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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:01 pm 
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although at the time of signing (post singapore) , Perez was outperforming all the semi-rookies that was on mclaren's radar (hulkenberg,di resta,grosjean) . did mcalren choose him to widen their exposure over the world and be accepted as an international team instead of an all british team . that will attract the huge mexican fanbase that follows perez and many south americans as well , i mean in USGP 40% of the tickets were sold to Mexicans. if that was behind the move , then this is very clever from mclaren to choose him over an european driver.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Methinks it was more the huge Carlos Slim cashbase that influenced them!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:15 pm 
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I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Gimax wrote:
Methinks it was more the huge Carlos Slim cashbase that influenced them!

:thumbup: Should not be underestimated

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:31 pm 
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no.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:10 pm 
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As said before, probably to get the huge Mexican sponsorship

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Gimax wrote:
Methinks it was more the huge Carlos Slim cashbase that influenced them!


how do they get money from him if they cant advertise any telmex logos because of vodafone

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Whitmarsh pretty much said they have saturated the British market by having two British drivers by having Perez they get American and Mexican fans based on the number of Mexican descendants in america. Also even with slims cash there are other companies that can be added to McLarens portfolio, it was a case of exciting rookie, that can be taken from under Ferrari, open up new markets it was the ideal scenario. Of course since he has been indifferent at best.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:51 pm 
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I seriously doubt that McLaren was concerned about getting the Mexican fan base, and more interested in Slim's money, what appeared to be the best of the new F1 talent, taking Perez from the Ferrari academy, and if they got recognized as being a bit more international... well that was good too. However, in that respect, I think Mexico was just convenient, had Perez been from any other country, they still would have signed him if they could.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:18 pm 
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RebellionLola wrote:
Gimax wrote:
Methinks it was more the huge Carlos Slim cashbase that influenced them!


how do they get money from him if they cant advertise any telmex logos because of vodafone



And the fact it's not happening, no money is going McLarens way. They are paying Sergio.

Hence why Carlos is still paying Sauber.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Having a possibility of Slim´s sponsorship at some time in the future can be tempting, but Perez at his 22 has shown a hell lot of promise and still the strongest bet for any team. Yes, still a bet, as so Vettel was at his 22 signing to Red Bull. I wouldn´t consider Di Resta as a competition, and both Hulk and Maldonado are in their 26, so imagine where can Perez be in 4 years if things work out for him.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Don't foget the Vodafone deal runs out soon and hasn't (as far as I know) been renewed... Telmex Mclaren-Honda for 2014?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:23 pm 
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They don't need cash from Carlos Slim, Mclaren already have the roadcar business and one their shareholders is the Bahrain royal family.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:19 pm 
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They may get sponsorship from Slim, but McLaren has historically not had a problem with getting sponsorship and it has an international fan base already. Fittipaldi, Lauda, Prost, Senna and Raikkonen all helped build a fan base outside of Britain. Perez is there on merit first and anything else that follows is a bonus.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:32 pm 
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froze wrote:
I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.


I'm sure Slim's money, potential sponsorship (as well as seeing a benefit of not having both drivers from the UK) played a significant role.

As well as someone pointed out, taking a Ferrari protege, but I do as well feel timing played a significant role, and wanting to react rather than having to have their hand dealt to them later. Perez was the hottest thing through the start of the season, and just an early Massa firing away from landing in a Ferrari. but then Massa started his comeback, McLaren found itself in need of a driver and Perez seemed like the best option at the time.

But I do feel if the decision was made in November, there would be a Hulk next to Button next year, as he seemed to progress while Perez seemed to tread water over the second half of the season with the culmination being the hugely disappointing weekend for Sauber in Austin in front of his 'home crowd.'


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:25 am 
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Carlos Slim may view F1 as a good way to "show off" the companies he owns in Brazil and not in Mexico. Considering he has almost 90 million eyeballs glued to the TV in Brazil, for every race,why play with a few cats in Mexico. Telmex owns Embratel and he has cel phone companies in Brazil also.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:16 am 
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IMO their decision was partially made because they didn't want to look 'caught out' by Hamilton leaving them and not have a driver in the second seat and also by waiting and then potentially not being able to promote the right image around the driver in the second seat. This doesn't look good to sponsors. It's different if they could have potentially pulled off getting Vettel, Alonso or Raikkonen to drive, but because they weren't an option IMO they had to make it appear that they were totally on the ball and Hamilton's departure wasn't too much of a big deal so signing Perez with such confidence was the way to go.

I agree that overall there could have proven to be better possibilities as the year progressed. Hulkenberg is personally the one that I think should be in that seat.

I genuinely don't think sponsorship or fan base played a huge role. McLaren have no trouble attracting sponsors as they have a very attractive image and they're well-known and well-regarded worldwide and have fans everywhere thanks to the drivers they have had in the past. I'm sure it wasn't a negative or a drawback, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:41 am 
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economy is shrinking..........

I heard that at least 3 teams are fighting for honeywell sponsorship currently (mclaren, williams and lotus)

just showed you how important is it in gaining more financial backing


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:52 am 
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Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
froze wrote:
I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.


I'm sure Slim's money, potential sponsorship (as well as seeing a benefit of not having both drivers from the UK) played a significant role.

As well as someone pointed out, taking a Ferrari protege, but I do as well feel timing played a significant role, and wanting to react rather than having to have their hand dealt to them later. Perez was the hottest thing through the start of the season, and just an early Massa firing away from landing in a Ferrari. but then Massa started his comeback, McLaren found itself in need of a driver and Perez seemed like the best option at the time.

But I do feel if the decision was made in November, there would be a Hulk next to Button next year, as he seemed to progress while Perez seemed to tread water over the second half of the season with the culmination being the hugely disappointing weekend for Sauber in Austin in front of his 'home crowd.'


Hulkenberg in 2012 scored Eleven top 10 Finishes ZERO podiums. 63 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Singapore GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2010.

Perez in 2012 scored Six top 10 finishes THREE podiums. 66 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Monaco GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2011.

So Hulk has had one extra year in F1 but yet has ZERO podiums versus Sergio. I'll give him that he did score more top 10's versus Sergio in 2012. If Checo is already as quick and scoring points and podiums at this rate I can't wait to see what he can do in a better car with a better team behind him. No disrespect towards Sauber but Mclaren is a better outfit.

Oh and in Austin Checo was having brake issues so yeah it was a disappointment that he could not do better but if the car was not performing what the hell was he supposed to do?

Hulk showed me he can't close deal in the clutch, he should have scored his first podium in Brazil.

But hey 2013 will be here soon enough and if Checo falls flat on his face all the haters can say see we told you Hulk would have been a better choice ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:02 am 
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DRSENABLED wrote:
Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
froze wrote:
I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.


I'm sure Slim's money, potential sponsorship (as well as seeing a benefit of not having both drivers from the UK) played a significant role.

As well as someone pointed out, taking a Ferrari protege, but I do as well feel timing played a significant role, and wanting to react rather than having to have their hand dealt to them later. Perez was the hottest thing through the start of the season, and just an early Massa firing away from landing in a Ferrari. but then Massa started his comeback, McLaren found itself in need of a driver and Perez seemed like the best option at the time.

But I do feel if the decision was made in November, there would be a Hulk next to Button next year, as he seemed to progress while Perez seemed to tread water over the second half of the season with the culmination being the hugely disappointing weekend for Sauber in Austin in front of his 'home crowd.'


Hulkenberg in 2012 scored Eleven top 10 Finishes ZERO podiums. 63 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Singapore GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2010.

Perez in 2012 scored Six top 10 finishes THREE podiums. 66 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Monaco GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2011.

So Hulk has had one extra year in F1 but yet has ZERO podiums versus Sergio. I'll give him that he did score more top 10's versus Sergio in 2012. If Checo is already as quick and scoring points and podiums at this rate I can't wait to see what he can do in a better car with a better team behind him. No disrespect towards Sauber but Mclaren is a better outfit.

Oh and in Austin Checo was having brake issues so yeah it was a disappointment that he could not do better but if the car was not performing what the hell was he supposed to do?

Hulk showed me he can't close deal in the clutch, he should have scored his first podium in Brazil.

But hey 2013 will be here soon enough and if Checo falls flat on his face all the haters can say see we told you Hulk would have been a better choice ;)


your comparison is so flaw.

one more year than sergio?? you did realize Hulkenberg didnt race in 2011 right??

and the sauber is much better car than force india.

The Hulk is so much better than Sergio.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:02 am 
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DRSENABLED wrote:
Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
froze wrote:
I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.


I'm sure Slim's money, potential sponsorship (as well as seeing a benefit of not having both drivers from the UK) played a significant role.

As well as someone pointed out, taking a Ferrari protege, but I do as well feel timing played a significant role, and wanting to react rather than having to have their hand dealt to them later. Perez was the hottest thing through the start of the season, and just an early Massa firing away from landing in a Ferrari. but then Massa started his comeback, McLaren found itself in need of a driver and Perez seemed like the best option at the time.

But I do feel if the decision was made in November, there would be a Hulk next to Button next year, as he seemed to progress while Perez seemed to tread water over the second half of the season with the culmination being the hugely disappointing weekend for Sauber in Austin in front of his 'home crowd.'


Hulkenberg in 2012 scored Eleven top 10 Finishes ZERO podiums. 63 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Singapore GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2010.

Perez in 2012 scored Six top 10 finishes THREE podiums. 66 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Monaco GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2011.

So Hulk has had one extra year in F1 but yet has ZERO podiums versus Sergio. I'll give him that he did score more top 10's versus Sergio in 2012. If Checo is already as quick and scoring points and podiums at this rate I can't wait to see what he can do in a better car with a better team behind him. No disrespect towards Sauber but Mclaren is a better outfit.

Oh and in Austin Checo was having brake issues so yeah it was a disappointment that he could not do better but if the car was not performing what the hell was he supposed to do?

Hulk showed me he can't close deal in the clutch, he should have scored his first podium in Brazil.

But hey 2013 will be here soon enough and if Checo falls flat on his face all the haters can say see we told you Hulk would have been a better choice ;)


your comparison is so flaw.

one more year than sergio?? you did realize Hulkenberg didnt race in 2011 right??

and the sauber is much better car than force india.

The Hulk is so much better than Sergio.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:37 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
DRSENABLED wrote:
Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
froze wrote:
I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.


I'm sure Slim's money, potential sponsorship (as well as seeing a benefit of not having both drivers from the UK) played a significant role.

As well as someone pointed out, taking a Ferrari protege, but I do as well feel timing played a significant role, and wanting to react rather than having to have their hand dealt to them later. Perez was the hottest thing through the start of the season, and just an early Massa firing away from landing in a Ferrari. but then Massa started his comeback, McLaren found itself in need of a driver and Perez seemed like the best option at the time.

But I do feel if the decision was made in November, there would be a Hulk next to Button next year, as he seemed to progress while Perez seemed to tread water over the second half of the season with the culmination being the hugely disappointing weekend for Sauber in Austin in front of his 'home crowd.'


Hulkenberg in 2012 scored Eleven top 10 Finishes ZERO podiums. 63 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Singapore GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2010.

Perez in 2012 scored Six top 10 finishes THREE podiums. 66 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Monaco GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2011.

So Hulk has had one extra year in F1 but yet has ZERO podiums versus Sergio. I'll give him that he did score more top 10's versus Sergio in 2012. If Checo is already as quick and scoring points and podiums at this rate I can't wait to see what he can do in a better car with a better team behind him. No disrespect towards Sauber but Mclaren is a better outfit.

Oh and in Austin Checo was having brake issues so yeah it was a disappointment that he could not do better but if the car was not performing what the hell was he supposed to do?

Hulk showed me he can't close deal in the clutch, he should have scored his first podium in Brazil.

But hey 2013 will be here soon enough and if Checo falls flat on his face all the haters can say see we told you Hulk would have been a better choice ;)


your comparison is so flaw.

one more year than sergio?? you did realize Hulkenberg didnt race in 2011 right??

and the sauber is much better car than force india.

The Hulk is so much better than Sergio.



Sorry, but I don't have anything against Perez. So the whole 'hater' stuff is silly IMO. I wish him well with McLaren. But the timing of McLaren's decision played in his favor, just as had a decision even earlier in the year, may have meant Maldonado being in the discussion had it come before the late stages in Valencia.

Just stating that it was not a good weekend in Austin after much build up, not just for Perez, but also Kobayashi. In P2, under track conditions similar to qualifying and race times, he was 14th, in Qualifying they were 15th and 16th in both Q1 and Q2. It was actually a much worse weekend for Sauber than Perez IMO, but given the hype and buildup to score out of the points was a very disappointing result for both drivers and the team, it was hardly the weekend I'm sure they envisioned in front of such strong support.

IMO, Hulk had a stronger 2nd half overall with a car that was likely weaker, while Perez was significantly better in the 1st half than the 2nd half. I think with driver and team there was unfulfilled promise as I think during the 1st part of the season, Sauber and Perez seemed most likely to be the next winner over Lotus. Some I suspect falls on the driver, though to a greater degree the team for failing to keep pace in development as other teams did.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:58 am 
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There have have been may instances in F1 where people thought a different driver deserved a particular seat, but went on to perform well in it. I think Perez will surprise us all. An about Mclaren trying to tap Mexican Fanbase/Sponsorship. Yes more money is always good for ay team, but IMO Mclaren are well established to be desperate to do that. All the top 3 teams would look for More talent than the fanbase. It is always the case and always has been.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:36 am 
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Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:
DRSENABLED wrote:
Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
froze wrote:
I think it's either Slim's money or a panic to sign someone before Merc announced Lewis. I still think they should've signed Hulkenberg. Perez seems to be like Massa 2.0, both in good and bad except I doubt he'd settle for a second fiddle. We'll just have to see how he fits there especially if Button has the number one status.


I'm sure Slim's money, potential sponsorship (as well as seeing a benefit of not having both drivers from the UK) played a significant role.

As well as someone pointed out, taking a Ferrari protege, but I do as well feel timing played a significant role, and wanting to react rather than having to have their hand dealt to them later. Perez was the hottest thing through the start of the season, and just an early Massa firing away from landing in a Ferrari. but then Massa started his comeback, McLaren found itself in need of a driver and Perez seemed like the best option at the time.

But I do feel if the decision was made in November, there would be a Hulk next to Button next year, as he seemed to progress while Perez seemed to tread water over the second half of the season with the culmination being the hugely disappointing weekend for Sauber in Austin in front of his 'home crowd.'


Hulkenberg in 2012 scored Eleven top 10 Finishes ZERO podiums. 63 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Singapore GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2010.

Perez in 2012 scored Six top 10 finishes THREE podiums. 66 Points in 2012. One Fast Lap @ Monaco GP 2012. Racing in F1 since 2011.

So Hulk has had one extra year in F1 but yet has ZERO podiums versus Sergio. I'll give him that he did score more top 10's versus Sergio in 2012. If Checo is already as quick and scoring points and podiums at this rate I can't wait to see what he can do in a better car with a better team behind him. No disrespect towards Sauber but Mclaren is a better outfit.

Oh and in Austin Checo was having brake issues so yeah it was a disappointment that he could not do better but if the car was not performing what the hell was he supposed to do?

Hulk showed me he can't close deal in the clutch, he should have scored his first podium in Brazil.

But hey 2013 will be here soon enough and if Checo falls flat on his face all the haters can say see we told you Hulk would have been a better choice ;)


your comparison is so flaw.

one more year than sergio?? you did realize Hulkenberg didnt race in 2011 right??

and the sauber is much better car than force india.

The Hulk is so much better than Sergio.



Sorry, but I don't have anything against Perez. So the whole 'hater' stuff is silly IMO. I wish him well with McLaren. But the timing of McLaren's decision played in his favor, just as had a decision even earlier in the year, may have meant Maldonado being in the discussion had it come before the late stages in Valencia.

Just stating that it was not a good weekend in Austin after much build up, not just for Perez, but also Kobayashi. In P2, under track conditions similar to qualifying and race times, he was 14th, in Qualifying they were 15th and 16th in both Q1 and Q2. It was actually a much worse weekend for Sauber than Perez IMO, but given the hype and buildup to score out of the points was a very disappointing result for both drivers and the team, it was hardly the weekend I'm sure they envisioned in front of such strong support.

IMO, Hulk had a stronger 2nd half overall with a car that was likely weaker, while Perez was significantly better in the 1st half than the 2nd half. I think with driver and team there was unfulfilled promise as I think during the 1st part of the season, Sauber and Perez seemed most likely to be the next winner over Lotus. Some I suspect falls on the driver, though to a greater degree the team for failing to keep pace in development as other teams did.



It plays silly that many state the Sauber car is stronger than the Foce India, I mean car development is a DYNAMIC issue, Sauber was clearly stronger at the first half and maybe a little bit after that, but fallen behind really low in last races, being closer to STR, while Force India had clear progress.
However if decision was about to me made in November, Checo would still get the McLaren Drive, since he wouldn´t have taken too many risks trying to impress or win a race with Sauber (which was his goal) So he would have driven more conservative instead of driving for "all or nothing" as he drove some of the last races, not to mention Sauber screwed up at least a couple of the final races with terrible strategies. As a reference, he outqualified Koba all 5 last races straight for those who hadn´t noticed.
I still think Hulk is a great driver and deserves a top seat soon, but 3 podiums this season and 4 years less in age (22 vs 26) deffinitely plays on Checo side and I think he´ll shut so many mouths this 2013 season


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:21 pm 
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DRSENABLED wrote:
Oh and in Austin Checo was having brake issues so yeah it was a disappointment that he could not do better but if the car was not performing what the hell was he supposed to do?


Exactly! Seemingly outracing Kobayashi by 30 seconds, who had perfectly working car, in a car which had brake issues is not good enough for some people. Hamilton in a very fast car with funky suspension in Korea finished 10th, which was magnificent drive. Perez finished 11th in USA in a midfield car with brake problems (let's ask Alonso how important are working brakes after his drive in Canada '07) and despite that he outraced his teammate by 30 seconds - it's 'hugely disappointing'. Go figure :dead:

DRSENABLED wrote:
But hey 2013 will be here soon enough and if Checo falls flat on his face all the haters can say see we told you Hulk would have been a better choice ;)


Haha, yep. The good thing is he can prove a lot of people wrong and hopefully he will. Fingers crossed for very good season in McLaren :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Perez is a win-win for McLaren in so many different ways. It's hard to know where to start.

1. At the time of signing, he was easily the best option. Even Mercedes admitted that he was their next target if they didn't get Hamilton. Hulk only had two top five finishes in races where several frontrunners crashed out. Maldonado was a crashaholic. Perez was a no-brainer.
2. Perez has shown winning pace in wet and dry. Unlike Hulkenberg, he has some inconsistency, but nowhere near as bad as Maldonado and Grosjean showed this season.
3. Nabbing Ferrari's young star was always a good idea. Who knows, maybe this is history repeating itself Gilles Villeneuve style, but the other way round?
4. McLaren may now have the ideal blend of youth and experience.
5. As a long-term project, Perez could end up maturing into a worthy Hamilton successor and future team leader. In the meantime, they have another driver who they know can be WDC.
6. If he fails, you can always dip back into the driver market.
7. Perez has established his ability relative to a decent benchmark in Kobayashi.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:37 pm 
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You just know, there was something else along with Perez to sweeten the deal.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Hulk is so good no top team considered him

Red Bull didn't as possible webber replacement
Ferrari didn't for Massa's seat
McLaren didn't for Hamilton's seat
Mercedes stated Perez was the option if Lewis stayed at McLaren and this is the telling one.. A German team and they don't even want this German driver?! Says he's not as good as some think really

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:38 pm 
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G1n wrote:
You just know, there was something else along with Perez to sweeten the deal.

Pray tell what's that?

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