planetf1.com

We all know about Alonso and Ferrari's underhanded tactics over the years but reading this opinion piece on PF1 that lays it all out in one article really makes one reflect on it http://www.planetf1.com/editorial/8295279/Opinion-Losing-It. How long can the FIA deem such behavior as in any way acceptable? What kind of example does this set for the kids watching when they see one of the standard-bearers of the sport behave in such unsporting manner? I fear that all this will drag down the reputation of F1, clearly Luca and Fernando don't give a damn about the reputation of the sport when they raise questions about the legitimacy of the world champion. Looks like Bernie is finally starting to see the light but I fear the damage might already be done. Now that Ferrari's claims are widely acknoledged as bogus, FIA should make Ferrari publically apologize to Vettel & Red Bull, that's the only way this mess can be resolved and respect restored to F1 in the eyes of the public. It will also make sure that in the future teams don't go out spewing complete crap without having anything to back it up

Lol...

Surely Ferrari were purely commenting on rumours that Vettel had passed under yellow without having done their own investigations...

They would've had said rumour dumped on them in an interview and would've said something like "we will have to look into that"

No protest was lodged so I don't see what the problem was here!

_________________
[[[[Mark Webber for the win in 2013 and beyond]]]
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[http://www.octanic.com]]]]]]]]]]]]

They hardly did anything wrong. Even if they had of protested the overtake it would be because tjey thought such was an illegal action: nothing dishonourable about that

_________________
Wise words from Martin Brundle:
“Rob Smedley should have been a driver; he's wasted as an engineer.”

That article is a biased poor excuse piece of shit journalism, but it statifies you, so I guess it reached it's intended audience. It is full of suppositions, unsubstantiated claims and dubious conclusions. Only PF1 would have even published it... which is why I seldom read the PF1 homepage, something that most of us who have frequented this forum for years have learned to do.

Do you honestly believe that that Ferrari's request for clarification of questionable situation is BTSID? Have you any clue what Bringing the Sport into Disrepute really is? I seriously doubt it. Ferrari has nothing to apologize for, they acted within their rights and in the proper manner in requesting clarification. If you and the other anti-Ferrari/Alonso faction of this forum (and the person who wrote the article) can't handle it, that is your problem, not theirs!

This is such massive overreaction that it defies belief. Get over it.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

Alonso did brought disgrace to the sport by blackmailing his TP and exchange the information of KImi 's car, strategy, fuel load, pit stop with Mike Coughlan via email.

Make his teammate crash to win in 2008

The karma serve him well, he might not able to win another title again in his life.

That's very malicious. I'm sure he will win another one.

Let us see the proof of your accusations or you best be quiet.

This offseason is going to painful with such crap being posted almost daily. I wish the Mods luck!

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

I'm not gonna debate spygate but Alonso never made Piquet Jr crash (whether he knew about the plan or not)

_________________
Wise words from Martin Brundle:
“Rob Smedley should have been a driver; he's wasted as an engineer.”

Proof?? go read the FIA report regarding the blackmailing and email exchange claims.

Better shut up if you just follow the sport recently...and pls read more

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/09/14/a ... unishment/

I am well aware of Spygate... and I have read extensively on it... Trust me, I have made the argument against McLaren in that situation so many times that the forum tired of it, greatly. So don't think you are educating me on anything.

However, I defy you to show me PROOF "that Alonso made his teammate crash to win in 2008". You give me that irrefutable proof, I will not only shut up, but apologize to the whole damn forum... Until then, don't be telling me to "shut up".

Lastly, NvrDieYoung.... I have not died YOUNG, and I Have not just followed the sport recently... I have followed the sport since the 1950s !!! And I have "read more" since the mid 1950s, as that was the only way I could follow the sport. Just in-case your math is lacking, that is over FIFTY years of following the sport... Anything else you would like to lecture me about?


P.S.
I also did not just join this forum just over a month ago when you did... but perhaps you did not notice that. And the 2002 is the date assigned after the great forum crash of 2002, when all forum members were registered... a few of us were members before 2002.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

It fits the usual pattern of behavior for both Fernando and Ferrari. Nothing about it surprises me and I expect there is worse to come if they don't win the title next year. What I would like to know is whether Fernando pressured the team to do this or if they would have done it anyway. The article you reference suggests the former but doesn't provide any proof. Neither scenario would surprise me but if it was Fernando then I wonder what the long term effects will be because it turned out to be a PR disaster for the team.

and you for Implying Blake's a newbie.

Besides that, wow the Nando and Ferrari hate is nearly boiling over. Depending on what videos you could get your hands on it looked like Seb had passed under yellows. Footage implying he did was MUCH easier to find than the one which showed the marshal and his flag. Once it had come to light, that was it, end of, bring on 2013.

i dont really care how long you hv been here.

A guy that involve in spygate was also involve in crahgate as well....

The controvery just follow him...and you expect people to believe he knew nth about it??

stop kidding urself LOL

Maybe Fernando is the victim of some vast conspiracy to tarnish his reputation? That might explain his extraordinary bad luck in always seeming to find controversy wherever he goes?

You made the claim... so prove it.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

You need some new hobbies. These anti-Alonso/anti-Ferrari tirades are rather tiring.

I mean, the season is over, why are you still going on about this? Nobody, aside from the bizarrely fanatical* NvrDieYoung, is reading/listening anymore.


*Alonso fanatic that is. Seems to be the only driver they can talk about.

_________________
"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

he won the race. Nelson Jr crash for whose benefit?? and who benefit the most in this situation?? Prove me wrong

Everyone aware of his manipulation on teammate behavior in the past.....particularly 2007, when he kept ask the team to move lewis out of the way and let him win.

TR in 2007 season review

Lewis Hamilton benefitted most.

_________________
"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

answer the challenge... you said it, you back it up.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

You and me both know what Ferrari was trying to do. They were trying to put an asterix next to this championship but it backfired and now they are backtracking. I see it as an attempt to delegitimize the 2012 World Champion and thereby take the blame off them. Essentially this was an attempt to give Ferrari fans and the Italian media fodder to claim that the world championship was stolen from them. Very similar to how the birthers attempt to delegitimize Obama as the president by questioning his citizenship, just like Ferrari they are within their rights to ask to see a birth certificate but it doesn't change the fact that the reasoning behind it is utterly crap. Even if we give Ferrari the benefit of doubt as you are insisting, there's still nothing unreasonable about expecting an apology. In the real world if you say something wrong or wrongly accuse somebody the least you are expected to do is deliver an apology Ferrari must do the following things to make up for it:

1. Publically apologize to Vettel, Red Bull and F1 fans in general.
2. And reaffirm that Vettel is the true champion of 2012.

Otherwise the Italian media and significant proportion of Ferrari fans will keep repeating the meme that "Vettel stole the championship" from them. It will also make sure that other sports see F1 as a sport that takes itself seriously.

I've collected enough premises to support my claim.

If you intend to turn it over, pls provide some premises as well.

It's impossible to prove either way but of course Massa said that Fernando knew and many other drivers say so in private (according to James Allen). Piquet Jr said at the time that if he were Alonso, he would have questioned the "senseless" fuel and pit stop strategy that they chose for Fernando in the race. None of that is proof of course, which is why the FIA had to clear him, but overall I think you'd have to be a big Alonso fan to believe 100% in his innocence. Especially given all the other controversy that has followed him around.

you said...


You have proven nothing. And as it was not I who made the claim, it is not my responsibility to back it up with proof or to disprove it. Obviously, you cannot back it up with proof, only "premises" and suppositions... which would have been fine had you not made such a forceful comment to begin with and allowed for the possibility you were wrong. However, you did not do that, and I have called you on it.

I am perfectly safe in asking you to prove your statement, knowing full well that you cannot do so. So why don't you just cut your losses and move on, as I intend to do. This is going nowhere, so I will let you off the 'Hook'

Az1,
Didn't Piquet just recently say that Alonso did not know? It seems like I saw that mentioned???

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

i hv proven my statement is completely viable, that's more than enough.

FIA didnt penalize him when he was involve in email trading F2007 secret, its not surprising that he wasnt penalize at all in 2008 when Flavio generally took all the blame and secure his protege.

I hadn't heard that but maybe?

Blake, let this troll message die. Guy's a jerk.

For everyone else, there is an honest discussion about the relative merits / dismerits in civil tones and without the hyperbole over at

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5511&start=80

Trolls not invited.

Regards.

alonso gained respect for his driving and thats what it matters.

rest bringing in disgrace to the sport i strongly believe that what ever claims "NvrDieYoung" made seem to be nothing but true

nt interested...must be full with delusional people singing praises on how innocent alonso is.

Over rated and over biased thread. baah!!!

_________________
KIMI: Yeah,Winning feels good.But I am not the type of guy to jump up and down and rub it in everyone's face.

holy hell blake, you're a fossil! I had you pinned for a late-teens Alonso fanboy

_________________
We want heroes, but there are few, mainly it's cars - Pedro De La Rosa

Very nice piece. Listed all the reasons why I hate Alonso's character and justifies the term "crybaby" or "whiner" when someone calls him that.

But that also could be the reason why he's always up there fighting for WDC, he wants it at any cost. Good for the sport or not, F1 always needs a character like Alonso who so many love to hate.

There was a suspicion that Vettel had overtaken under yellow flags an incident which could have been missed by the marshals. I think Ferrari were right to at least raise a question about it. Remember they did not raise an official protest they merely asked if there was Red Bull broke the rules or not.

That article is crap. That article was written with defending Red Bull in mind. If Red Bull and Vettel this indeed break the rules are you telling me that Ferrari are not within their rights to protest. Not protesting, and having a WDC that won it via an illegal move is bringing the sport into disrepute

Now the issue is cleared. The move was legal and Vettel won the WDC fair and square. I'm a Ferrari fan, not so much an Alonso fan. Never took a liking to that guy. Ferrari lost the WDC after the summer break. Red Bull brought their A game and Ferrari were no where. The fastest driver in the best package won the WDC therefore Ferrari does not deserve it.

You have to face it, Kimi lost his seat to Alonso. End of story.

The editor who wrote that article didn't prove Alonso was behind the clarification. BBC said "Alonso is believed to be behind", yet people may believe whatever they want. Truth is that there is no fact supporting that but a criptic twit. BTW According to Autosport Fernando is not believed to be behind.

Edit: source corrected

La Gazzetta....reliable source indeed.....NOT

As another poster pointed out a while ago (on another thread), Ferrari would have had far more data on this incident than us posters - yet posters came up with evidence v quickly showing that there was a green flag. Odd then, that Ferrari would not admit immediately that there was a green flag and the overtake was legal.

Anyway, Alonso is a 'great' racing driver but (like Schumi), his career will be forever tarnished by a few badly judged incidents.

Having said this, at least Schumi's were in the 'heat of the moment', and I can't remember him throwing a wobbly when things didn't go his way - unlike Alonso...

Sorry, it was Autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104687

Kimi deserved to lose his seat to Alonso as he hadn't performed as well as expected.

We know that 1) Alonso tried to blackmail Ron Dennis in '07 2) was v angry that he wasn't treated as the no. 1 driver 3) accused Renault of not supporting him in '06 4) declared that F1 was no longer a sport in '06 - and I'm sure there are many others. Its not a huge leap to assume that he knew about the Singapore crash (although I doubt it was his idea) and was party to the decision to question the overtake in the last race.

We have no evidence to suggest that Alonso was in the know of what happened in Singapore. All we can do is speculate and theorize. Given his relationship with Flavio it is very hard to believe that he did not have the faintest of idea on what was going on.

It really is just speculation, Flavio might just as well have hid it to make sure Alonso wasn't exposed. We'll never know.

You guys are going bonkers with the evidence thing!!

You can never prove a negative, but that doesn't mean it wasn't!

If everything had a very clear evidence, then why are we even debating anything over here. As fans of the sport we have exposure to so many stories and events that we are aware of, so any intelligent fan can put things together and come up with a theory, some are ridiculous but others are very acceptable and believable, with some stories backing them up

Prove to me that Ferrari didn't sabotage Kimi's reputation and didn't want him to win the WDC in 2008? if you don't have a proof that means I'm right, right?

This is getting ridiculous