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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
I never heared Hamilton talking about wanting more personal sponsors. Even if he has one or two more , he won't have much more work. If he has now about 30 days (1/3rd) of the McLaren PR days & lets say 10 days for personal sponsors, it will still be less than the half of McLaren PR duties.
The only thing Hamilton mentioned recently, he wants to do more is charity work, wich he has told his management. But maybe this does not count.
edit. *if he can chose whom he wants to work for it won't be as stressing as he has to go anywhere McLaren wanted him, like to India & back at 1 day etc. Usually work is more fun when you can chose what you do & for whom you work.



At 20 events, all teams do PR over the three days thats 60 days straight away, More than your estimate of 30 ;)

It's still cutting it from one deal just to add to another.

Why say I don't want to do this, only to get it cut and then do it through another avenue?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
I never heared Hamilton talking about wanting more personal sponsors. Even if he has one or two more , he won't have much more work. If he has now about 30 days (1/3rd) of the McLaren PR days & lets say 10 days for personal sponsors, it will still be less than the half of McLaren PR duties.
The only thing Hamilton mentioned recently, he wants to do more is charity work, wich he has told his management. But maybe this does not count.
edit. *if he can chose whom he wants to work for it won't be as stressing as he has to go anywhere McLaren wanted him, like to India & back at 1 day etc. Usually work is more fun when you can chose what you do & for whom you work.



At 20 events, all teams do PR over the three days thats 60 days straight away, More than your estimate of 30 ;)

It's still cutting it from one deal just to add to another.

Why say I don't want to do this, only to get it cut and then do it through another avenue?


Will he do other PR things?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Unless any of us are privvy to his contract who knows.

But if he doesn't doextra for Merc I would be very surprised.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Hamilton is a great guy for PR work, because of his good image and people skills. Though he does want to do more charity work as stated, which would make him less likely to want to do more PR work on top of what he will have to do, otherwise he won't have the time to do more charity stuff, and obviously charity is more important.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

The reality of it is that nobody here has experienced life as an F1 driver and therefore cannot say with any sort of certainty whether drivers should put up and shut up or whether we should get the violins out.

I once attended four races in a row (Monaco, Germany, Canada and USA) and despite 'holidaying' between, by the time I got home I was absolutely exhausted. I cannot imagine doing that upwards of 16 times a year, plus having to work while I'm there, plus do other stuff in between as well as working out every single day. Yes, some of these drivers get paid millions, but they do risk their lives for our entertainment. I think the amount of PR days McLaren drivers are expected to do is excessive.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Unbutton wrote:
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

The reality of it is that nobody here has experienced life as an F1 driver and therefore cannot say with any sort of certainty whether drivers should put up and shut up or whether we should get the violins out.

I once attended four races in a row (Monaco, Germany, Canada and USA) and despite 'holidaying' between, by the time I got home I was absolutely exhausted. I cannot imagine doing that upwards of 16 times a year, plus having to work while I'm there, plus do other stuff in between as well as working out every single day. Yes, some of these drivers get paid millions, but they do risk their lives for our entertainment. I think the amount of PR days McLaren drivers are expected to do is excessive.

most reasonable comment so far....these people are human and even though it's all well and good that they live a fancy life and shouldn't complain,it's still the human body....i remember when i got a job in Toronto but still used to live in Ottawa,i temporarily had to go back n forth every day and even though it was just an 1hr flight,it sucked big time and at the end of the week it usually took it's toll on me.
of course at the end of the day,there have a better job that alot of people but they aren't doing anything that almost everyone does,whinge about how rough their day was even though that there are people who are less privileged and can only dream of having this "rough day".


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:21 pm 
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I travel around the world as part of my work, yes it does tire you but when your paid good money you solider on and deal with it. The body adapts to the work load naturally, though long flights are heavy and you often need down time afterwards, but you get use to it.

I don't think there is an excuse when your paid millions, by saying I'm only human our body can't handle it, because the body can handle it fine. Some guys out there do over 20 hour shifts a time out at sea being brutally battered for months in freezing wet conditions and they deal with it fine because the body can adapt to such situations. It's the mind that can potentially suffer more, it's the mental stability that counts for allot more, most people break mentally when given proper tough work.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:20 am 
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Jomox wrote:
I travel around the world as part of my work, yes it does tire you but when your paid good money you solider on and deal with it. The body adapts to the work load naturally, though long flights are heavy and you often need down time afterwards, but you get use to it.

I don't think there is an excuse when your paid millions, by saying I'm only human our body can't handle it, because the body can handle it fine. Some guys out there do over 20 hour shifts a time out at sea being brutally battered for months in freezing wet conditions and they deal with it fine because the body can adapt to such situations. It's the mind that can potentially suffer more, it's the mental stability that counts for allot more, most people break mentally when given proper tough work.

it's not like he has decided to skip any PR event anyway so what's the fuss here? the PR event that was skipped was because it was canceled not because he didn't want to do it....u are not out there at sea to know if those guys complain about their workload or not :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:20 am 
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Unbutton wrote:
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

The reality of it is that nobody here has experienced life as an F1 driver and therefore cannot say with any sort of certainty whether drivers should put up and shut up or whether we should get the violins out.

I once attended four races in a row (Monaco, Germany, Canada and USA) and despite 'holidaying' between, by the time I got home I was absolutely exhausted. I cannot imagine doing that upwards of 16 times a year, plus having to work while I'm there, plus do other stuff in between as well as working out every single day. Yes, some of these drivers get paid millions, but they do risk their lives for our entertainment. I think the amount of PR days McLaren drivers are expected to do is excessive.

er, no they don't. They get paid to do what they love doing anyway. The fact that we watch it is immaterial.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:36 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Jomox wrote:
I travel around the world as part of my work, yes it does tire you but when your paid good money you solider on and deal with it. The body adapts to the work load naturally, though long flights are heavy and you often need down time afterwards, but you get use to it.

I don't think there is an excuse when your paid millions, by saying I'm only human our body can't handle it, because the body can handle it fine. Some guys out there do over 20 hour shifts a time out at sea being brutally battered for months in freezing wet conditions and they deal with it fine because the body can adapt to such situations. It's the mind that can potentially suffer more, it's the mental stability that counts for allot more, most people break mentally when given proper tough work.

it's not like he has decided to skip any PR event anyway so what's the fuss here? the PR event that was skipped was because it was canceled not because he didn't want to do it....u are not out there at sea to know if those guys complain about their workload or not :)


Not criticizing him at all, just saying in general the work load is fine.


Apart from the traveling an F1 driver's job is not that tough physically because they are very physically fit and it's only some weekends where they are tested in the car, the fitness training is tough but that's something your paid allot of money to do. It mostly tires them mentally, but again the body can adjust to that, and F1 drivers are very strong mentality (Mostly, as we have seen cases of mental break downs with F1 drivers)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:52 pm 
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F1 is quite a mentally tiring job actually, i feel. Played f1 2012, just a single lapse of concentration on the last lap and i spun out and i ended up in last place. But who cares, they get paid millions and they are expected to perform.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:21 pm 
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I don't doubt that they work hard and work ridiculously long hours. Obviously they're more than compensated for it. I don't mind if they complain about it but they're ridiculously privileged and I'm sure they realise that. It would be pretty tactless if they appealed for sympathy.

It does seem that Button and Hamilton as McLaren drivers did more PR than say Ferrarri and RBR drivers. I don't see Alonso having to voiceover his own caricature for a cartoon series. But maybe that's because I don't watch Spanish TV. I've certainly seen Sebastian do a number of slightly embarrassing tv stunts on the German circuit.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 pm 
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I see the mentality here is 'they get paid a fortune, they should do anything and everything they're told'. It's a little sad there's not a bit more imagination and compassion.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Unbutton wrote:
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

The reality of it is that nobody here has experienced life as an F1 driver and therefore cannot say with any sort of certainty whether drivers should put up and shut up or whether we should get the violins out.

I once attended four races in a row (Monaco, Germany, Canada and USA) and despite 'holidaying' between, by the time I got home I was absolutely exhausted. I cannot imagine doing that upwards of 16 times a year, plus having to work while I'm there, plus do other stuff in between as well as working out every single day. Yes, some of these drivers get paid millions, but they do risk their lives for our entertainment. I think the amount of PR days McLaren drivers are expected to do is excessive.

er, no they don't. They get paid to do what they love doing anyway. The fact that we watch it is immaterial.

You think they'd have jobs if we didn't watch it?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Unbutton wrote:
I see the mentality here is 'they get paid a fortune, they should do anything and everything they're told'. It's a little sad there's not a bit more imagination and compassion.


Compassion?? Get real!

It's not hard work to do those PR days but merely long days!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:34 pm 
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How do you know? How many PR days do you do per year?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:44 am 
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Having worked in motorsport PR, I feel bad for ALL the drivers having to do it, especially at the end of the season. For some, they have been nonstop with events since Brazil. If you had a look at photos from the Autosport awards - damn everybody looks tired. The WDC for example had, beginning last tuesday, the big team homecoming/thank you event @ MK, showcar run in Austria saturday morning, RBR end of season/xmas party in the UK saturday night, Autosport Awards in London sunday night, servus tv f1 special at Hangar 7 today, off to Istanbul for the FIA gala this Friday, and the ROC coming up in a week and a half in Bangkok. That's like a third of the "off season" gone right there. Mark went straight from the MK homecoming to his own adventure race in Tasmania - which he even competed in (that race is INSANE without even considering the jetlag involved with Brazil -> UK -> Tasmania in like 4 days). I'm sure the other drivers and teams have had tons of post-season commitments too. I know these guys get paid a fortune, but none of it is easy work. Just being "on" all the time is tiring, the travel is murder on your body, and the germs you pick up signing stuff, handing things back and forth, shaking hands, leaning in for photos - ugh. I'm always amazed at how much some of the drivers give of themselves to the fans and the media :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:33 am 
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gleichgültig wrote:
I don't doubt that they work hard and work ridiculously long hours. Obviously they're more than compensated for it. I don't mind if they complain about it but they're ridiculously privileged and I'm sure they realise that. It would be pretty tactless if they appealed for sympathy.

It does seem that Button and Hamilton as McLaren drivers did more PR than say Ferrarri and RBR drivers. I don't see Alonso having to voiceover his own caricature for a cartoon series. But maybe that's because I don't watch Spanish TV. I've certainly seen Sebastian do a number of slightly embarrassing tv stunts on the German circuit.

I was wondering this, are there any members from other countries who can tell us if they do a lot of PR. I would have thought they'd use Fernando in British Santander adverts ...

I agree with you, I wouldn't be complaining if I were a McLaren driver. You're being paid to drive, something which you say you love, so doing some PR for the team, in exchange for MILLIONS OF POUNDS is a small price to pay.

I am interested though to find out how much McLaren expect - cause I remember towards the end of 2011 when Jenson's contract was up for renewal and on The Forum he said he'd be driving for McLaren once they'd sorted out and agreed to how much pr work he had to do...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:52 am 
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Unbutton wrote:
I see the mentality here is 'they get paid a fortune, they should do anything and everything they're told'. It's a little sad there's not a bit more imagination and compassion.


Let me ask you... At your job, are you expected to anything and everything your told? Is that not part of the thing we call a job?
If you choose not to do what you are told, you are soon looking for employment. At that point, you seek a job that does not have the requirements that you do not like.

Now, if you can find one that pays you more per year than most people would make in five lifetimes, live the high life in exotic locations, and allows you to participate in an activity that you love... ie driving a car for example.... then make the best of it. If you don't want to do what it required, get a different job.

Just don't expect people to feel sorry for those people such as F1 drivers for living such a rough life that requires them to do a bit of PR work for their millions.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:16 am 
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Just because the DRIVING part is fun for *some* of the guys on the grid doesn't mean it isn't work.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:21 am 
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That may be, ashley, but it is still what they are being paid to do, and they know full well what kind of demands are involved when they sign that contract. All of us who have jobs have to work, that is why we are paid. Some of us would much prefer it if our work was something we found really fun to do... playing games or driving fast cars being two such things. Getting paid 10s of millions to do so... well, sorry, I have no sympathy for the drivers having to do some of the "grudgery" type work too.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:31 am 
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They're paid to risk their lives as well. Do you not feel compassion when drivers are injured? Just because they sign up to do the job and are paid a lot to do it doesn't mean they dont deserve some compassion and sympathy, IMO. Then again, I don't think any amount of money could really compensate any of the top drivers for their best efforts. To borrow a premise from the worst racing movie ever, it is their life, not just what they do for a living. Sometimes that's the difference between the best and the rest.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:42 am 
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Of course I have compassion for the drivers when they are injured. and to be honest, I rather resent your questioning it.

Yes, they do a dangerous job, no question about it. And I respect them for it... all drivers... something I have said often before. What I do not feel for them is compassion for the doing the rest of their job, which they agree to when they sign the contract. The PR is a small part of the job... even if it is more that McLaren than other teams... and I do mean IF... then do it or don't sign with them.

ashley, we all have some things in our jobs that are not pleasant for us, things that are grudgery, but we do them, or we leave. And many of us complain about those activities, as have athletes... it is human nature. Just don't expect everyone to feel sorry for them when the drivers have to do those kind of things too.
:)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:40 am 
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Unbutton wrote:
How do you know? How many PR days do you do per year?


12 days a year and no extra pay, amongst this is 2 days at the NEC Birmingham, 2 days in German and one of them is in America (thanks to the American owners we now have) means flying out straight to 2 days of solid exhibiting our product range and then fly back, all the time not being lauded as a hero and treated to the finest things the area has to offer!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:28 am 
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Unbutton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Unbutton wrote:
Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

The reality of it is that nobody here has experienced life as an F1 driver and therefore cannot say with any sort of certainty whether drivers should put up and shut up or whether we should get the violins out.

I once attended four races in a row (Monaco, Germany, Canada and USA) and despite 'holidaying' between, by the time I got home I was absolutely exhausted. I cannot imagine doing that upwards of 16 times a year, plus having to work while I'm there, plus do other stuff in between as well as working out every single day. Yes, some of these drivers get paid millions, but they do risk their lives for our entertainment. I think the amount of PR days McLaren drivers are expected to do is excessive.

er, no they don't. They get paid to do what they love doing anyway. The fact that we watch it is immaterial.

You think they'd have jobs if we didn't watch it?

No, it's the link between watching it - our entertainment - and risking their lives that I was refuting. They are absolutely not some kind of hero figures who risk their lives for us. And I very much doubt that they drive "for us," in the same way that I do my job for the benefits it gives me and my family, not for others it may or may not impact. If it does it's nice but it's not the reason I do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:37 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
They're paid to risk their lives as well. Do you not feel compassion when drivers are injured? Just because they sign up to do the job and are paid a lot to do it doesn't mean they dont deserve some compassion and sympathy, IMO. Then again, I don't think any amount of money could really compensate any of the top drivers for their best efforts. To borrow a premise from the worst racing movie ever, it is their life, not just what they do for a living. Sometimes that's the difference between the best and the rest.

Sorry ashley313, I usually really like your posts but can't agree with you here. They are not paid to risk their lives but are paid to race. Besides, statistically F1 is one of the safest sports around these days, with the last death occurring 18 years ago. There are plenty of other jobs where people do risk their lives on a daily basis and get paid a fraction of what the drivers get.

Of course, everyone deserves compassion when injured, but that's deviating somewhat from the original issue which is feeling sorry for the amount of PR work the drivers have to do.

edit. These guys are natural adrenaline junkies. How many of them do rally or snowboarding or other extreme sports when not working? Or take part in other forms of racing in their spare time? They probably crave the fix that living on the edge gives them and would do it whether or not they get paid. They don't deserve (or, I daresay, expect) any kind of compassion for it


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:53 am 
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Blake wrote:
Of course I have compassion for the drivers when they are injured. and to be honest, I rather resent your questioning it.

Yes, they do a dangerous job, no question about it. And I respect them for it... all drivers... something I have said often before. What I do not feel for them is compassion for the doing the rest of their job, which they agree to when they sign the contract. The PR is a small part of the job... even if it is more that McLaren than other teams... and I do mean IF... then do it or don't sign with them.

ashley, we all have some things in our jobs that are not pleasant for us, things that are grudgery, but we do them, or we leave. And many of us complain about those activities, as have athletes... it is human nature. Just don't expect everyone to feel sorry for them when the drivers have to do those kind of things too.
:)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:56 am 
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How many people over 25 here with career jobs think F1 drivers work to hard? Because seriously from laborer to white collar I can't believe people would think F1 drivers have it tough. I mean even middle management would work harder than an F1 driver. ANd everyone will be doing it for far less perks and salary. I can't believe this is even being debated.

Oh no 100 days of PR! Are you serious, most people work 240+ days a year. Doing longer hours for less pay. Hell, everyone in F1 who isn't a driver is probably working harder than the drivers have to. Have you though about the insane amounts of work those engineers are putting in? To the point where the governing body had to limit the number of overnight days they could take during the year. Yes there is work involved with being an F1 driver, no one is denying that. But they work less than 80% of the population, including those closest to them.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:38 am 
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I wonder how they would cope if we went back to the days of unlimited testing?

Would they be complaining if the long days were spent hammering laps around Silverstone?

Surely a lot of the PR days have just replaced the old test days.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:01 am 
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Johnston wrote:
I wonder how they would cope if we went back to the days of unlimited testing?

Would they be complaining if the long days were spent hammering laps around Silverstone?

Surely a lot of the PR days have just replaced the old test days.


Absolutely spot on!

The teams want value for the money they pay the drivers so if they can't have them lapping day after day they'll use them on PR

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:26 am 
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This tweet says it all!!

https://twitter.com/mbrundlef1/status/2 ... 5298896896

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
I guess you could call it debating. You responded to my initial post where said it's difficult to say you'd prefer something you'd never done. All I was doing in my second post was reiterating that point. So I suppose I'm debating the lack of debatability on that point.

You say that professional drivers have no direct frame of reference for what the proles have to do in their jobs; well, exactly the same lack of reference is applicable to you, but the other way around.

So what are you saying: that no-one is allowed to debate anything unless they have had direct experience of it? What is the point of this Forum then, exactly? I didn't realise you needed to be an F1 driver to be a member? :uhoh:

And I'm sorry, but you're wrong in your second paragraph. My point was that F1 drivers are not in a position to complain because they are privileged and that the work/life pressures in their job are far removed from most peoples. I've no doubt they work hard at their jobs but they don't really face the hardships that most people face in their day to day lives and therefore it's difficult to feel sympathy when they complain that parts of their job are too onerous. I don't have to live their lives to make that observation. If I walked out of my job tomorrow without any backup plan I'd struggle to survive day to day; if Lewis walked out of his job he'd struggle not to be bored. That's a massive difference.

I have no problem with them earning what they do and enjoying the lifestyle they have. Kudos to them for making it in life. Just don't moan that you have it tough!


Maybe I haven't been clear enough in my points, but what I was attempting to get across is that I think it's pretty shortsighted of someone to say that they would definitely prefer one thing to another when they have exactly zero experience of that other thing.

I think everyone has the right to get the most out of their job. Are you really suggesting that after someone gets past a certain income they forfeit their right to complain? If so, how do you quantify that?

You're right that clearly we have a vastly different lifestyle to people such as those in F1, but that shouldn't render people who earn more unable to complain. People live to their means. I've earned up to six times what I currently earn, and guess what... I had £0 at the end of the month back then, and I have £0 left at the end of the month now.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:54 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
Zoue wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
I guess you could call it debating. You responded to my initial post where said it's difficult to say you'd prefer something you'd never done. All I was doing in my second post was reiterating that point. So I suppose I'm debating the lack of debatability on that point.

You say that professional drivers have no direct frame of reference for what the proles have to do in their jobs; well, exactly the same lack of reference is applicable to you, but the other way around.

So what are you saying: that no-one is allowed to debate anything unless they have had direct experience of it? What is the point of this Forum then, exactly? I didn't realise you needed to be an F1 driver to be a member? :uhoh:

And I'm sorry, but you're wrong in your second paragraph. My point was that F1 drivers are not in a position to complain because they are privileged and that the work/life pressures in their job are far removed from most peoples. I've no doubt they work hard at their jobs but they don't really face the hardships that most people face in their day to day lives and therefore it's difficult to feel sympathy when they complain that parts of their job are too onerous. I don't have to live their lives to make that observation. If I walked out of my job tomorrow without any backup plan I'd struggle to survive day to day; if Lewis walked out of his job he'd struggle not to be bored. That's a massive difference.

I have no problem with them earning what they do and enjoying the lifestyle they have. Kudos to them for making it in life. Just don't moan that you have it tough!


Maybe I haven't been clear enough in my points, but what I was attempting to get across is that I think it's pretty shortsighted of someone to say that they would definitely prefer one thing to another when they have exactly zero experience of that other thing.

I think everyone has the right to get the most out of their job. Are you really suggesting that after someone gets past a certain income they forfeit their right to complain? If so, how do you quantify that?

You're right that clearly we have a vastly different lifestyle to people such as those in F1, but that shouldn't render people who earn more unable to complain. People live to their means. I've earned up to six times what I currently earn, and guess what... I had £0 at the end of the month back then, and I have £0 left at the end of the month now.

It's one thing to want the most out of your job and quite another to complain about it in public. And my original point was that drivers shouldn't go complaining about how hard they are worked and expect others to sympathise with them.

Like you, I've earned considerably more at certain points in my career, and I've often scratched my head at how I've managed to end up with zero at the end of the month with no discernible change in expenditure and living standard. But when I was earning a lot - and working very hard - I wouldn't dream of moaning to anybody that I felt short changed in life, as I knew that relatively speaking I was still exceptionally fortunate. And even at my peak when I was earning massive commissions I wasn't taking home anywhere near what these top sports stars do.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Does anybody else find it ironic that we're discussing just how hard they work on a forum at 3pm on a Tuesday afternoon...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:10 pm 
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gleichgültig wrote:
Does anybody else find it ironic that we're discussing just how hard they work on a forum at 3pm on a Tuesday afternoon...

this PR stuff is hard work and we do too much of it.... i might go work for Mercedes :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
They're paid to risk their lives as well. Do you not feel compassion when drivers are injured? Just because they sign up to do the job and are paid a lot to do it doesn't mean they dont deserve some compassion and sympathy, IMO. Then again, I don't think any amount of money could really compensate any of the top drivers for their best efforts. To borrow a premise from the worst racing movie ever, it is their life, not just what they do for a living. Sometimes that's the difference between the best and the rest.

Sorry ashley313, I usually really like your posts but can't agree with you here. They are not paid to risk their lives but are paid to race. Besides, statistically F1 is one of the safest sports around these days, with the last death occurring 18 years ago. There are plenty of other jobs where people do risk their lives on a daily basis and get paid a fraction of what the drivers get.

Of course, everyone deserves compassion when injured, but that's deviating somewhat from the original issue which is feeling sorry for the amount of PR work the drivers have to do.

edit. These guys are natural adrenaline junkies. How many of them do rally or snowboarding or other extreme sports when not working? Or take part in other forms of racing in their spare time? They probably crave the fix that living on the edge gives them and would do it whether or not they get paid. They don't deserve (or, I daresay, expect) any kind of compassion for it

They are not just paid "to race". They are paid to be Formula 1 racing drivers, and all that entails. If they were just paid to race, they'd turn up at the track on friday, go home sunday night, and that's that. Being a professional Formula 1 driver includes all the PR work, development, testing, sponsor glad handing, team building, fitness training, mental conditioning, and lastly, racing. To be good at all of that, its a lifestyle not just a job. I don't care how safe it has become, belting into a Formula 1 car is dangerous. Ask Fernando how safe he felt in Belgium. Or ask his teammate about the scar on his head.

My current job is riding horses. I would ride for myself even if it wasn't my job. So I shouldn't get paid for it, or be allowed to feel aggrieved at times when my job dictates a situation I think is unfair or asking too much? I think anyone who works hard has the right to feel that way.

fieldstvl - you're right on with your points. Nobody here knows what its like.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:13 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
They're paid to risk their lives as well. Do you not feel compassion when drivers are injured? Just because they sign up to do the job and are paid a lot to do it doesn't mean they dont deserve some compassion and sympathy, IMO. Then again, I don't think any amount of money could really compensate any of the top drivers for their best efforts. To borrow a premise from the worst racing movie ever, it is their life, not just what they do for a living. Sometimes that's the difference between the best and the rest.

Sorry ashley313, I usually really like your posts but can't agree with you here. They are not paid to risk their lives but are paid to race. Besides, statistically F1 is one of the safest sports around these days, with the last death occurring 18 years ago. There are plenty of other jobs where people do risk their lives on a daily basis and get paid a fraction of what the drivers get.

Of course, everyone deserves compassion when injured, but that's deviating somewhat from the original issue which is feeling sorry for the amount of PR work the drivers have to do.

edit. These guys are natural adrenaline junkies. How many of them do rally or snowboarding or other extreme sports when not working? Or take part in other forms of racing in their spare time? They probably crave the fix that living on the edge gives them and would do it whether or not they get paid. They don't deserve (or, I daresay, expect) any kind of compassion for it

They are not just paid "to race". They are paid to be Formula 1 racing drivers, and all that entails. If they were just paid to race, they'd turn up at the track on friday, go home sunday night, and that's that. Being a professional Formula 1 driver includes all the PR work, development, testing, sponsor glad handing, team building, fitness training, mental conditioning, and lastly, racing. To be good at all of that, its a lifestyle not just a job. I don't care how safe it has become, belting into a Formula 1 car is dangerous. Ask Fernando how safe he felt in Belgium. Or ask his teammate about the scar on his head.

My current job is riding horses. I would ride for myself even if it wasn't my job. So I shouldn't get paid for it, or be allowed to feel aggrieved at times when my job dictates a situation I think is unfair or asking too much? I think anyone who works hard has the right to feel that way.

fieldstvl - you're right on with your points. Nobody here knows what its like.

They are paid to race. Everything else is subservient to that, but if you want to get all literal then yes, they are paid to race and all the associated duties that may or not be required. Satisfied? Just like a salesperson who's primary job is to sell their product/services, but their job may also involve PR work, admin etc etc. It doesn't change the core purpose of their role. But make no mistake, the driver's primary function is to race, and that is what they are primarily paid to do. If they can't do that then it doesn't matter how good at PR they might be - they will be out of a job.

And no-one has ever said they shouldn't be paid for their job; what an odd notion. However, as pointed out earlier, there is a difference between feeling aggrieved and bleating about it to anyone who will listen. And the point was that they're not really in a position to complain about being hard done by. That's the issue being discussed and no amount of red herrings about safety - which has absolutely nothing to do with the PR issue anyway - will change that.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:38 pm 
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If the racing were the primary element of the job, then drivers with huge dowries and little in the way of results wouldn't be in the sport. Whitmarsh wouldn't take the nationality of his drivers into consideration. Personal endorsement rights wouldn't be sticking points of contracts. Teams buy more than racing skills.

The dollar figure shouldn't even come into play when considering what is or isn't reasonable "hardship" in an employment role. They are paid a lot because they possess uncommon skills, like all high level professional athletes. Doesn't mean they don't have a right to want to limit certain elements.

Sure, they have a job that many people would kill for. But there are people who would kill for lots of lesser jobs too, and nobody tells the people in those roles that they can't feel aggrieved by extraordinary demands. Until you walk a mile in someone's shoes you really have no right to judge what they should or shouldn't feel.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:00 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
If the racing were the primary element of the job, then drivers with huge dowries and little in the way of results wouldn't be in the sport. Whitmarsh wouldn't take the nationality of his drivers into consideration. Personal endorsement rights wouldn't be sticking points of contracts. Teams buy more than racing skills.

The dollar figure shouldn't even come into play when considering what is or isn't reasonable "hardship" in an employment role. They are paid a lot because they possess uncommon skills, like all high level professional athletes. Doesn't mean they don't have a right to want to limit certain elements.

Sure, they have a job that many people would kill for. But there are people who would kill for lots of lesser jobs too, and nobody tells the people in those roles that they can't feel aggrieved by extraordinary demands. Until you walk a mile in someone's shoes you really have no right to judge what they should or shouldn't feel.

Seriously, you're contending that racing prowess isn't the primary element of the job? What on earth:?

I'm not sure how to respond to that, tbh. If the driver can't race, they won't be hired. If you get two drivers with equal talents, then teams may look at secondary considerations before hiring one of them, but no team wants to be bringing up the rear due to their driver fumbling around. They are absolutely not paid to drive, but to race. I can't believe you're actually claiming otherwise.

And I guess we'll have to disagree with regards to the dollar figure. As someone else pointed out earlier almost everybody has at least one element of their job they dislike, but it goes with the territory. And the better compensated one is, the less of an issue it usually becomes. In the case of F1 drivers, they are among the most well paid individuals on the planet, some earning more in a few months than the average individual will earn in their lifetime. And much of their income is sourced, directly or indirectly, from their own or the team's sponsors. So it seems rather insensitive for them to complain that they are being treated harshly when all that they are being asked to do is work for the millions being given them.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Yes, I really am saying drivers are hired for a lot more than their racing skills. There are many, many more drivers with the necessary racing skills and talent than those on the grid. The ones that make it, and stay for the long haul, are a bigger package. If you can't talk the talk and walk the walk OFF the track, you never even get a chance to show what you can do ON it.

If racing skill was the primary concern, folks like Pic, Gutierrez, and Chilton would not have jobs in F1 next year and Valsecchi, Evans, Abt, and GvdG, would.

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