well it would be a surprise if it's not going to be Max Chilton, they have a tradition to put rookies in the second seat next to Glock

HRT: they will only decide if their future is safe so no driver will be keen to drive there at the moment

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Amon wrote:
HRT: they will only decide if their future is safe so no driver will be keen to drive there at the moment

Well they just laid off their staff, so I doubt that they will be racing next year.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Your post is already flawed. Senna has a seat - that much we do know. It's a good seat to - something he was VERY happy to leave williams for. That means we're looking at Lotus or Force India.

HRT can be removed from the list given that they no longer have a single employee and it's too late to buy out, pay the fees, relocate, hire staff, pay off debt, design car, build car, get sponsors, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Senna has a seat? link please.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Alguersuari has one too apparently...maybe both are lying.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:47 pm 
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I'm not so sure he has one yet but does seem confident he has something, also usually if something has been agreed with any driver some media always gets it and leaks it first... We haven't seen this yet so.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:49 pm 
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rocks4brains wrote:
Alguersuari has one too apparently...maybe both are lying.

he said that mid season, bit premature really if you ask me latest he said he is getting frustrated because past performance doesn't count only what you can bring.... I found him average anyway so maybe they did take past performance into account :-)


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Just 'playing through' in my head who is available for FI, and came to the conclusion Alguersuari would be my choice from 'the pack' but wondered, depending on if they need to bring cash, Parfit would probably do a good job, especally as they have the Mclaren and Merc tieup

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:34 pm 
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moby wrote:
Just 'playing through' in my head who is available for FI, and came to the conclusion Alguersuari would be my choice from 'the pack' but wondered, depending on if they need to bring cash, Parfit would probably do a good job, especally as they have the Mclaren and Merc tieup


Paffett will never have a full-time drive in F1. He is a test driver.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:37 pm 
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And without confirmation from the teams, Senna and Alguersuari commenting that they have drives next season mean nothing. I always thought Algy was jumping the gun when he said he would be announcing his team soon, shows that circumstances change quickly and verbal agreements are nothing (look at how he was fired from TR; the team had told him he would drive for them in 2012). So though I believe Senna probably does have a seat sorted, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It only takes as good a driver with a bigger budget to show up and Senna's 'contract' could easily be ripped up.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:37 pm 
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theferret wrote:
moby wrote:
Just 'playing through' in my head who is available for FI, and came to the conclusion Alguersuari would be my choice from 'the pack' but wondered, depending on if they need to bring cash, Parfit would probably do a good job, especally as they have the Mclaren and Merc tieup


Paffett will never have a full-time drive in F1. He is a test driver.


For mclaren, who have a tieup with FI and Merc engines?

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:00 pm 
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MrMuttley wrote:
Senna has a seat? link please.

There's much talk about him getting the 2nd seat at FI. If so, good for him! :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Lotus: Grosjean
Force India: Alguersuari/Senna
Caterham: Petrov
Marussia: Chilton
HRT: Ma (if they are around)

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:29 am 
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the incubus wrote:
MrMuttley wrote:
Senna has a seat? link please.

There's much talk about him getting the 2nd seat at FI. If so, good for him! :thumbup:



Cool. I missed that little bit of paddock gossip. If he gets a seat with the FI team that works for me. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Just read an interesting rumor Algs has been told that he potentially has a seat at force India, but that the problem is they believe drivers of the equal abilities and more money are also vying for it and they have apparently told him if its the case that the other drivers accept then Alg will take a 3rd or reserve driver roll. The drivers in question are apparently senna and rogro, who are waiting to hear about the 2nd lotus seat before deciding on anything else.

Algs apparently told them of he isn't racing he isn't interested which is why he is testing DTM


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Officialmini drivers twitter has also posted the same rumor too, so must be doing the rounds


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Senna in a Lotus??? thats got to be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:13 pm 
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I doubt he will be he also probably doesn't want to agree a force India seat if he believes he has a chance to get in the lotus.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:15 pm 
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stevey wrote:
Senna in a Lotus??? thats got to be wrong.

Didn't see the last 8 rounds of 2011 then?

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
Just read an interesting rumor Algs has been told that he potentially has a seat at force India, but that the problem is they believe drivers of the equal abilities and more money are also vying for it and they have apparently told him if its the case that the other drivers accept then Alg will take a 3rd or reserve driver roll. The drivers in question are apparently senna and rogro, who are waiting to hear about the 2nd lotus seat before deciding on anything else.

Algs apparently told them of he isn't racing he isn't interested which is why he is testing DTM


Interesting one, thanks for sharing this.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:38 pm 
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RickM wrote:
Your post is already flawed. Senna has a seat - that much we do know. It's a good seat to - something he was VERY happy to leave williams for. That means we're looking at Lotus or Force India.

HRT can be removed from the list given that they no longer have a single employee and it's too late to buy out, pay the fees, relocate, hire staff, pay off debt, design car, build car, get sponsors, etc.


Senna didn't leave Williams. Williams kicked him out.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:54 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
stevey wrote:
Senna in a Lotus??? thats got to be wrong.

Didn't see the last 8 rounds of 2011 then?

:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:47 pm 
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It's interesting in reading the rumors and comments/updates from different drivers, in that it seems like right now its a matter of dominos with possible agreements reached but teams waiting to see if they will get their preferred driver before going with one of the others they've talked with.

So I'm wondering.... who is the first domino they are waiting on?

Team wise, I can see drivers waiting on Lotus to decide its 2nd seat with that most likely being the preferred choice of every available driver.

But the driver part of the equation seems the most difficult to figure out.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:24 pm 
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I think its down to cash they don't view the midfield drivers as being able to influence the wcc as much so say algs sen kob bia kov although some will outscore others in the same car will it be enough to jump up 2-3 places in the wcc to get the money that would cover the potential sponsorship. So say algs brings just an example £8m but senna brings £20m would the points algs get be enough over what senna would get to justify passing up on £12m, i like how teams say we don't want pay drivers we go for the best package... Translates into we want the best balance of cash and performance, the less cash they bring they must be drastically better than the ones that do if they are of similar abilities the one with sponsor will win out. I think it all falls on what lotus decide then others will quickly drop into place


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
It's interesting in reading the rumors and comments/updates from different drivers, in that it seems like right now its a matter of dominos with possible agreements reached but teams waiting to see if they will get their preferred driver before going with one of the others they've talked with.

So I'm wondering.... who is the first domino they are waiting on?

Team wise, I can see drivers waiting on Lotus to decide its 2nd seat with that most likely being the preferred choice of every available driver.

But the driver part of the equation seems the most difficult to figure out.


Would be interesting if, say, Force India were faster than Lotus next year. They were faster in Brazil so why not?


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:31 pm 
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But i would have though kov would have a drive by now if he was going to get one as he has said he wont go out and get sponsorship, if a team wanted to take someone on performance rather than sponsor package as well he would surely have been signed by now, but i view it along these lines
lotus: must decide between gro, sen, kov, kob, alg
Force India: waiting to hear who gets lotus seat and will probably go for algs, senna
Caterham: waiting on Force India to decide on gvg or have others with backing and more f1 exp like sen or alg


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:32 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
But i would have though kov would have a drive by now if he was going to get one as he has said he wont go out and get sponsorship, if a team wanted to take someone on performance rather than sponsor package as well he would surely have been signed by now, but i view it along these lines
lotus: must decide between gro, sen, kov, kob, alg
Force India: waiting to hear who gets lotus seat and will probably go for algs, senna
Caterham: waiting on Force India to decide on gvg or have others with backing and more f1 exp like sen or alg


I know it's easy but you forgot Di Resta.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:33 pm 
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stevey wrote:
Senna in a Lotus??? thats got to be wrong.

More wrong than the end of 2011.... or more wrong than Senna in a Williams.... :uhoh:

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
potter84 wrote:
But i would have though kov would have a drive by now if he was going to get one as he has said he wont go out and get sponsorship, if a team wanted to take someone on performance rather than sponsor package as well he would surely have been signed by now, but i view it along these lines
lotus: must decide between gro, sen, kov, kob, alg
Force India: waiting to hear who gets lotus seat and will probably go for algs, senna
Caterham: waiting on Force India to decide on gvg or have others with backing and more f1 exp like sen or alg


I know it's easy but you forgot Di Resta.

true they haven't officially announced it yet but already confirmed his pr commitments in feb for FI so i am pretty sure unless he is holding out for lotus its a done deal


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:46 pm 
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It probably won't happen but it'll be interesting to see how Senna performs if he does get a seat in Lotus. He seemed to be improving towards the end of the season this year.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:13 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
But i would have though kov would have a drive by now if he was going to get one as he has said he wont go out and get sponsorship, if a team wanted to take someone on performance rather than sponsor package as well he would surely have been signed by now, but i view it along these lines
lotus: must decide between gro, sen, kov, kob, alg
Force India: waiting to hear who gets lotus seat and will probably go for algs, senna
Caterham: waiting on Force India to decide on gvg or have others with backing and more f1 exp like sen or alg


I think you're probably right with Force India. I believe it was on the totalf1 site or pitpass site that Alg said he was just waiting to hear back from the team, which makes me think the choice must be Senna, then Alguersuari if it cannot get Bruno. (Though I wonder if Grosjean might not be of interest if he's out at Lotus as his strength is speed, and that seemed to be where Force India made strides late in the year, he could be a driver to maximize that... if he can learn to stay on the tract and stop hitting moving objects.)


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:00 pm 
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i think that Bruno Senna would be actually a good package both for Lotus and Force India. (they are both in financial problems)

He brings 20 + mln; he showed very good racecraft (10 times in points, starting from the back) but he failed to maximize Pirelli's potential, expecially in qualify.
Next year, Pirelli's performance window will be extended, so i think that he can have a big step forward in single lap performance too.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:03 pm 
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So it seems we're basically looking at three of Grosjean, Senna, Alguersuari, Kobayashi and Kovalainen filling out the seats at Lotus, Force India and Caterham, and them being filled in that order. Perhaps including variables like Sutil/Bianchi at Force India, Van Der Garde at Caterham (although I still maintain that would be a really poor decision, but that's another topic) and maybe even Valsecchi with Lotus (based purely on him having an impressive YDT with them, as I've seen nothing actually linking him with that seat, or indeed any 2013 seat).

Grosjean/Lotus, Senna/Force India, Alguersuari/Caterham for me, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Senna/Caterham and Alguersuari/Force India.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:17 pm 
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To those saying Jaime was testing DTM cars, he tweeted something about knowing nothing of these tests, and that his sole focus was F1. Whether that was totally accurate or not I can't say, but it's his words.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:36 pm 
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According to Autosport, Grosjean's destiny to be defined this week.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Totalf1 broke down the battle for the final seats this way, earlier today...

Lotus contenders: Grosjean, D'Ambrosio, Kovalainen

Force India: Sutil, Alguesuari, Senna, Buemi, Bianchi

Caterham: van der Garde, Kovalainen, Petrov, Senna, Kobi, Ma

Marussia: Chilton, Petrov, Kobi, Ma


That's really different than how I was thinking, in that Senna would not be in contention for a seat at Lotus. (Which if also true, would mean he wasn't holding up Alg at Force India as I would think Senna would prefer that seat over Caterham... so if he's not #1 on FI's list, does that make Sutil the 1st consideration?)

If that's an accurate picture, I'd also think it means Lotus is very divided over Grosjean's future. They certainly wouldn't be waiting on D'Ambrosio before making a decision on Grosjean... and other than maybe doubting an All-Finn tandem and that it might be a negative to broadening sponsorship, I wouldn't see a hold up with Heikki... if Lotus wanted him, surely he would go if its down to Lotus or Caterham as his choices. So it wouldn't seem that its Kovalainen's choice to make at Lotus or it would be done already. Which I'm guessing makes Romain's future the hold up if I'm reading it right.


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Among the young 9and not so young) 'also ran' drivers, one cannot help getting the feeling that some have potential to achieve something worthwhile in a good car. For me, Hulkenburg, Algersuari and now Senna give that feeling. I think those drivers deserve a chance.

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
Totalf1 broke down the battle for the final seats this way, earlier today...

Lotus contenders: Grosjean, D'Ambrosio, Kovalainen

Force India: Sutil, Alguesuari, Senna, Buemi, Bianchi

Caterham: van der Garde, Kovalainen, Petrov, Senna, Kobi, Ma

Marussia: Chilton, Petrov, Kobi, Ma


That's really different than how I was thinking, in that Senna would not be in contention for a seat at Lotus. (Which if also true, would mean he wasn't holding up Alg at Force India as I would think Senna would prefer that seat over Caterham... so if he's not #1 on FI's list, does that make Sutil the 1st consideration?)

If that's an accurate picture, I'd also think it means Lotus is very divided over Grosjean's future. They certainly wouldn't be waiting on D'Ambrosio before making a decision on Grosjean... and other than maybe doubting an All-Finn tandem and that it might be a negative to broadening sponsorship, I wouldn't see a hold up with Heikki... if Lotus wanted him, surely he would go if its down to Lotus or Caterham as his choices. So it wouldn't seem that its Kovalainen's choice to make at Lotus or it would be done already. Which I'm guessing makes Romain's future the hold up if I'm reading it right.

i find a few of these hard yo understand D'Amb was less than impressive during his outing at Monza in a strong lotus and sutil although liked by force India wont be able to take part most likely in 3 gps


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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:28 pm 
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sultanofhyd wrote:
RickM wrote:
Your post is already flawed. Senna has a seat - that much we do know. It's a good seat to - something he was VERY happy to leave williams for. That means we're looking at Lotus or Force India.

HRT can be removed from the list given that they no longer have a single employee and it's too late to buy out, pay the fees, relocate, hire staff, pay off debt, design car, build car, get sponsors, etc.


Senna didn't leave Williams. Williams kicked him out.


Do you actually have hard evidence of that, or are you basing it on the media speculation? Even if they did 'kick him out', why exactly would that matter? What the heck has that got to do with my post?

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 Post subject: Re: The empty spots...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:55 pm 
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RickM wrote:
sultanofhyd wrote:
RickM wrote:
Your post is already flawed. Senna has a seat - that much we do know. It's a good seat to - something he was VERY happy to leave williams for. That means we're looking at Lotus or Force India.

HRT can be removed from the list given that they no longer have a single employee and it's too late to buy out, pay the fees, relocate, hire staff, pay off debt, design car, build car, get sponsors, etc.


Senna didn't leave Williams. Williams kicked him out.


Do you actually have hard evidence of that, or are you basing it on the media speculation? Even if they did 'kick him out', why exactly would that matter? What the heck has that got to do with my post?


I think Senna deserves a seat, but I also think RoGro and Koba come ahead of him, perhaps Senna is best off proving himself at one of the rear-end teams.


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