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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:06 am 
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If anyone is familiar with me and my posts, I've been very critical of Dominicalli, and have got into so many discussions in this forum of how he is the reason of the Ferrari slump since he took the lead of the team.

LdM seems to agree, whether he will change the head, or will start micro-managing will only be clear within the coming few months


Quote:
"I want us to start with a car that is immediately capable of fighting for the win and it has to be our first task. In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter. We must revamp our organisation and our working methods to try and be at the same level as the best, right from the first race, which for too many years now we have failed to do."

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... 96749.html


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:21 pm 
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IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:27 pm 
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So . Someone is getting sacked .

This type of behaviour is unnecessary. All it does is scare your workers. Why would you as a worker , take a risk when you know it could cost you your job . It's why Ferrari were so conservative for so long . They're scared of taking a risk and getting sacked .

Ferrari should stick with what they have for at least 2 more seasons . Chopping and changing isn't worth it at this stage.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:29 pm 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Excellent post!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Fire the guy that calibrates the wind tunnel. That seems to be where most of their woes are sown. .

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:35 pm 
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They need jean todt 2.0

Ever since LDM gain back the power, the team has fallen just like it did before Jean join the team.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:45 pm 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:50 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.



Actually, so many personnel have changed in McLaren in the past few years, yet, their competitiveness never changed and they always field one of the best cars in any given season


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:50 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.


Nonsense ! What didn't work ? The car at the start of the year, that's what. And maybe the wind tunnel. So fine. Make changes there. Why make changes everywhere ? If the car is slow they don't blow the whole thing up with dynamite and start new. They pinpoint where the problem is and correct that. That's what Ferrari needs.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:56 pm 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.


Nonsense ! What didn't work ? The car at the start of the year, that's what. And maybe the wind tunnel. So fine. Make changes there. Why make changes everywhere ? If the car is slow they don't blow the whole thing up with dynamite and start new. They pinpoint where the problem is and correct that. That's what Ferrari needs.

And isn't it what LDM want? You are reading too much into his words. They are not going to fire everyone and compleletly replace their stuff and factory.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:00 pm 
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It's just so much fun to see Ferrari tripping themselves by their own feet, EVERY time! sorry, just passing by...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:03 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.


Nonsense ! What didn't work ? The car at the start of the year, that's what. And maybe the wind tunnel. So fine. Make changes there. Why make changes everywhere ? If the car is slow they don't blow the whole thing up with dynamite and start new. They pinpoint where the problem is and correct that. That's what Ferrari needs.

And isn't it what LDM want? You are reading too much into his words. They are not going to fire everyone and compleletly replace their stuff and factory.


Of course they are not going to fire everyone. But my question is whats the need to revamp the WHOLE organization ? If he just wanted to makes specific changes don't you think he would have said so ? He said they have to revamp the whole team. What am I to think ? The problems are not necessarily linked either. So why not just focus where the problem is ?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:06 pm 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.


Nonsense ! What didn't work ? The car at the start of the year, that's what. And maybe the wind tunnel. So fine. Make changes there. Why make changes everywhere ? If the car is slow they don't blow the whole thing up with dynamite and start new. They pinpoint where the problem is and correct that. That's what Ferrari needs.



And that's exactly what they're failing to do for the past 5 years and that's the job of the team leader. A team like Ferrari with its massive heritage and resources should not take 5 years to get things right. That shows the weakness of the leadership.

Come 2014 we might see another huge shuffle in the grid and Ferrari might face the same situation as 2009, there should be a team in place that can cope rapidly and not take 5 years to produce the 3rd fastest car. They have to be more futureproof


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:08 pm 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.


Nonsense ! What didn't work ? The car at the start of the year, that's what. And maybe the wind tunnel. So fine. Make changes there. Why make changes everywhere ? If the car is slow they don't blow the whole thing up with dynamite and start new. They pinpoint where the problem is and correct that. That's what Ferrari needs.

And isn't it what LDM want? You are reading too much into his words. They are not going to fire everyone and compleletly replace their stuff and factory.


Of course they are not going to fire everyone. But my question is whats the need to revamp the WHOLE organization ? If he just wanted to makes specific changes don't you think he would have said so ? He said they have to revamp the whole team. What am I to think ? The problems are not necessarily linked either. So why not just focus where the problem is ?


Revamping a whole team can be by changing the organisational flow, accountabilities and responsibilities, organisational chart..etc

It doesn't have to be by firing people only or employing new ones..


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:09 pm 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
IMO this is one of Ferrari's big problems. There is just no continuity. Every time they don't win they have to do this revamping and everything. Its like they want some magical solution. Its so much wasted time. Instead if they just stick to a plan and work hard they might find better results.

What was Ferrari's problem this year ? They started with a relatively slow car. Their development rate wasn't bad, their pitstops were quite good and so were their strategies. So why is there a need to revamp the whole organization ? Just work harder to get the design right and if its absolutely necessary then make changes specifically to the design team or the people who are responsible for making the car.

Revamping the whole team takes so much time out of the regular curriculum. Its an extra burden every year.

Edit: the OP says SD is the problem, I say its LDM.

Nonsense. You can't just say a buzzwords like work harder, get something right etc. The McLaren isn't changing anything and they are in the same place a Ferrari. It's clear that if it isn't working you must change it. I can assume everyone worked hard at Scuderia Ferrari, the current organization is just incapable of winning. If you don't want to change to adopt to new times you accept the mediocrity. This is not what Ferrari want, they want titles. You also forgot that Scuderia is just one department of Ferrari. Ferrari just had record profit last year. The problem isn't with Luca, but with Scuderia and its structure. LDM is rightfully pointing it out.


Nonsense ! What didn't work ? The car at the start of the year, that's what. And maybe the wind tunnel. So fine. Make changes there. Why make changes everywhere ? If the car is slow they don't blow the whole thing up with dynamite and start new. They pinpoint where the problem is and correct that. That's what Ferrari needs.

And isn't it what LDM want? You are reading too much into his words. They are not going to fire everyone and compleletly replace their stuff and factory.


Of course they are not going to fire everyone. But my question is whats the need to revamp the WHOLE organization ? If he just wanted to makes specific changes don't you think he would have said so ? He said they have to revamp the whole team. What am I to think ? The problems are not necessarily linked either. So why not just focus where the problem is ?

You may be reading too much into his words. He never said "whole". It's not clear what they want to change. I'm sure it won't change for a shake of change.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:10 pm 
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well, sales of baby oil in Maranello area are through the roof ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:24 pm 
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I don't think they should revamp anything. Ferrari as a team are great, the only department they lack is on the technical side(a rather important one). Personally i think Ferrari concentrated so much on adding more pace to the car at the beginning, that they didn't have a development path which would give them performance towards the end of the year. They hit a road block around midseason, and while they didn't stop bringing new parts, it was clear that everything was refinements not major upgrades. Anyone who followed their development closely will agree on this.

Their whole technical department was revamped last year, so doing it again would not be wise. The rest of the team are in my opinion functioning as good as in early 2000s, Ferrari were almost perfect in every strategic decision during the whole season. This technical team is already well underway with the 2013 model and the 2014 model as well. Hiring a new technical team now would only slow them down IMO.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:25 pm 
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F1nsider wrote:
If anyone is familiar with me and my posts, I've been very critical of Dominicalli, and have got into so many discussions in this forum of how he is the reason of the Ferrari slump since he took the lead of the team.

LdM seems to agree, whether he will change the head, or will start micro-managing will only be clear within the coming few months


Quote:
"I want us to start with a car that is immediately capable of fighting for the win and it has to be our first task. In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter. We must revamp our organisation and our working methods to try and be at the same level as the best, right from the first race, which for too many years now we have failed to do."

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... 96749.html


Discuss


I'm sorry, but I cannot see where LdM is agreeing with you.

He doesn't seem to be blaming SD and he certainly doesn't seem to be indicating replacing him. In fact, based on his quotes, you might see SD again next season:

Quote:
In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter.



It seems that LdM might have come to the conclusion that evolution rather than revolution might be the best way forward for Ferrari this winter.



Personally, I think Ferrari have been heading in the right direction in recent years. Following a big slump they have been making progress and closing in on the front and where they should be. If they can make similar progress this winter then I expect them to be in the mix from the beginning next season and we'll be watching Alonso and Massa battling for front row starts and podium positions from the off...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
If anyone is familiar with me and my posts, I've been very critical of Dominicalli, and have got into so many discussions in this forum of how he is the reason of the Ferrari slump since he took the lead of the team.

LdM seems to agree, whether he will change the head, or will start micro-managing will only be clear within the coming few months


Quote:
"I want us to start with a car that is immediately capable of fighting for the win and it has to be our first task. In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter. We must revamp our organisation and our working methods to try and be at the same level as the best, right from the first race, which for too many years now we have failed to do."

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... 96749.html


Discuss


I'm sorry, but I cannot see where LdM is agreeing with you.

He doesn't seem to be blaming SD and he certainly doesn't seem to be indicating replacing him. In fact, based on his quotes, you might see SD again next season:

Quote:
In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter.



It seems that LdM might have come to the conclusion that evolution rather than revolution might be the best way forward for Ferrari this winter.



Personally, I think Ferrari have been heading in the right direction in recent years. Following a big slump they have been making progress and closing in on the front and where they should be. If they can make similar progress this winter then I expect them to be in the mix from the beginning next season and we'll be watching Alonso and Massa battling for front row starts and podium positions from the off...

:D :D :D



I'm sorry I had to be clearer. What I meant is that he agrees with me (ahem :P) that the gap is organisational and not capabilities of personnel or lack of funds or anything else..

I bet under the current organisational structure, even if you hire Newey he won't be able to perform well, there are surely some bottlenecks in that structure, and LdM will be the best man to know which ones they are and start eliminating them (the bottleneck could be anything, not necessary a certain person)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:13 pm 
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F1nsider wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
If anyone is familiar with me and my posts, I've been very critical of Dominicalli, and have got into so many discussions in this forum of how he is the reason of the Ferrari slump since he took the lead of the team.

LdM seems to agree, whether he will change the head, or will start micro-managing will only be clear within the coming few months


Quote:
"I want us to start with a car that is immediately capable of fighting for the win and it has to be our first task. In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter. We must revamp our organisation and our working methods to try and be at the same level as the best, right from the first race, which for too many years now we have failed to do."

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... 96749.html


Discuss


I'm sorry, but I cannot see where LdM is agreeing with you.

He doesn't seem to be blaming SD and he certainly doesn't seem to be indicating replacing him. In fact, based on his quotes, you might see SD again next season:

Quote:
In order to achieve that, each one of us must improve in our own roles by at least a millimeter.



It seems that LdM might have come to the conclusion that evolution rather than revolution might be the best way forward for Ferrari this winter.



Personally, I think Ferrari have been heading in the right direction in recent years. Following a big slump they have been making progress and closing in on the front and where they should be. If they can make similar progress this winter then I expect them to be in the mix from the beginning next season and we'll be watching Alonso and Massa battling for front row starts and podium positions from the off...

:D :D :D



I'm sorry I had to be clearer. What I meant is that he agrees with me (ahem :P) that the gap is organisational and not capabilities of personnel or lack of funds or anything else..

I bet under the current organisational structure, even if you hire Newey he won't be able to perform well, there are surely some bottlenecks in that structure, and LdM will be the best man to know which ones they are and start eliminating them (the bottleneck could be anything, not necessary a certain person)


Indeed, I think with a few tweaks Ferrari aren't far away. Probably some areas they need to work on, but the fact they've got to the end of the season as 2nd in both the WDC and WCC with what is rated as at least the 3rd best car shows they've improved a lot.

It would really be good if we can have the 4 or 5-way team battle we were all hoping for this year (RBR, Mclaren, Ferrari, Merc & Lotus)

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:19 pm 
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They need a much better car!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:33 pm 
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The last time LDM revamped his organization, was firing The Dream Team. Instead of going step by step, he suddenly disassembled one of the best management teams in Ferrari history just for the sake of it. Not very smart.
Now the organization is working pretty good, with good pit stops, good strategy etc, the main problem is in the design of the car and that will not change if you start firing people. The car is not that bad in race trim as Fernando want us to believe. In Interlagos I think that Massa had the pace to win the race. Probably the car will be one of the best next year.....
May be the one that needs to take a sabbatical from Ferrari is LDM himself and let the organization to work.


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