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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Its on here too.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/now-k ... -at-lotus/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
sultanofhyd wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Because we all know KK never does stupid things, go for ambitious overtakes, go crazy in the start or do any Banzai/kamikaze moves. stable he is indeed


Enough with the sarcasm. Kobayashi has been involved in less incidents than Alonso, Vettel, Webber, Massa, Hamilton, Button since he started his F1 career.


Sense of Humor meter gone?


There is no humour in his post, only misinformation.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Your taking it to seriously, it was quoted as a dig towards Romain, as a joke.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Brake Dust wrote:

I have translated Kulta's article to which the above was referring sorry for spelling and grammar.

Kobayashi's target to be Räikkönen's team mate
This year's target for the Lotus racing team owned by Gerard Lopez was fourth place in the constructor's championship - and that was accomplished by Kimi Räikkönen alone getting more points than the fifth placed Mercedes.

Lopez adjusted next year's target straight away to third place in the competition between the teams.

Each placing at the front brings a larger share of the tv-money pot shared by Bernie Ecclestone's company. Supposedly third place gets you ten million dollards more than fourth place.

Lopez is more than happy after getting Räikkönen to continue his F1-career by at least another year.

- Kimi becomes expensive for us, but on the other hand the points he brings makes us more successful in the constructor's championship, which bring also more money for the team, Lopez reminds us.

Räikkönen got 63.3 per cent of Lotus' points. Romain Grosjean got to the finish line only twelve times out of 20 races and in the points ten times.

Lopez haven't straight away offered an extension contract for the super fast, but accident prone french man. When the effort is in the constructor's championship, there are also other options to consider to bring more reliability into bringing the car to the finish line.

According to Turun Sanomat's information, Kamui Kobayashi who lost his place at Sauber to Esteban Gutierrez, has set his hopes in continuing his F1 career in none other than Lotus.

The Japanese is striving to collect a personal support package to offer alongside his contract. As Räikkönen is after Kobayashi the most popular F1 driver in Japan, this kind of partnership could well help in getting financial support from the corporate world in Japan.

Lotus does already have Japanese sponsors.

Kobayashi has raced in 60 GP's and his best result is third place in Japan this year. He is 26 years old, the same as Grosjean.

Grosjean is still the top name as candidates for Räikkönen's team mate. Oil giant Total is supporting the French driver by paying Lotus an extra five million euros as long as Grosjean is racing.

Of course the Lotus seat is coveted by other drivers as well, but the final choice will likely be between Grosjean and Kobayashi.

Turun Sanomat

HEIKKI KULTA

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Crossing my fingers for Kobayashi.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Would love this to be true. Lotus/Kimi/KK would pretty much be my F1 dream team.

I don't want to lose RoGro from F1 as I think he is a good driver. However I think Kamui is a better driver and I want him to lose his place even less.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:06 pm 
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mac_d wrote:
I'd hire Kamui over RoGro.

Kamui is probably very cheap (given it's this seat or out of F1), has some solid experience, hasn't suffered a raceban recently, possibly opens the car up to more Oriental advertising stuff.

RoGro has had 2 chances, and while I believe he is a fast driver, I don't particularly think he is a good race driver. He is either crashing or getting so far out the way to avoid an incident that he's wasting his time.


I'd like this to be true.

Grosjean has very serious pace. He deserves another chance. Vettel was also called crash kid, but he had pace. Koba had 4 chances and his driving wasn't faultless either. The oriental sponsorship is yet to materialize.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:11 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
mac_d wrote:
I'd hire Kamui over RoGro.

Kamui is probably very cheap (given it's this seat or out of F1), has some solid experience, hasn't suffered a raceban recently, possibly opens the car up to more Oriental advertising stuff.

RoGro has had 2 chances, and while I believe he is a fast driver, I don't particularly think he is a good race driver. He is either crashing or getting so far out the way to avoid an incident that he's wasting his time.


I'd like this to be true.

Grosjean has very serious pace. He deserves another chance. Vettel was also called crash kid, but he had pace. Koba had 4 chances and his driving wasn't faultless either. The oriental sponsorship is yet to materialize.


With all due respect vettel and kamui were never half as accident prone as grosjean.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:19 pm 
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If this happens, to be honest I would be happy if Kamui kept it for more than a year or didn't.

If he keeps it for more than a year keeping close to Kimi and moving Lotus a spot higher in the constructors, he's proven himself to be one of the best drivers alongside Kimi and will have a strong career following.

If he sinks, his strong performances vs Trulli, Heidfeld, Pedro and Perez will be shown to just have been because of weaker teammates rather than his own ability, so doesn't deserve to be in F1.

I have every belief the former will happen but I'd be happy if the latter were to happen too. Either way there won't be an air of unfulfilled potential, unless he lost his seat to a pay driver the season after.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:33 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
mac_d wrote:
I'd hire Kamui over RoGro.

Kamui is probably very cheap (given it's this seat or out of F1), has some solid experience, hasn't suffered a raceban recently, possibly opens the car up to more Oriental advertising stuff.

RoGro has had 2 chances, and while I believe he is a fast driver, I don't particularly think he is a good race driver. He is either crashing or getting so far out the way to avoid an incident that he's wasting his time.


I'd like this to be true.

Grosjean has very serious pace. He deserves another chance. Vettel was also called crash kid, but he had pace. Koba had 4 chances and his driving wasn't faultless either. The oriental sponsorship is yet to materialize.


He's had about 5 chances, his pace is okay but thats it, he's the worse racer ever, he needs to be removed ASAP, he's not F1 material.

Concussion wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
mac_d wrote:
I'd hire Kamui over RoGro.

Kamui is probably very cheap (given it's this seat or out of F1), has some solid experience, hasn't suffered a raceban recently, possibly opens the car up to more Oriental advertising stuff.

RoGro has had 2 chances, and while I believe he is a fast driver, I don't particularly think he is a good race driver. He is either crashing or getting so far out the way to avoid an incident that he's wasting his time.


I'd like this to be true.

Grosjean has very serious pace. He deserves another chance. Vettel was also called crash kid, but he had pace. Koba had 4 chances and his driving wasn't faultless either. The oriental sponsorship is yet to materialize.


With all due respect vettel and kamui were never half as accident prone as grosjean.



Yup, Romain is in incidents almost every race, mainly all can be avoided or his fault, he's just a big repair bill and costs the team in the standings, he just don't have what it takes in F1.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Grosjean could do with another year or two at the back of the grid to learn how to race properly.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Ja'a wrote:
I just want to see Romain in Lotus for at least 1 more season to see if he really cut in F1.


+1

I think the lad has a lot more to offer.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
mac_d wrote:
I'd hire Kamui over RoGro.

Kamui is probably very cheap (given it's this seat or out of F1), has some solid experience, hasn't suffered a raceban recently, possibly opens the car up to more Oriental advertising stuff.

RoGro has had 2 chances, and while I believe he is a fast driver, I don't particularly think he is a good race driver. He is either crashing or getting so far out the way to avoid an incident that he's wasting his time.


I'd like this to be true.

Grosjean has very serious pace. He deserves another chance. Vettel was also called crash kid, but he had pace. Koba had 4 chances and his driving wasn't faultless either. The oriental sponsorship is yet to materialize.


He's had about 5 chances, his pace is okay but thats it, he's the worse racer ever, he needs to be removed ASAP, he's not F1 material.

Concussion wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
mac_d wrote:
I'd hire Kamui over RoGro.

Kamui is probably very cheap (given it's this seat or out of F1), has some solid experience, hasn't suffered a raceban recently, possibly opens the car up to more Oriental advertising stuff.

RoGro has had 2 chances, and while I believe he is a fast driver, I don't particularly think he is a good race driver. He is either crashing or getting so far out the way to avoid an incident that he's wasting his time.


I'd like this to be true.

Grosjean has very serious pace. He deserves another chance. Vettel was also called crash kid, but he had pace. Koba had 4 chances and his driving wasn't faultless either. The oriental sponsorship is yet to materialize.


With all due respect vettel and kamui were never half as accident prone as grosjean.



Yup, Romain is in incidents almost every race, mainly all can be avoided or his fault, he's just a big repair bill and costs the team in the standings, he just don't have what it takes in F1.

What 5 chances are you talking about? 6 collisions and 2 spins in 26 races, it's certainly not every race. Vettel had 4 collision in first 26 races.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:59 pm 
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I hated Grosjean when he was at Renault, seemed like a waste of space. But this year at Lotus he has shown on quite a few occasions that he can match or sometimes even better the pace of Raikkonen. He has definitely made more than his fair share of big errors but I think it would be a shame to lose a driver with so much potential. As much as I'd like to see Kobayashi get a drive, I think that Grosjean has more potential to develop and become a great.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Darkarium wrote:
I hated Grosjean when he was at Renault, seemed like a waste of space. But this year at Lotus he has shown on quite a few occasions that he can match or sometimes even better the pace of Raikkonen. He has definitely made more than his fair share of big errors but I think it would be a shame to lose a driver with so much potential. As much as I'd like to see Kobayashi get a drive, I think that Grosjean has more potential to develop and become a great.


If Grosjean can sort his consistency out, he's going to be a great driver. Kobayashi has roughly the same traits as Grosjean, but Grosjean seems to be a bit quicker. I wouldn't exactly complain about Räikkönen/Kobayashi, and it's an interesting combo, but it looks like Grosjean is "Lotus' future driver" and he's the most likely candidate.

However, Sauber kicked out Kobayashi. I wonder what they would think if Lotus took him on board? I still don't think they will, though.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Grosjean could do with another year or two at the back of the grid to learn how to race properly.


If this happens he is probably the luckiest driver in f1. In my 13 years of watching f1 I've never seen a driver drive so badly and is still given another chance the following year.

And unlike other drivers who are "deemed" crash-happy by some here, most of gro's accidents happened in the 1st lap or 1st corner, indicating an obvious lack of spatial awareness in close quarter situations.

I refrained from commenting on gro's performance throughout this season because I was supporting lotus but looking back now his driving was just downright awful.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Grosjean appears to be the faster of the two, but he kept on crashing after his race ban. He’s had plenty of chances and he hasn’t used them. Still a tough decision, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Lotus dropped him.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Grosjean is decent but I don't think he extracted as much from that Lotus as he could of had. Its a race winning car and a car that could of easily won 2-3 races this year in addition to Abu Dhabi. Grosjean actually could of won Valencia if not for his problem but I don't remember any other standout performances from him including his podiums once of which is because RBR and Ferrari made a bad strategy call (Canada). KK on the other hand had the fantastic podium in Japan (fending off a fast Mclaren in the process) had a nice 4th place finish in Germany and superb grid positions in numerous races and basically matched his teammates points total all in a slower car compared to the Renault. Grosjean is decent I think KK can extract more out of the car then him though. I wouldn't mind if either gets the seat and would miss both if one had to leave.


Last edited by theman28 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:08 pm 
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The way I see it grojean's "speed" is a myth because he was never really fast in races which indicates that he setup his car to suit qualifying better.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:26 pm 
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As above, his speed that everyone talks about is bull, he has good qualifying pace, but when it comes to the race events is 90% of the time slower than Kimi and has the worse race craft of any driver. He's been awful this year and you cannot defend his season, because the incidents and standings don't lie, and they tell us he's a very average driver who is prone to incidents. All he's done is cost Lotus millions in repair bills and championship standing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:48 pm 
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I hope both can stay in F1 next year. My preference would be to see KK at Lotus and RoGro in the second Force India seat. I'd love to see how KK compares to Kimi in a good car and how DiResta and RoGro compare in a decent midfield car.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Concussion wrote:
The way I see it grojean's "speed" is a myth because he was never really fast in races which indicates that he setup his car to suit qualifying better.

There is such a thing as Too fast, and when you go too fast, you are quicker than others, but dont finish

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:05 pm 
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moby wrote:
Concussion wrote:
The way I see it grojean's "speed" is a myth because he was never really fast in races which indicates that he setup his car to suit qualifying better.

There is such a thing as Too fast, and when you go too fast, you are quicker than others, but dont finish


Sounds a bit like clutching at straws to me.

I don't think Romain has genuinely outpaced Kimi in any race other than Canada this season. The only other race RoGro finished ahead of Kimi was China when Kimi's tyres fell apart at the end. He has some tallent but he has been nowhere near Kimi on race pace most of the year.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:08 pm 
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DaveStebbins wrote:
I hope both can stay in F1 next year. My preference would be to see KK at Lotus and RoGro in the second Force India seat. I'd love to see how KK compares to Kimi in a good car and how DiResta and RoGro compare in a decent midfield car.

Just thinking of exactly the same before I saw your post. I'd hate to see Both of them without a seat

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:36 pm 
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I think Kimi and Heikki would be great... but two Fins on one team? Kamui opens that who Eastern Asian area and perhaps money too...

They say he raised $1 mill towards his drive. I am guessing if he can raise enough to cover his salary he might have a shot


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Hakkattack wrote:
I think Kimi and Heikki would be great... but two Fins on one team? Kamui opens that who Eastern Asian area and perhaps money too...

They say he raised $1 mill towards his drive. I am guessing if he can raise enough to cover his salary he might have a shot


I'd have thought that was pretty much a given as only he can dictate his salary demands. It would be utterly ridculous to raise $1m in sponsorship and not get a drive because he was demanding a $2m salary.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Dam_Noir wrote:
I would feel bad for Ro Gro if this was true but he's had 2 chances to prove himself in Formula One now and for all his raw speed his lack of spacial awareness isn't acceptable at the pinnicle of motorsport.

Personally I feel losing Kamui would be greater loss to Formula One than Ro Gro so I would be happy seeing him behind the wheel of a Lotus.


:thumbup: :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Hakkattack wrote:
I think Kimi and Heikki would be great... but two Fins on one team? Kamui opens that who Eastern Asian area and perhaps money too...

They say he raised $1 mill towards his drive. I am guessing if he can raise enough to cover his salary he might have a shot

Heikki seems like a nice chap but he didn't exactly set the world on fire the last time he was in a competitive car. I'd be absolutely amazed if he got the Lotus seat and I'd question the wisdom of that decision.

Kamui is sporadic but he's shown some pretty decent overtaking moves and seems to have a racing head. No idea what his ultimate speed is but I'd say he's done enough to show he can cut it in F1. I quite like Romain but it cannot be denied he's cost Lotus both points and money this year. He has good one lap speed but seems inordinately error prone. Think he still has something to show but maybe a season in a team further from the front might do him some good.

I think Romain will stay at Lotus but if they take Kamui then I wouldn't be surprised to see Romain in a Force India next year


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Image

Done deal.

Jokes aside, I'd like to see Koba at Lotus. He would fit in imo, and could learn a lot from Kimi. Would be pretty cool for Kamui actually, few weeks ago everyone felt sorry for him, now he got a change to drive for almost-top team.. Would be neat :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Maybe he will get a shot like Satrou Nakajima did...

Kimi and Kamui? I like it already!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:54 pm 
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sultanofhyd wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Because we all know KK never does stupid things, go for ambitious overtakes, go crazy in the start or do any Banzai/kamikaze moves. stable he is indeed


Enough with the sarcasm. Kobayashi has been involved in less incidents than Alonso, Vettel, Webber, Massa, Hamilton, Button since he started his F1 career.


Well since you actually bothered, why don't you tell me those facts i am missing. how many accidents has KK been involved in since starting his career.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:02 pm 
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I'll try...

Oz 2010
Canada 2010 (Wall of champions)
Silverstone 2011 (Hit by Schumi)
Korea 2012

Not a lot in reality... I cannot remember all of them...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Ja'a wrote:
Kamui could return to GP2, be a champion and make a comeback in 2014.

No he can't, he's had a full season of F1.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:58 pm 
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OutKast wrote:
I'll try...

Oz 2010
Canada 2010 (Wall of champions)
Silverstone 2011 (Hit by Schumi)
Korea 2012

Not a lot in reality... I cannot remember all of them...


Oz his front wing failed on the way in to turn 3 I think. Wasn't his fault.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:10 pm 
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I wouldn't take a punt on Koba yet, Grosjean was crashy sure, but only as crashy as Vettel is when he is ever in traffic!

Grosjean showed a lot of pace, something that Koba hasn't really shown in his career.. he has shown decent racecraft and tenacious passing but that's about all.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:12 am 
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I think some of you guys are missing the point here. Lotus might be looking for overall consistency rather than great pace a few of the times.

I'm impressed with RoGros pace at a handful of races (everyone is) but I'm sure everyone in the team would rather have him come in at a position or two lower but in many more races.

I think the team understands they aren't fighting for the championship so what comes next is getting the left over points. And also gain more points when the leaders simply fail to do so. Kimi has done this all year long and even won a race after Hamiltons DNF.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:32 am 
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Grosjean will either be back in Lotus next season, or not in F1 at all. Force India is a smart team, I will literally eat my own fairy cakes if a team of their calibre hire Grosjean.

No seriously, I will.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:34 am 
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Is it really an upgrade ?
In terms of driver skills I think there's not too much difference.
But I think the money that Koba is going to bring will be enough to pay Kimi's bonus if he does as consistently as 2012 at least.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:37 am 
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Concussion wrote:
Grosjean will either be back in Lotus next season, or not in F1 at all. Force India is a smart team, I will literally eat my own fairy cakes if a team of their calibre hire Grosjean.

No seriously, I will.

I agree. I want both Kamui and Romain to stay but their careers seem dependent on each other. If Kamui secures the Lotus seat, FI will not take Romain simply because they cannot afford to risk the potentially huge repair costs that is incurred from Romain's adventures. If he had so many crashes and spins in a good car, I cannot imagine how much he would struggle in a mediocre mid-field car.

On the other hand if Kamui gets a drive in FI and Romain continues in Lotus, I don't see any other near opportunities for Kamui better than the current one to really climb up into a top team and challenge for wins, he might be another Fisichella, Heidfeld or Trulli. Romain is an example of how one can really make a name in a team like Lotus and besides Kimi. The grid is tightly packed and a few good performances against established drivers kind of certifies that you're top material. Even with so many crashes and errors and up and down race pace, Romain is still pipped as a future race winner.

Grosjean should drive for a smaller team for a year or 2 and come back to Lotus. His manager is Lotus' team principal and he has got backing from Total, so its not like he's going to entirely lose touch of his seat. He could come back after Kimi moves out or retires.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:29 am 
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Concussion wrote:
Grosjean will either be back in Lotus next season, or not in F1 at all. Force India is a smart team, I will literally eat my own fairy cakes if a team of their calibre hire Grosjean.

No seriously, I will.


Sames here I dont think Force India would go for RG. Im pretty sure Sutil will make a comeback if his legal issues are resolved, failing that it might be one of the newbies. If KK's Lotus move does happen, then the only option for RG would be Marussia.

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