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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Montezemolo: "Ecclestone? You have to show respect for your elders, especially when they get to that stage in which they are no longer in control of what they say. However, old age is clearly incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities".

http://english.gazzetta.it/Motor_sports ... 2527.shtml


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Both should shut up!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:21 pm 
Montezemolo isn't exactly a youngster either...

Oh, and Bernie was right this time...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:33 pm 
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"Say one thing and do the exact opposite while saying that." -Classy Luca, 65 years young.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Pot calling the kettle black?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Yes, I suppose Luca should have just let Bernie shoot off his mouth and let it go, it would have been the politically right thing to do. And... if he was going to respond, he certainly could have been more "diplomatic"... but that has not been his "style" in recent years.

I don't blame Luca for responding the weasel's comments, but wish he had done it more professionally.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:19 pm 
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When push comes to shove, Monty prefers to run with the money. When has he ever really stood up to Bernie? I'm talking about the changes he wants in F1, not the Vettel incident.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Personal insults. Classy.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Personal insults. Classy.


Probably been reading the this forum, thought that was the way the rest of the world lives.... wanted to fit in.
;)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Lol @ Montezemolo. Seems he forgot how he got owned in 2008 by Bernie when he stated that Singapore race was a circus.

'Then we have to be grateful to him for providing the clowns.'

I guess the same applies here. Ferrari weren't capable of giving Alonso a better car to win the championship and after they lost it, they started acting like clowns trying to fabricate a case to win it in court.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Quote:
"The FIA received a letter from Scuderia Ferrari, seeking clarification on Sebastian Vettel's overtaking manoeuvre in São Paulo on Sunday," the FIA said in a statement. "In the spirit of transparency and goodwill, the FIA wishes to make public the receipt of this letter.


Ferrari sought clarification, which is entirely within their right and their responsibility if they are not sure of the situation. In what way is that "acting like clowns and trying to fabricate a case to win it in court"??? In reading the other thread on this topic, it is obvious that there were questions in the minds of many, so it is not like they "fabricated" a damn thing.

Some of you go beyond ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Personal insults. Classy.


Probably been reading the this forum, thought that was the way the rest of the world lives.... wanted to fit in.
;)

Maybe - didn't call him delusional though which is a must on this forum! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Blake wrote:

Probably been reading the this forum, thought that was the way the rest of the world lives.... wanted to fit in.
;)

Maybe - didn't call him delusional though which is a must on this forum! :lol:


:thumbup: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Quote:
"The FIA received a letter from Scuderia Ferrari, seeking clarification on Sebastian Vettel's overtaking manoeuvre in São Paulo on Sunday," the FIA said in a statement. "In the spirit of transparency and goodwill, the FIA wishes to make public the receipt of this letter.


Ferrari sought clarification, which is entirely within their right and their responsibility if they are not sure of the situation. In what way is that "acting like clowns and trying to fabricate a case to win it in court"??? In reading the other thread on this topic, it is obvious that there were questions in the minds of many, so it is not like they "fabricated" a damn thing.

Some of you go beyond ridiculous.


:thumbup: :thumbup:

Any team in their position would have done the same.


Imagine if it came out next year that Vettel won the championship because of an illegal pass. There would be uproar because Ferrari didn't ask for the clarification.

I seen a guy over loose a championship in the last round over something similar. By the time he reviewed the on board it was too late. At F1 level I don't think any of the teams would make the same mistake. Too much money at stake.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Ecclestone-age comments apart, which is kind of a play between them both, I find these declarations quite pertinent.
Montezemolo wrote:
"Someone said that it was scandalous that we asked the FIA for clarification over the yellow flags and that we went a bit too far. Ferrari's actions were perfectly transparent - repeated Montezemolo - as we saw the video of what happened after the race, a video that was shown on websites all over the world. We received thousands of requests from our fans and decided that a request for clarification was the most simple, correct and logical action to take.


Montezemolo wrote:
"There are a number of things that are not right in Formula One and the moment has come to finally sort them out in the appropriate places". "It is not acceptable that Formula One no longer transfers technology to our road cars. The aerodynamics is now becoming something which has nothing to do with the research. This cannot be a sport in which there is no longer testing on the track. We have run out of patience. We are car manufacturers, not sponsors. As Ecclestone said, 'it's a joke...'".


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:49 pm 
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A team director (or whatever) looses a championship, tries to find some solution in the rules an regulations, fails massively, and lunches a strike against an owner of the sport.

That's what I call going down spiral.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:24 pm 
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If I had to I would trust Bernie over Luca but I think he is right in that Ferrari had no choice than to ask the FIA if there was anything in it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:57 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
A team director (or whatever) looses a championship, tries to find some solution in the rules an regulations, fails massively, and lunches a strike against an owner of the sport.

That's what I call going down spiral.

Thank god those red devils didn't get away with it huh?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:31 am 
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chican wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
A team director (or whatever) looses a championship, tries to find some solution in the rules an regulations, fails massively, and lunches a strike against an owner of the sport.

That's what I call going down spiral.

Thank god those red devils didn't get away with it huh?

Quite unnecessary and ignorant of you.

I had a personal communication with Signor Enzo Ferrari back in 80's. I am sure he would never take the course Montezemolo has taken. Signor Enzo was never a sore loser.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:36 am 
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I must be the only one who thinks these spats keep the sport interesting. The drama is almost as entertaining as the racing.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:42 am 
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Actually, Lt., as a life-long Ferrari fan, I have to disagree with you. Enzo was no saint, or anywhere near it. I suspect that Enzo would have also asked for the clarification were he in charged.

That said, I am amused to see how many people have their noses out of joint over Ferrari even asking the question... personally, if they had any doubt, I would have been more upset if they had not asked for the clarification.

This is a non-story being made from a at worst a mole-hill into a mountain by some people with nothing better to do, or people whose dislike for Ferrari and/or Alonso overrides common sense sometimes.
;)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:53 am 
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Ferrari is the only top3 team that barely recover from the massive reg change made in 2009

They dont have elite on aero department

Bernie 's comment just add more salt on his wounds...LOL

Can see why LDM was tiddled off and asking for more F1 testing

However, i dont think his usual "bail out from the sport" statement will convince others...without F1, Ferrari is nth as well.


Last edited by NvrDieYoung on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:00 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Blake wrote:
Quote:
"The FIA received a letter from Scuderia Ferrari, seeking clarification on Sebastian Vettel's overtaking manoeuvre in São Paulo on Sunday," the FIA said in a statement. "In the spirit of transparency and goodwill, the FIA wishes to make public the receipt of this letter.


Ferrari sought clarification, which is entirely within their right and their responsibility if they are not sure of the situation. In what way is that "acting like clowns and trying to fabricate a case to win it in court"??? In reading the other thread on this topic, it is obvious that there were questions in the minds of many, so it is not like they "fabricated" a damn thing.

Some of you go beyond ridiculous.


:thumbup: :thumbup:

Any team in their position would have done the same.


Imagine if it came out next year that Vettel won the championship because of an illegal pass. There would be uproar because Ferrari didn't ask for the clarification.

I seen a guy over loose a championship in the last round over something similar. By the time he reviewed the on board it was too late. At F1 level I don't think any of the teams would make the same mistake. Too much money at stake.

I disagree with this. On what grounds were Ferrari asking for the clarification?

The onboard of Vettel's showed a green flag, which was missed by the guy posting it on youtube. So it's backwards to say that something was missed initially or that something was genuinely in doubt. It's the amateur analysis that should be rigorously checked before being relied upon for query. If we accept Ferrari making this clarification on the basis of that video then we're opening the door to results being queried based on anything that's posted on youtube, which could include doctored videos.

The lights, flags, dashboard situation has been around for several years. Any suggestion that Ferrari were unaware of how they interacted would be to suggest that they didn't understand the circumstances under which they'd been racing for quite awhile, and that they had on their car a dashboard function that they didn't understand, either.

Ferrari's clarification can only have been born out of incompetence or spite.

As for Montezemolo's comments, he just sounds ridiculous to me. Rather than discuss the substance of the matter he's childishly thrown personal insults. He can't win the argument so he's just thrown some mud at the arguer. He sounds petty and silly.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:05 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:

However, i dont think his usual "bail out from the sport" statement will convince others...without F1, Ferrari is nth as well.


Trust me, Ferrari would survive just fine without F1... They don't want that, but they would survive and do well.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:14 am 
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Blake wrote:
Actually, Lt., as a life-long Ferrari fan, I have to disagree with you. Enzo was no saint, or anywhere near it. I suspect that Enzo would have also asked for the clarification were he in charged.

That said, I am amused to see how many people have their noses out of joint over Ferrari even asking the question... personally, if they had any doubt, I would have been more upset if they had not asked for the clarification.

This is a non-story being made from a at worst a mole-hill into a mountain by some people with nothing better to do, or people whose dislike for Ferrari and/or Alonso overrides common sense sometimes.
;)

While I agree he was no saint, he always remained gentleman, retaining dignity and honor.

The main question is not will he ask for clarification, but the manner how he would do it. And he won't disgrace himself publicly going personal, like Montezemolo did.

At least, this is my impression of him.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:19 am 
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Lt.
One of my all-time favorites from this forum (not here anymore) would love to argue with you about Enzo... he positively despised him, but did grudgingly admire what he accomplished.

As I said earlier, I to don't agree with they way Luca responded, so I can't argue it with you, I wish he would have shown restraint.
:)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:22 am 
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Blake wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:

However, i dont think his usual "bail out from the sport" statement will convince others...without F1, Ferrari is nth as well.


Trust me, Ferrari would survive just fine without F1... They don't want that, but they would survive and do well.


i will trust you if you are marketing expert and know all the trend of ferrari brand worldwide.

I knew that without F1, ferrari wouldn't emerge as global brand.

F1 doesnt need ferrari, however with new generation keep emerging, the brand awareness campaign need to be effective to sustain the generation gap and maintain the brand value. F1 is perfect for that....ferrari just calling their bluff as always.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:27 am 
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Blake wrote:
Lt.
One of my all-time favorites from this forum (not here anymore) would love to argue with you about Enzo... he positively despised him, but did grudgingly admire what he accomplished.

As I said earlier, I to don't agree with they way Luca responded, so I can't argue it with you, I wish he would have shown restraint.
:)

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:30 am 
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What seems to be getting lost in the shuffle is that Luca's remarks were ageist. I'm not huge Bernie fan but Luca was out of line. It's amazing that the guy running a marquee brand like Ferrari would post such tactless comments. This is the kind of stuff you might read from fanboys on the internet, not the chairman of a multibillion dollar company.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:33 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
Blake wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:

However, i dont think his usual "bail out from the sport" statement will convince others...without F1, Ferrari is nth as well.


Trust me, Ferrari would survive just fine without F1... They don't want that, but they would survive and do well.


i will trust you if you are marketing expert and know all the trend of ferrari brand worldwide.

I knew that without F1, ferrari wouldn't emerge as global brand.

F1 doesnt need ferrari, however with new generation keep emerging, the brand awareness campaign need to be effective to sustain the generation gap and maintain the brand value. F1 is perfect for that....ferrari just calling their bluff as always.


:lol:

you just don't know when to quit, do you, nvrdieyoung.

in fact, I am a marketing director! And yes, I do know a little bit about "market awareness".

That is in addition to having followed this sport for over 50 years as opposed to my being new to it, as you suggested. Been a rough night for you, hasn't it!
:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:34 am 
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iceman_fan90 wrote:
What seems to be getting lost in the shuffle is that Luca's remarks were ageist. I'm not huge Bernie fan but Luca was out of line. It's amazing that the guy running a marquee brand like Ferrari would post such tactless comments. This is the kind of stuff you might read from fanboys on the internet, not the chairman of a multibillion dollar company.


old man tired of losing....

they need Jean Todt 2.0 who know the ingredient to win titles again, not Domenicalli that cant make major decision.

During jean 's era, LDM is powerless, and now when Domenicalli took over, he is not his own man, but rather a messenger beside LDM.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:15 am 
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NvrDieYoung, Blake is seriously right. Ferrari doesn't need F1 to sell it's cars. Ferrari rips off their customers to support their racing heritage! Commendatore Enzo himself said that, So learn from those who have seen it all, like Blake.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:53 am 
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Blake wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:
Blake wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:

However, i dont think his usual "bail out from the sport" statement will convince others...without F1, Ferrari is nth as well.


Trust me, Ferrari would survive just fine without F1... They don't want that, but they would survive and do well.


i will trust you if you are marketing expert and know all the trend of ferrari brand worldwide.

I knew that without F1, ferrari wouldn't emerge as global brand.

F1 doesnt need ferrari, however with new generation keep emerging, the brand awareness campaign need to be effective to sustain the generation gap and maintain the brand value. F1 is perfect for that....ferrari just calling their bluff as always.


:lol:

you just don't know when to quit, do you, nvrdieyoung.

in fact, I am a marketing director! And yes, I do know a little bit about "market awareness".

That is in addition to having followed this sport for over 50 years as opposed to my being new to it, as you suggested. Been a rough night for you, hasn't it!
:lol:


good, expert over here.

And if you're right, why ferrari still didn't make it out of the sport...and make their own series like LDM suggested back in 2009?? huh

there must be certain value on staying in the sport, i think you underestimate the influence of F1 on its road car side.

Merc has sold more cars during its F1 involvement certainly speak some value to the sport 's coverage itself.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:54 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
F1 doesnt need ferrari, however with new generation keep emerging, the brand awareness campaign need to be effective to sustain the generation gap and maintain the brand value. F1 is perfect for that....ferrari just calling their bluff as always.

Are you a new fan to the sport, or to the world of automobiles?

Just so you know, Ferrari is paid some money by the governing authority to compete, which is higher than teams like McLaren, Williams, RBR etc... one of the reasons why Merc was tiddled and throwing a tantrum! That said, Ferrari have a right to seek clarification. What they (including drivers) don't have a right to, is to crib about how lucky Vettel is to have good machinery etc.

Hopefully they would have a good car in 2013, and we could see Massa and Alonso at their best. Though i'm not all that hopeful. McLaren's pace is heartbreaking... even other cars look (well, they are) faster. Since nothing much has changed, but the DRS use in qualifying, i'd be pleased if Ferrari could compete in WDC, leave alone winning it. I'm expecting Lotus to make a big step forward. RBR is already ahead, if not by much and similar gap, or parity will be maintained... So it isn't going to be easy for them.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:02 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
iceman_fan90 wrote:
What seems to be getting lost in the shuffle is that Luca's remarks were ageist. I'm not huge Bernie fan but Luca was out of line. It's amazing that the guy running a marquee brand like Ferrari would post such tactless comments. This is the kind of stuff you might read from fanboys on the internet, not the chairman of a multibillion dollar company.


old man tired of losing....

they need Jean Todt 2.0 who know the ingredient to win titles again, not Domenicalli that cant make major decision.

During jean 's era, LDM is powerless, and now when Domenicalli took over, he is not his own man, but rather a messenger beside LDM.


LDM gave Todt a free hand, and with success Todt's stature rose to rival that of LDM in Ferrari... While LDM may have been the boss, but everyone knew who ran the team and made them winners they were. He disintegrated the entire team... that is perhaps the Italian way? Why? LDM didn't want multiple power centers in the heart of Ferrari. For crying out louds' sake... they showed the door to Schumacher in his prime, who even now is more than a match for most drivers out there. As capable as Domenicali is, he will never have liberties that Todt in his days had... They were different, desperate... and brave times, when Todt was at helm. One must be very mistaken, if he/ she thinks things are run the same way now.

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Last edited by garagetinkerer on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:03 am 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:
F1 doesnt need ferrari, however with new generation keep emerging, the brand awareness campaign need to be effective to sustain the generation gap and maintain the brand value. F1 is perfect for that....ferrari just calling their bluff as always.

Are you a new fan to the sport, or to the world of automobiles?

Just so you know, Ferrari is paid some money by the governing authority to compete, which is higher than teams like McLaren, Williams, RBR etc... one of the reasons why Merc was tiddled and throwing a tantrum! That said, Ferrari have a right to seek clarification. What they (including drivers) don't have a right to, is to crib about how lucky Vettel is to have good machinery etc.

Hopefully they would have a good car in 2013, and we could see Massa and Alonso at their best. Though i'm not all that hopeful. McLaren's pace is heartbreaking... even other cars look (well, they are) faster. Since nothing much has changed, but the DRS use in qualifying, i'd be pleased if Ferrari could compete in WDC, leave alone winning it. I'm expecting Lotus to make a big step forward. RBR is already ahead, if not by much and similar gap, or parity will be maintained... So it isn't going to be easy for them.


what i knew is mclaren, ferrari and rbr the top 3 team all receive certain bonus from the FOM due to the recognition of their brand being influential to the sport overall.

doesnt make ferrari any special.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:29 am 
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Ferrari's deal is sweetened with a bonus on top of their performance earnings. F1 needs Ferrari as much as Ferrari needs F1. Which is why, at the end of the day, a deal is always made.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:41 am 
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chican wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
A team director (or whatever) looses a championship, tries to find some solution in the rules an regulations, fails massively, and lunches a strike against an owner of the sport.

That's what I call going down spiral.

Thank god those red devils didn't get away with it huh?


All because Bernie, man of moral might will not stand for it.
He will bring justice for all.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:56 am 
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kai_ wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Blake wrote:
Quote:
"The FIA received a letter from Scuderia Ferrari, seeking clarification on Sebastian Vettel's overtaking manoeuvre in São Paulo on Sunday," the FIA said in a statement. "In the spirit of transparency and goodwill, the FIA wishes to make public the receipt of this letter.


Ferrari sought clarification, which is entirely within their right and their responsibility if they are not sure of the situation. In what way is that "acting like clowns and trying to fabricate a case to win it in court"??? In reading the other thread on this topic, it is obvious that there were questions in the minds of many, so it is not like they "fabricated" a damn thing.

Some of you go beyond ridiculous.


:thumbup: :thumbup:

Any team in their position would have done the same.


Imagine if it came out next year that Vettel won the championship because of an illegal pass. There would be uproar because Ferrari didn't ask for the clarification.

I seen a guy over loose a championship in the last round over something similar. By the time he reviewed the on board it was too late. At F1 level I don't think any of the teams would make the same mistake. Too much money at stake.

I disagree with this. On what grounds were Ferrari asking for the clarification?

The onboard of Vettel's showed a green flag, which was missed by the guy posting it on youtube. So it's backwards to say that something was missed initially or that something was genuinely in doubt. It's the amateur analysis that should be rigorously checked before being relied upon for query. If we accept Ferrari making this clarification on the basis of that video then we're opening the door to results being queried based on anything that's posted on youtube, which could include doctored videos.

The lights, flags, dashboard situation has been around for several years. Any suggestion that Ferrari were unaware of how they interacted would be to suggest that they didn't understand the circumstances under which they'd been racing for quite awhile, and that they had on their car a dashboard function that they didn't understand, either.

Ferrari's clarification can only have been born out of incompetence or spite.

As for Montezemolo's comments, he just sounds ridiculous to me. Rather than discuss the substance of the matter he's childishly thrown personal insults. He can't win the argument so he's just thrown some mud at the arguer. He sounds petty and silly.

I agree :thumbup: .

Luca should restrict himself to Ferrari as a business and keep out of Ferrari F1.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
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ashley313 wrote:
I must be the only one who thinks these spats keep the sport interesting. The drama is almost as entertaining as the racing.

Good point :D .


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