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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:32 pm 
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A lot of fan lost their cool when Michael allowed Vettel to pass. Later Michael went on record to say Vettel deserved the title, which again led to a lot of fans slandering Michael and giving rise to theories that Michael hates Alonso. It is worth noting that even if Vettel stayed in 7th ie behind Michael, he still would have won the WDC. So I ask you is this a case of fans being sour losers or was Michael was at fault for favoritism

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:41 pm 
Even if Michael does hate Alonso, so what? He lost a championship to him (he wasn't really a contender in 2005) and Montezemolo says that Alonso is the best we have had etc. so I wouldn't be surprised if he did dislike Alonso. With Vettel on the other hand, they are both Germans , they never competed directly against each other for a championship so why wouldn't he prefer him?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:42 pm 
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greenwizard13 wrote:
Even if Michael does hate Alonso, so what? He lost a championship to him (he wasn't really a contender in 2005) and Montezemolo says that Alonso is the best we have had etc. so I wouldn't be surprised if he did dislike Alonso. With Vettel on the other hand, they are both Germans , they never competed directly against each other for a championship so why wouldn't he prefer him?


Schumacher and Alonso get on perfectly fine. Not best buddies but they get along OK.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:51 pm 
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My suspicions are also that Schumacher, realising that yet again nothing would come of the race aimed to finish in 7th. His post-race statement was that that's where he started his F1 career (qualified 7th in Spa 1991) and he'd won 7 WDCs, so it was appropriate that he finishes his career in 7th.

Helping his fellow countryman and semi-protege, aka Baby Schumi, probably entered his mind too.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:52 pm 
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104626

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"He was a lot quicker and there was no point getting engaged with him," said Schumacher. "I didn't see the point so that's why I moved over and let him through.

"I'm proud of him. He's a good friend of mine."


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:13 pm 
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If I were in his shoes I would have done the exact same thing. There's nothing wrong with racers helping each other out on track.

Doesn't mean Schumacher hates Alonso. That's just jumping to conclusions. Somebody has been using the jumping to conclusions mat.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:23 pm 
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They have to drive together at ROC in a couple of weeks. Imagine how awkward that would be if Michael had engaged and there was race-ending contact.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:39 pm 
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So, what would you say for all the Vettel hater and some new Schumacher haters

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:43 pm 
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I would say that's racing. Cultivating good relationships in the paddock is part of being an overall successful package in professional racing.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:51 pm 
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I think he would have moved over for Alonso as well if Alonso was that much quicker. I think as much as he may prefer Vettel, he wouldn't want to be the one to mix it with either of the title contenders and cause their retirement in the title deciding race. We're fortunate that little Senna didn't pull it off 100% and cause a serious bummer on the first lap. LOL

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Or Schumi let Vettel by because he doesnt wanna risk defending and taking Vettel out in a racing incident, giving Vettel, a fellow german who sees him as a hero the finger before retiring.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:58 pm 
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The notions about the number seven being intrinsically linked to MSC the driver are certainly nostalgic, but are most likely just a helpful story to cover over the real reason, which i think is as follows.

This was Schumacher's last race. Vettel would quite likely have forced an overtake eventually. By letting Vettel pass him by way of an open door, Schumi ingrains a nice image into F1 history of a veteran record braking retiring champ moving out of the way allowing the new hot shot to move ahead, rather than attempting to hold out and ending with the likely outcome which would paint a less positive image which may have come across as the old worn down 'has-been great' being left in the spray as a more able driver nips past him and his hapless car.

It also ensured that Schumi shares a portion of the headlines rather than the side stories. Trust me, Schumi is a tactical and political move maker. I know this, i've supported him all his career and watched him do it before (e.g. with webber @ Aus 2002) :)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:26 pm 
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I think the gripe most people have,and why I was disappointed was that Schumacher never lets anyone pass,he always puts up a fight to defend his position so it was disappointing for me to see him bow out like that

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:25 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
I would say that's racing. Cultivating good relationships in the paddock is part of being an overall successful package in professional racing.

lol yeah but if Vettel ran over your dog in a 30mph zone, you'd still say 'that's racing'.

it was b/s really, same as the torro rossos not putting up a fight, an open goal for Vettel. It's one thing your teammate helping out but having three virtual teammates in other teams helping out too is quite another.

I can understand why Schumacher did it though, there was no downside for him. He sticks one on Alonso, raises his stock with the German public and stays buddy with his younger compatriot.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:39 am 
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The stewards made it clear near the beginning of the season that they would come down hard on anyone who 'took out' a WDC contender.

Schumi would have been mad to risk a crash with Seb, and I've no doubt that he would have got out of the way if Alonso came up behind him too. It was the WDC decider - would any driver (in a different team and a slower car) risk a crash with Alonso or Seb? I doubt it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:45 am 
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Clutching at straws are we? Vettel was so much more quicker that MS he would have gotten him anyway. What MS said was right there was no point getting in his way. MS was not in the WDC tittle picture so why get in the way. MS is German, I'm sure he wanted a German drive to take home the WDC.

Too much is being made out of nothing.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:40 am 
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Schumi refusing to fight, STR refusing to fight the WDC contender. Afraid of a racing incident? Don't think so.
What if this was the first race of the year? Let's just choose a driver to win the WDC at the beginning of the season and all open the door for him when see him in their mirrors.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:44 am 
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Vet didnt force schumi for doing so...unlike Alonso + Massa


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:51 am 
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EyeZ wrote:
Schumi refusing to fight, STR refusing to fight the WDC contender. Afraid of a racing incident? Don't think so.
What if this was the first race of the year? Let's just choose a driver to win the WDC at the beginning of the season and all open the door for him when see him in their mirrors.

I can't be bothered to go back and check the actual stewards' explanation when giving the penalty (disqualification for a race?) at the beginning of the season.

But it was pretty much 'for taking out a contender' - and this was at the beginning of the season! Can you imagine the furore if it happened in the last race? 8O


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:59 am 
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Vettel gained 5-6 secs over a few laps .. it was a matter of corners before he would pass him anyways.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:15 pm 
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FingerBoi wrote:
Vettel gained 5-6 secs over a few laps .. it was a matter of corners before he would pass him anyways.


I have no idea why ppl insist Schu should've fought Seb. Why ?! Seb was 2-3 secs faster, it was a matter of waiting another 2-3 corners to pass him. Plus, if smth wrong had happened he(Schu) would have been the laughing stock of F1.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I would say that's racing. Cultivating good relationships in the paddock is part of being an overall successful package in professional racing.

lol yeah but if Vettel ran over your dog in a 30mph zone, you'd still say 'that's racing'.

it was b/s really, same as the torro rossos not putting up a fight, an open goal for Vettel. It's one thing your teammate helping out but having three virtual teammates in other teams helping out too is quite another.

I can understand why Schumacher did it though, there was no downside for him. He sticks one on Alonso, raises his stock with the German public and stays buddy with his younger compatriot.

No, I wouldn't. I know what its like when everyone in the paddock dislikes one person or a team or a couple of folks - it inevitably plays out on the circuit. And karma is as present in racing as the rest of life. So I say, by all means do favors when you can, even during a race. If it doesn't hurt you and your team in that race, it can only help you in the future. Its not like(ly) Fernando will have a chance to hold Michael up in a future WDC deciding situation ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Race2win wrote:
A lot of fan lost their cool when Michael allowed Vettel to pass. Later Michael went on record to say Vettel deserved the title, which again led to a lot of fans slandering Michael and giving rise to theories that Michael hates Alonso. It is worth noting that even if Vettel stayed in 7th ie behind Michael, he still would have won the WDC. So I ask you is this a case of fans being sour losers or was Michael was at fault for favoritism


Who seriously thinks Michael hates Alonso?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:25 pm 
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BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Race2win wrote:
A lot of fan lost their cool when Michael allowed Vettel to pass. Later Michael went on record to say Vettel deserved the title, which again led to a lot of fans slandering Michael and giving rise to theories that Michael hates Alonso. It is worth noting that even if Vettel stayed in 7th ie behind Michael, he still would have won the WDC. So I ask you is this a case of fans being sour losers or was Michael was at fault for favoritism


Who seriously thinks Michael hates Alonso?



Ive seen a lot of hate comments and those theories on different F1 site and the PF1 main site.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Kinda ironically Schumacher got a lot of flack for pushing people off the road, crashing into them and simply lets Vettel past.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:35 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
EyeZ wrote:
Schumi refusing to fight, STR refusing to fight the WDC contender. Afraid of a racing incident? Don't think so.
What if this was the first race of the year? Let's just choose a driver to win the WDC at the beginning of the season and all open the door for him when see him in their mirrors.

I can't be bothered to go back and check the actual stewards' explanation when giving the penalty (disqualification for a race?) at the beginning of the season.

But it was pretty much 'for taking out a contender' - and this was at the beginning of the season! Can you imagine the furore if it happened in the last race? 8O



It was after Spa Grosjean got a ban for Monza. And it was after the summer break so in the second half of the season.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I would say that's racing. Cultivating good relationships in the paddock is part of being an overall successful package in professional racing.

lol yeah but if Vettel ran over your dog in a 30mph zone, you'd still say 'that's racing'.

it was b/s really, same as the torro rossos not putting up a fight, an open goal for Vettel. It's one thing your teammate helping out but having three virtual teammates in other teams helping out too is quite another.

I can understand why Schumacher did it though, there was no downside for him. He sticks one on Alonso, raises his stock with the German public and stays buddy with his younger compatriot.


If there was collusion among multiple teams to prevent Ferrari from bagging the WDC, the FIA would more likely than not have at least looked into it.

Ferrari still have the FIA in their back pocket, don't they? :-|


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Man, all this Schumacher did that, Torro Rosso did that, what did Alonso?
Whithout Hamilton/Hulkenberg incident he would have been fourth and scoring only 12 points 2 less to beat Vettel and than Vettel could have DNF from first lap and still be WDC.
Even at some time in the race, / middle of the race some comentators were questioning can Alonso succesed even to optain the place to fight for WDC.
Imagine how pathetic would have been be fourth the final race, Vettel DNF, and Alonso not to ab;e to do nothing as he did in 2010 not beeing able to pass Petrov, just a little cry boy.
Not saying that it was entirly his fault, it was Ferrari fault for not developing even more the car in the last 3-4 races, but even so, Massa seemed faster even in the last race.

An to say another argument for Vettel, he won 5 races, Alonso only 3 races.
Hamilton also won 3 races.
From this point of view Vettel deserved the WDC more than Alonso.
And you can also coun't fate favouring a little bit more Vettel than Alonso.
Vettel could have been easily crash to DNF in the first lap by many cars. But he wasn't so.
Alonso also get a gift from Hamilton and Hulkenberg. But he wasn't in the place where he would have been to be.

But in the end who worked more in the race?
You can say whathever you want to say about passes but Vettel seemed to push harder than Alonso in the race in a car that Webber couldn't stand up against Alonso and Massa.

Alonso lost the WDC in the last 3 races but also with the DNF's with Grosjean and Kimi.

This was fate revange may be for "crashgate" scandal which in my opinion cost Massa title in 2008.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:58 am 
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Dexter Morgan wrote:
I think the gripe most people have,and why I was disappointed was that Schumacher never lets anyone pass,he always puts up a fight to defend his position so it was disappointing for me to see him bow out like that


Well he didn't let Kobayashi pass did he


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:23 am 
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maninblack wrote:
If there was collusion among multiple teams to prevent Ferrari from bagging the WDC, the FIA would more likely than not have at least looked into it.

Ferrari still have the FIA in their back pocket, don't they? :-|

I didn't say any of that though. This was about the Torro Rossos and Michael Schumacher helping Vettel, not an FIA collusion.

BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Who seriously thinks Michael hates Alonso?

lol besides Mark Webber, who doesn't hate Alonso?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:51 am 
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Everyone somewhat dislikes Alonso. He's the classic number 1 driver and does whatever it takes to win. That's why he's fricken amazing. Sebastian has the same streak about him but we only see the gentle side of him because his car is powered by God. When Sebatsian has a worse car you will see him act exactly like Alonso, Schumacher, Senna. All the good drivers are sly and dirty. They'll do anything to come out ahead of their rivals and that's why we like them.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:56 am 
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Honda Quick wrote:
I think he would have moved over for Alonso as well if Alonso was that much quicker. I think as much as he may prefer Vettel, he wouldn't want to be the one to mix it with either of the title contenders and cause their retirement in the title deciding race. We're fortunate that little Senna didn't pull it off 100% and cause a serious bummer on the first lap. LOL


LOL

You mean fortunate that VETTEL didn't swerve into any more cars and take himself out???

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:30 am 
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seandean41 wrote:
Honda Quick wrote:
I think he would have moved over for Alonso as well if Alonso was that much quicker. I think as much as he may prefer Vettel, he wouldn't want to be the one to mix it with either of the title contenders and cause their retirement in the title deciding race. We're fortunate that little Senna didn't pull it off 100% and cause a serious bummer on the first lap. LOL


LOL

You mean fortunate that VETTEL didn't swerve into any more cars and take himself out???


Kind of hard to make a corner when you get dive bombed maybe?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:40 am 
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As Alonso say "You have to leave a space always a space"

Or as the rules say if a car is significantly along side you have to leave a cars width.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:59 pm 
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LucaDM is forever bitter MS left Ferrari for Merc,so its natural he would say Alonso is better then Michael just to spite him
Does Alonso respect Michael? - Yes
Is he(Alonso) angry that MS made it so easy for Vettel,thus disrecpeting him - Yes! Luca proly helped alot on that one!
Was he most likely giving MS attitude after the Brazilian Gp for it? - Most probably
Did that irritate MS to the point where he said "the better driver won" and "It wouldve been nice for Ferrari to win the Constructor"(but not even a mention of Alonso's efforts this year),just to get back at Alonso - Possibly


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