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people say senna's 1993 performance was his best of career. alonso best season so far maybe 2012? both were in uncompetitive cars yet fought for the championship. both finished the car where it did not belong. is alonso good as senna? or is alonso the new senna and lewis got confused?

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Bruno Senna is the new Senna Alonso is Alonso, and while I am sure that you can find similarities with other past drivers (and the same goes for other current drivers) I think he has his own peculiarities too.



(Having said that, if you are up for some Alonso high praise by means of that comparison, check this link http://www.radiosport.co.nz/opinion/bob ... -26jul2012)

It must be pointed out that car performance was far more disparate back then in the era before engine parity. McLaren went from the mega Honda powerplants, which they had previously used to great effect, to the relatively underpowered Ford engine which was no match for Williams' Renault, (or even Benetton's more powerful Ford's). Thus the McLaren was at a disadvantage most of the time in 'normal' races. It was so bad Senna was on a race-by-race contract with the team!

These days the top 9 teams are relatively close in performance with nowhere near the difference seen back then. Alonso might complain that his Ferrari was 'slow' this year, but it's all relative. In most races he was able to race at a similar or faster pace than the leading team that weekend.

"Is Alonso as good as Senna?"
LOL

I don't think this has been Alonso's best season at all. No fewer errors than normal and by the last two races he was slower than Massa. It's all relative, an average year from Alonso is obviously way more than virtually anyone else can muster at their best, but I think we've got a bit carried away with the Ferrari's a dog/Alonso's a magician thing this year. Imagine how different our perception would be if Massa had started with the form he found at the end of the year. It would make no difference to the car or Alonso, but things would seem very different.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

Interesting to read that article now at the end of the season. I recall at the same time reading a number of similar articles by journalists such as Andrew Benson and Peter Windsor singing Alonso's praises just as highly. At the time I had to agree with them, I thought Alonso's performances up to then was quite possibly the best F1 season I'd seen a driver put together.

What happened since then though? Bad luck of course, (Belgium, not so much Japan), but I can't remember a stellar drive from him since Germany. Was he conditioned to 'cruise and collect' during the latter part of the season as in 2005-06?

It can even be argued, perhaps unfairly, that Massa outperformed him in the last 2 races. I'd hope he's reflecting on this at the end of the season rather than clinging to any vestiges of hope in a doomed appeal of the Brazilian race result.

Honest question: knowing the race pace of the Ferrari was often very good, on which occasion did he put the car "where it did not belong"? And by which standard are you measuring that?

one could argue that since Monza/Japan bar Abu Dhabi/Korea Massa had Alonso in sight with the last two races being very obvious.

No, sennas ford McLaren was beyond poor Alonso didn't out perform his car in quali it was bad race pace the Ferrari has been good and towards the end of the season massa started to out perform him, and the only reason it went down to the last race was because of massa and Ferrari, massa could have taken Alonso in a few races but didn't let him past in a few races (rbr did their drivers too) and took a 5 place grid drop just so it would bump Alonso to the clean side of the track and get him near the red bulls. Alonso has performed superbly but not to the degree it is being portrayed in afraid, and i have grown to like him this year, and am not keen on vettel.

No.

Go back to early days of Senna especially his brilliant Monaco race, while other cars were struggling fro grip, crashing off including race winners. Senna was blitzing fast, is Alonso like Senna? well last time Alonso won in a car not capable of podium spots was due to race fixing. Senna was literally THAT close to winning in a car which Alonso drove a few years back.

Senna didnt need a race fix or number 1 status, he actually wanted to be treated EQUALLY especially by the FIA.

Can't believe this thread has even started! Vettel and Senna in same category... yes. Alonso and Senna... Don't think so some how.

What is Bentley smoking? It's too powerful.

I guess you guys weren't happy about who won the championship this year.
In the end Vettel has the same number of championships, all won during years where the competition is arguably the best in history.

I think there is a big difference in the conditions in which Senna won his championships (compared to Vettel). When did Vettel had the best driver of the grid as teammate? If Seb would have won this championship with Alonso on the same team (and car), then he could, maybe, be comparable to the great Ayrton.

Honestly, after reading several topics and posts here, I don't understand how some people are quick to write off Alonso's season just because Massa was good in the last two race weekends, and in the same breath they praise Vettel despite he didn't perform any better than Webber until halfway of the season. Yet somehow Alonso is the one underperforming on the accound of two race weekends and Vettel wasn't with his half a season rough patch.

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Alonso is no Ayrton, but this year he really was fantastic.

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All Time Favorite: Ayrton Senna

Others: Damon Hill
Montoya

Current: Lewis Hamilition

Is Alonso as good as Senna? No.

He's been brilliant this year, but over their whole careers, Senna's been the better one.

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this.

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Some might laugh, but there's few more qualified to say anything of the kind than this man...
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 46722.html

I think you've got it. Not only in 2005-06 he was cruising to the title, in 2010 he didn't target victories, but podiums. Recipe for disaster it turned out. This year he was behind yet still either realised his car wouldn't be up to the job for a win or he was convinced Vettel would have a DNF. Poor decision to not focus on you own job this time.

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"We can not drive slower, just to make the races more exciting." Alain Prost

A big thumbs up to that, yep, Prost was definitely the best on the grid, not Senna.

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"We can not drive slower, just to make the races more exciting." Alain Prost

ok i might not be correct but some races that spring to mind are malaysia, valencia, monaco, canada (until the pitstop), singapore, korea, india (he was very good) and abu dhabi.

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Alonso not in Senna's league and nor are Vettel and Hamilton. Watched Senna again yesterday and some of his drives were just jaw dropping. The on board footage is amazing

Alonso was fighting for the win in every race he could. Did you not watch Abu D when he chased kimi down to the last lap? He's not going to give up a win if he can get it. If the car's not fast enough (Austin) then why go around risking your car when you know this is your maximum position. Every driver targets victories, but realistically, victories were out of the question for Alonso. With the points system how it is, they aren't going to give away 7 points.

2010 was abit different. The RB (when it stayed intact) was far and away the fastest car that year. Second best was all they could hope for. I think it was Hungary, when they locked out the front row by 2 seconds or something ridiculous.

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Forza Fernando !

First of, 1993 is not 2012.

Second, it is hard to see how good or bad was McLaren 1993 (MP-whatever) because Senna's teammate (Michael Andretti) showed very poor performance for most of the season. It wasn't untill the arrival of Mika Häkkinen that we saw an interesting McLaren Ford. If a rookie (as good as Mika) was able to deliver as he did, then the McLaren was good enough.

And third, last Monday I watched again 1993 season review because Alonso's performance this year reminded me of Senna's last year at McLaren.

This is exactly my point. Surely the mega-Alonso of earlier races such as Valencia, where he made sure he found some way of passing rivals and taking advantage of every situation that presented itself to him, would have somehow managed to find a way to win? I know it was only one decisive moment in a season full of them, but looking back he must regret not being to take full advantage of Red Bull/Vettel and McLaren/Hamilton dropping the ball so spectacularly.

The Ferrari & Lotus I would consider to be 2 extremely similar cars in performance when looked at over the whole season, so to lose out to an essentially equal rival must be disappointing.

No it wasn't, he won the very next race after that in the same car.



Gonna have to disagree with this too. I distinctly remember him making big errors at least once in previous years: crashing in Monaco in 2010, spinning the car in the wet several times in '10/'11 (including the last race I went to in Canada in 2011), and missing out on Q3 a few times in 2010-11. He didn't make any of these mistakes this year. In fact, I think one spin in a wet practice session this year is the only mistake he made in 20 race weekends, and the couple of times he went off track last weekend in the wet but those didn't ultimately cost him any places in the race.

Obviously, he made major mistakes in previous years as well (Brazil '03, Hungary '06 practice, Monaco and Canada 2009, several incidents in 2007)

I think anyone who watched every race of each of his seasons would immediately answer "2012" when asked which year was his most error-free.

I didn't see Senna in 1993 but all I know is that since starting to watch F1 in '03 I have never seen anyone drive so well throughout an entire season like Alonso in 2012. I really feel it deep down and as a fan I feel very proud. But unfortunately that's why it hurts even more that he didn't win the championship.

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I am not going to compare who is the better out of Senna and Alonso because that argument will go round in circles and derail the thread. There is no way of knowing who is the better, but this will be debated to death I'm sure for the next 50 years. People still argue about Fangio vs Moss after all.

Both 1993 and 2012 were outstanding seasons by drivers who dragged cars into results that they otherwise should not ordinarily have been. Senna was at his peak, I feel this has been Alonso's best season so far even though it has not yielded his best return.

I'm surprised Schumacher's 1998 season has not been mentioned, that was also outstanding and I would certainly place it in the same bracket as the above.

Well, I don't agree. Take Valencia for example: the Ferrari had good race pace and he got the benefit of Webber starting from all the way back, Vettel dropping out and the SC closing up the pack.

So that list would need to be revised.

Agreed with the above.

I think that each driver is their own person. no need to announce anyone as the "next anyone." Vettel is compared to MSC in many quarters. He has neither the personality nor affect on performance that MSC had due to in season testing. Whether Vettel has his pace or ability to challenge a car with any kinda of top 4 pace is also questionable...

The comments on the poorness of the McLaren's customer Ford engine was valid, given the fact that engines are very matched nowadays. However, no-one mentioned that we are deep into an aero formula (no longer an engine one), and that this heavily costs Alonso each race, as he cannot qualify at the front. Everyone has their own particular and unique battles to fight.

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Forza Ferrari

2010 was not a great year for Alonso tbh he made a lot of mistakes for him. 05 he crashed in Canada which was it and 06 was almost error free. 2012 though has been a hugely impressive year.

If the category is number of WDC(3) won, then Vettel and Senna are in the same category. Why do you laugh like retards then?

its easy to look at numbers but you cant get a feel for how good that person is on numbers alone, as has been said senna went as a rookie to a team with the number 1 driver in the world and took him on they had great battles in the same car, no offence to mark Webber but he was or never has been the best driver, vettel isn't looked on in the same breath because even though the McLaren was the dominant car in sennas championship period, he went against the best in the same car, vettel has had a dominant car in my view since mid 2009 and although this year has been up and down over all consistently this year too. Has he ever had the best in the same car as him? No has he had help from STR cars at points too? Yes, even Schumacher let him past when they were meant to be racing for position. Ferrari have been just as bad this season too

Because Vettel always had Webber as teammate. Do you think Webber is in the same league as Prost?

As for the OP's question no, I think what Senna did in 1993 was even greater. The Williams of Prost (and Hill) was so dominating that Senna winning 5 races and finishing runner-up beating Hill, Schumi etc was an even major fear to what Alonso did in 2012. I don't think Red Bull showed such dominance this year.

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F1 fan since 1989

Yes Red Bull alone wasn't that dominant. But McLaren was also a major force and although they lacked reliability or discipline they were still faster than Ferrari in terms of outright speed. They got 6 wins.

TBH though I didn't see 1993 so I'm not in a position to compare. Senna surely gets his reputation for a reason. It just makes me sad when people don't want to acknowledge what a great job Alonso did this year. Senna is regarded by most as the best of all time so I wouldn't compare Alonso to him.

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Senna is better than Alonso because he was an extremely good qualifier, I don't hink Alonso once put in a mega lap in qualifying this year. You never expect Alonso to to some how put the Ferrari in the top 3 with just an ultimate lap, but Senna was another story.