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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:07 pm 
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We often compare which drivers have won the most WDCs but what about throwing designers into the same list given the whole "we are racing Newey" thing Alonso brought up recently. First question, do you think it is harder to win the WDC as a designer or a driver? How many different designers have had a WDC winning driver, possibly fewer than there are WDCs.

Two completely different career paths, but similar in one has to progress to the top by merit and continually out fox fiercely competitive rivals. They also have a similar lifespan at the top, although the designers career can be slightly longer and starts much later. Maybe 12-15 years for a top driver and 15-20 for a top designer.

In terms on an impact on Formula one, is Neweys 10 (?) WDCs better than Schumachers 7?

Does anybody know how the list would look combining both designers and drivers for WDC wins.

A nice off season topic :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Its obviously easier for the designer to design the car of the winning WDC than for the driver to win it simply because there are 2 drivers in each team. During the 1996 season the Williams Car was the best car and only either Damon Hill or JV could win the drivers championship, but not both of them. Newey the designer of Williams at the time would win the WDC regardless of which driver won it.

And yes of course Newey can't win the WDC on his own, the driver has to still win etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:44 pm 
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List of people who designed the WDC winning cars over the history of formula 1

2012 - Adrian Newey
2011 - Adrian Newey and Rob Marshall*
2010 - Adrian Newey and Rob Marshall*
2009 - Jorg Zander and loic Bigois.
2008 - Paddy Lowe, Neil Oatley and Tim Goss
2007 - Aldo Costa and Nicholas Tombazis
2006 - Bob Bell
2005 - Bob Bell
2004 - Rory Byrne
2003 - Rory Byrne
2002 - Rory Byrne
2001 - Rory Byrne
2000 - Rory Byrne
1999 - Adrian Newey
1998 - Adrian Newey
1997 - Adrian Newey and Patrick Head
1996 - Adrian Newey and Patrick Head
1995 - Rory Byrne
1994 - Rory Byrne
1993 - Adrian Newey
1992 - Adrian Newey
1991 - Neil Oatley~
1990 - Neil Oatley~
1989 - Neil Oatley~
1988 - Steve Nichols
1987 - Patrick Head and Frank Dernie
1986 - John Barnard
1985 - John Barnard
1984 - John Barnard
1983 - Gordon Murray
1982 - Patrick Head
1981 - Gordon Murray
1980 - Patrick Head and Neil Oatley
1979 - Mauro Forghieri
1978 - Colin Chapman, Geoff Aldridge, Martin Ogilvie, Tony Rudd and Peter Wright
1977 - Mauro Forghieri
1976 - Gordon Coppuck
1975 - Mauro Forghieri
1974 - Gordon Coppuck
1973 - Derek Gardner
1972 - Colin Chapman, Tony Rudd and Maurice Philippe
1971 - Derek Gardner
1970 - Colin Chapman and Maurice Philippe
1969 - Gérard Ducarouge and Bernard Boyer
1968 - Colin Chapman and Maurice Philippe
1967 - Ron Tauranac
1966 - Ron Tauranac
1965 - Colin Chapman
1964 - Mauro Forghieri
1963 - Colin Chapman
1962 - Tony Rudd?
1961 - Carlo Chiti
1960 - Owen Maddock
1959 - Owen Maddock
1958 - Vittorio Jano and Carlo Chiti
1957 - Gioacchino Colombo and Valerio Colotti
1956 - Vittorio Jano
1955 - Rudolf Uhlenhaut
1954 - Rudolf Uhlenhaut^
1953 - Aurelio Lampredi
1952 - Aurelio Lampredi
1951 - Gioacchino Colombo
1950 - Gioacchino Colombo

^Won 9 out of 12 races that season and Fangio was world champion with it, but he also drove for Maseratti.
~Under the supervision and guidance of Steve Nichols.
*Adrian Newey Labelled as Chief Technical Officer, Rob Marshall Chief Designer.

Going off Wikipedia and the information they give on the Chassis designers I compiled this list from 1950-2012.

This is a full list of designers who designed the WDC winning cars of any given year, all info is on wikipedia. These designers are also credited as the head of design.

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Last edited by Moore on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:20 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Moore wrote:
2009 - Really don't know this one, the name I found where; Ross Brawn, Jorg Zander, loic Bigois.

Going off Wikipedia and the information they give on the Chassis designers I compiled this list from 1980-2012, I'd of gone back further but I need to go and do a few things and will finish it off later or if someone else wants to they can.


Probably the Brawn was designed by Jörg Zander and Loic Bigois as they were the desingers of the previous years Honda RA108 along with Shuhei Nakamoto. Not sure if was just them, it seems Nakamoto could well have been involved with the design work of what was to be branded Brawn BGP001 because he left at the end of 2008.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:57 pm 
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RaisinChips wrote:
Moore wrote:
2009 - Really don't know this one, the name I found where; Ross Brawn, Jorg Zander, loic Bigois.

Going off Wikipedia and the information they give on the Chassis designers I compiled this list from 1980-2012, I'd of gone back further but I need to go and do a few things and will finish it off later or if someone else wants to they can.


Probably the Brawn was designed by Jörg Zander and Loic Bigois as they were the desingers of the previous years Honda RA108 along with Shuhei Nakamoto. Not sure if was just them, it seems Nakamoto could well have been involved with the design work of what was to be branded Brawn BGP001 because he left at the end of 2008.


Cheers, realised I didn't actually check the chassis BGP001 page on Wiki, and you are correct it was designed by Jorg Zander and Loic Bigois.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Wouldn't the 07 Ferrari count as a Rory Bryne design?

Basically all Ferrari did after he left was refine the design each year. Which is why since 2009 they've struggled to design a car that's fast out of the box. The tried and true copy what Rory Bryne did wasn't going to cut it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:10 pm 
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An F1 car is designed by a whole team of people and not one man

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:32 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
An F1 car is designed by a whole team of people and not one man


It is indeed but somebody is seen as the head designer and is mainly given the credit.

I have completed the list and wouldn't mind if anyone could point out mistakes.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:33 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
An F1 car is designed by a whole team of people and not one man


Ok then, I'll pick newey or Byrne to head up my team and you cans take however you want from the remainder. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Also as cars can develop over the years it is easier for a designer to have consecutive tittles than a driver as they have to start at zero each year.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:38 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Also as cars can develop over the years it is easier for a designer to have consecutive tittles than a driver as they have to start at zero each year.


But there is the other side of that, for all the other designers who are chasing that one designer. It can take them years to catch up. For example look at the huge gap (10 years) in Neweys titles, whilst Bryne was dominating the sport.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Thanks for doing the list, great work. More than 3 WDC's

Newey 9
Schumacher 7
Byrne 7
Chapman 6
Fangio 5
Prost 4
Oatley 4

Edit - Thanks

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Last edited by lamo on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:46 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Thanks for doing the list, great work. More than 3 WDC's

Newey 9
Schumacher 7
Byrne 7
Chapman 6
Fangio 5
Prost 4


Neil Oatley has 4 as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:54 pm 
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What about engines? They need to be designed too and are the force that makes race cars go round.
The man who can claim most championships is Keith Duckworth, designer of the Cosworth DFV engine which delivered 12 F1 drivers' titles between 1968 and 1982.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:57 pm 
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lamo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Also as cars can develop over the years it is easier for a designer to have consecutive tittles than a driver as they have to start at zero each year.


But there is the other side of that, for all the other designers who are chasing that one designer. It can take them years to catch up. For example look at the huge gap (10 years) in Neweys titles, whilst Bryne was dominating the sport.


We are both right :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:59 pm 
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I may be wrong but was Patrick head not chief designer for the early 90s Williams cars. Newey was head of aero?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I may be wrong but was Patrick head not chief designer for the early 90s Williams cars. Newey was head of aero?


Both were credited as the designers but I seem to have missed Patrick Head off, my mistake.

Edit: Actually I just checked, Adrian Newey was Chief Designer from 1992 onwards and Patrick Head was Technical Director. I just re-re-checked it and 1996 and 1997 Williams cars seem to be credited as both designing the car.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Moore wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I may be wrong but was Patrick head not chief designer for the early 90s Williams cars. Newey was head of aero?


Both were credited as the designers but I seem to have missed Patrick Head off, my mistake.

Edit: Actually I just checked, Adrian Newey was Chief Designer from 1992 onwards and Patrick Head was Technical Director.


:thumbup: It is a slight gray area though as in 2010 for example I believe Adrian Newey was "Chief Technical officer" at Red Bull while another guy, name escapes me, was "Chief designer" So who gets credited with the championship?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:11 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Moore wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I may be wrong but was Patrick head not chief designer for the early 90s Williams cars. Newey was head of aero?


Both were credited as the designers but I seem to have missed Patrick Head off, my mistake.

Edit: Actually I just checked, Adrian Newey was Chief Designer from 1992 onwards and Patrick Head was Technical Director.


:thumbup: It is a slight gray area though as in 2010 for example I believe Adrian Newey was "Chief Technical officer" at Red Bull while another guy, name escapes me, was "Chief designer" So who gets credited with the championship?


Rob Marshall, according to RB6 page on wiki. I shall make an adjustment to the list and add him. Its hard really because a numerous amount of designers had help, look at Chapman, he had a helping hand in quite a few car designs.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Interestingly, Byrne is the only designer to have won more than three in a row (excluding the Newey/Head partnership and then Newey on his own).

Fingers crossed for next year then.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Wouldn't the 2008 WDC car be Aldo Costa's design also? :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:38 am 
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Moore wrote:
List of people who designed the WDC winning cars over the history of formula 1

2012 - Adrian Newey
2011 - Adrian Newey and Rob Marshall*
2010 - Adrian Newey and Rob Marshall*
2009 - Jorg Zander and loic Bigois.
2008 - Paddy Lowe, Neil Oatley and Tim Goss
2007 - Aldo Costa and Nicholas Tombazis
2006 - Bob Bell
2005 - Bob Bell
2004 - Rory Byrne
2003 - Rory Byrne
2002 - Rory Byrne
2001 - Rory Byrne
2000 - Rory Byrne
1999 - Adrian Newey
1998 - Adrian Newey
1997 - Adrian Newey and Patrick Head
1996 - Adrian Newey and Patrick Head
1995 - Rory Byrne
1994 - Rory Byrne
1993 - Adrian Newey
1992 - Adrian Newey
1991 - Neil Oatley~
1990 - Neil Oatley~
1989 - Neil Oatley~
1988 - Steve Nichols
1987 - Patrick Head and Frank Dernie
1986 - John Barnard
1985 - John Barnard
1984 - John Barnard
1983 - Gordon Murray
1982 - Patrick Head
1981 - Gordon Murray
1980 - Patrick Head and Neil Oatley
1979 - Mauro Forghieri
1978 - Colin Chapman, Geoff Aldridge, Martin Ogilvie, Tony Rudd and Peter Wright
1977 - Mauro Forghieri
1976 - Gordon Coppuck
1975 - Mauro Forghieri
1974 - Gordon Coppuck
1973 - Derek Gardner
1972 - Colin Chapman, Tony Rudd and Maurice Philippe
1971 - Derek Gardner
1970 - Colin Chapman and Maurice Philippe
1969 - Gérard Ducarouge and Bernard Boyer
1968 - Colin Chapman and Maurice Philippe
1967 - Ron Tauranac
1966 - Ron Tauranac
1965 - Colin Chapman
1964 - Mauro Forghieri
1963 - Colin Chapman
1962 - Tony Rudd?
1961 - Carlo Chiti
1960 - Owen Maddock
1959 - Owen Maddock
1958 - Vittorio Jano and Carlo Chiti
1957 - Gioacchino Colombo and Valerio Colotti
1956 - Vittorio Jano
1955 - Rudolf Uhlenhaut
1954 - Rudolf Uhlenhaut^
1953 - Aurelio Lampredi
1952 - Aurelio Lampredi
1951 - Gioacchino Colombo
1950 - Gioacchino Colombo

^Won 9 out of 12 races that season and Fangio was world champion with it, but he also drove for Maseratti.
~Under the supervision and guidance of Steve Nichols.
*Adrian Newey Labelled as Chief Technical Officer, Rob Marshall Chief Designer.

Going off Wikipedia and the information they give on the Chassis designers I compiled this list from 1950-2012.

This is a full list of designers who designed the WDC winning cars of any given year, all info is on wikipedia. These designers are also credited as the head of design.

Seems odd that Newey is credited with designing consecutive cars at two different teams (1997/1998). How did that work? Also odd how few Gorson Murray is credited with.

(Not suggesting you're wrong, just surprised)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
Seems odd that Newey is credited with designing consecutive cars at two different teams (1997/1998). How did that work? Also odd how few Gorson Murray is credited with.

(Not suggesting you're wrong, just surprised)


Newey was involved with both designs, 1997 Williams and 1998 McLaren. I can't remember how things exactly went, he did the design work of the 1997 Williams and had already made a contract to go to McLaren but due to contract reasons he couldn't officially work at McLaren until the summer of 1997 and until then he was still officially employed by Williams who put him on "gardening leave" at the end of 1996 and the '97 Williams was then further developed by other guys at Williams. Therefore he couldn't do much but try to improve the 1997 McLaren MP4-12's design (I can't remember who designed it), but he designed the 1998 McLaren MP4-13.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Moore wrote:
2007 - Aldo Costa and Nicholas Tombazis


Just realised that this would have stayed the same had Alonso or Hamilton won the title ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
Moore wrote:
SNIP

Seems odd that Newey is credited with designing consecutive cars at two different teams (1997/1998). How did that work? Also odd how few Gorson Murray is credited with.

(Not suggesting you're wrong, just surprised)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4/13 Credits Adrian Newey as Designer on left hand side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW19 Credits Adrian Newey as Chief designer and Patrick Head as Technical Director.

I really don't know how it worked as I wasn't watching Formula one then.

Only came across Gordon Murray a few times as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Moore wrote:
Balibari wrote:
Moore wrote:
SNIP

Seems odd that Newey is credited with designing consecutive cars at two different teams (1997/1998). How did that work? Also odd how few Gorson Murray is credited with.

(Not suggesting you're wrong, just surprised)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4/13 Credits Adrian Newey as Designer on left hand side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW19 Credits Adrian Newey as Chief designer and Patrick Head as Technical Director.

I really don't know how it worked as I wasn't watching Formula one then.

Only came across Gordon Murray a few times as well.


Liked his cars that much, did you? ;)

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