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Will Mclaren be a challenger for the 2013 title?
YES 63%  63%  [ 70 ]
NO 18%  18%  [ 20 ]
MAYBE 20%  20%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 112
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 Post subject: MCLAREN: WOES TO WINS??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:25 am 
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Opinion: Will Mclaren leave the 2012 debacle behind and rise up to challenge the 2013 title?

Important Note: This is a discussion about every aspect of the "TEAM". Qualifying, Strategy, Reliabilty etc. Slandering of Drivers, Team Principals and other members is not encouraged at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:38 am 
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They're always a challenger until their car breaks down.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:45 am 
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Race2win wrote:
Opinion: Will Mclaren leave the 2012 debacle behind and rise up to challenge the 2013 title?

No and yes. McLaren's default setting seems to be to challenge for the title whilst in the midst of a debacle. That should be their corporate slogan.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:51 am 
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Yes they will be title challengers. Apart from finishing 5th in '04 and the exclusion in '07 they have been a top 3 constructor, and without checking I bet the gap to 4th was quite considerable. They will always be there or there abouts. With regs staying pretty stable for '13 I think they have a very strong car. Probably the best at the end of this season. The biggest thing that could hurt their campaign is how well Checo performs, no doubt he is a strong driver, but can he translate that with the added 'McLaren' pressure?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:29 am 
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I wouldn't call it slandering, all I would write is that I'm confident the team will have a car that is capable of delivering the championship and they have two good drivers. I'm just not sure they are quite as good as the rivals around them and I fear they will be pipped to the post again.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:51 am 
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IMO it's very likely that McLaren will have a car capable of challenging for the championship(s). Their car was definitely in the top 3 this year and considerably ahead of the fourth best car. Indeed I think that overall it was the best car in terms of qualifying and the race and certainly by the end of the year it was better than the competition.

What I think cost McLaren better results this year was reliability and team and strategy blunders. So part of what they have to resolve are those things in order to be a contender.

Another question-mark next year will be the Pirelli tyres. We saw at the start of this year that teams struggled to understand them in relation to their cars so even if the car was ultimately good that wasn't always reflected in the overall results. We may see something similar next year.

In addition, I think where McLaren may have a problem is with the drivers. Button is renowned for needing the car/tyres/set-up to be to his liking. His performance was severely damaged this year by that not being the case, even though McLaren had a good car. So the same may be true next year. Perez is a big unknown, but IMO it's unlikely he'll step up and be a challenger his first year in the team. There's a lot of adjustment to go through and I also still have a few doubts about the depth of his talent. I'm not convinced of his raw pace, his overtaking ability or his adaptability. I'm not saying he doesn't have those capabilities, just that as of this point I still don't know.

What I think is likely to happen next year is that McLaren have a contending car and either Button is superb OR it's a bit of a disaster with him like this year.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:56 am 
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Button will be challenger. Perez will take time to adapt, and if he succeeds he might become regular podium finisher and occasional winner in 2nd half of the season. There was nothing wrong with Mclaren this year, they could easily win the championship was it not for the unreliability and box work failures. Mclaren just needs to keep this design and give little enhancements here and there, and they will win it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:01 pm 
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It will be interesting to see if they finally follow the trend of going with the high chassis.

If they do they will need to catchup to the rest with 2/3 years experience of that lay out.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Personally, even I feel the the car good if not the best this year, what let them down was the strategy, pitstops and reliabilty. Then again they had Sam Michael who was new and he was trying a few new things like even shorter pitstops etc. So it understandable that a few mistakes were commited. But towards the end the pitstop isseus and strategy part were sorted out. So that leaves only the reliabilty part. Thats up to the Merc and the design team if that is sorted out I feel they might even with the WCC next year

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Its hard to imagine they won't be in the running, when was the last time they weren't in the running? They've always been there or thereabouts. Jenson was the closest to Vettel in 2011, Hamilton went all the way to the last round in 2010, 2009 was probably the only recent year that they had no chance... but they still got some wins that year. I imagine they'll be in the title picture again in 2013.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:37 pm 
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McLaren will challenge for the title but they won't win it.

Button/Perez's poor qualifying will eventually let them down again along with reliability issues which has been there since 2010 imo, and still hasn't really been resolved.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Sheepgobba wrote:
McLaren will challenge for the title but they won't win it.

Button/Perez's poor qualifying will eventually let them down again along with reliability issues which has been there since 2010 imo, and still hasn't really been resolved.


Ferrari this year have shown qualifying to be important, might have cost them the title! Could be the same problem for McLaren next year, depends how good the car is, and how well it can switch the tyres on.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Mclaren are always in it.

but next year i think they should win it, the 2012 car was the fastest of the field but was only hampered by reliability and some poor team calls so theoretically the 2013 should be a tiny bit slower (due to improved reliability) and a bit faster (development) so should be also the fastest of the field unless RBR, Lotus, Mercedes, Ferrari can come up with new things to counter them.

I think it is theirs to lose as they have a very solid foundation to improve upon, and with Button as the default team leader they should also have the right strategy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Yes, end of.

Unless they do a 2009 which is unlikely due to regs barely changing.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Might I be so bold (and perhaps catastrophically wrong) to suggest that Button isn't actually a poor qualifier, and simply a tenth or two lacking in raw pace in comparison to Hamilton, who is regarded as being one of the best qualifiers in the field?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:21 pm 
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They almost always are, and will continue to do so in 2013.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Floppy_Boy wrote:
Might I be so bold (and perhaps catastrophically wrong) to suggest that Button isn't actually a poor qualifier, and simply a tenth or two lacking in raw pace in comparison to Hamilton, who is regarded as being one of the best qualifiers in the field?


I kind of agree here, in 2010 he was 0.16s off, 2011 0.2 off and 2012 0.25s off.

aside from 2012 which he had a 5 race period struggle i would say he is around 0.15-0.2s off Lewis which is not really that bad. can lose him pole positions though, but JB's race craft is so good he can win them back in the race. I don't think anyone is better than him in that area.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:58 am 
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They had the fastest car in 2012, if they can sort it out it will almost certainly be a contender in 2012.

Perhaps the first WCC since 1998?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:23 am 
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Think if they did that and if its a huge thanks to Button, does everyone think Lewis will be unhappy about it?

Lewis loves Mclaren but they have only had 1 title (2008 Drivers) for some time so the thought is, would Lewis have resentment towards Button for being the one that does it?

WCC is very important for Mclaren - for the money alone, Mclaren doesnt manufacture as many cars as the likes of Ferrari and one thing everyone knows - Italy loves Ferrari. There is no one country in love with Mclaren - bringing it all that fan worship money.

I hope Mclaren really do win the WCC, they have done well so many times and walked away with so little.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:33 am 
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Johnston wrote:
It will be interesting to see if they finally follow the trend of going with the high chassis.

If they do they will need to catchup to the rest with 2/3 years experience of that lay out.

But with the 2014 regs bringing the nose back down, would they really make that big of a change for just the one season?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:57 am 
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It's not the nose it's the chassis.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:44 pm 
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FFS they had the best car for most part of the year, and given the stability in rules for next year, i don't think it will change. As much as a step forward RBR and Ferrari will make, McLaren will atleast be able to keep things on an even footing with them.

By the year end operational inconsistencies had greatly reduced from what they were at the beginning. Team also scored the fastest pit-stop of the year, if i'm not mistaken. The team is coming good, and with new blood coming in the team and a very experience driver alongside, they should be good. If i were a rival, i'll be a fool to write off JB + Macca. Perez as good as he is, this will be his first year with a team at the front of the grid, and with which will come new learnings... given the lack of testing, i think he will be more competitive with JB in year 2.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Mclaren will always be a challenger, the problem is them selves. they are their own worst enemy sometimes. they dont need the likes of Grojean to ruin their races as they can do it to them selves perfectly fine. and I am a Mclaren fan.....


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Button Talking about the 2013 tyres said: "This tyre, I think, has got a much wider working range and that's going to make it much easier to get the tyre working from the start of the season. We've had to change our car a lot to get it working on the 2012 tyres when normally you'd be working on development"

Kind of makes you think Mclaren spent to much time sorting the car out to help Jenson sort his tyre issues out rather than develop the car which is disappointing


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:09 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
Button Talking about the 2013 tyres said: "This tyre, I think, has got a much wider working range and that's going to make it much easier to get the tyre working from the start of the season. We've had to change our car a lot to get it working on the 2012 tyres when normally you'd be working on development"

Kind of makes you think Mclaren spent to much time sorting the car out to help Jenson sort his tyre issues out rather than develop the car which is disappointing

More dissappointing, when you tink about the other driver had no such problems at this time & was winning (Canada). IMo this was the time whenn McLaren lost the developmentrace against RedBull, and failed to back LH for the WDC

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Lewis (but for reliability and pit-stop episodes) should have been a title challenger this year and Jenson (but for those six races from Bahrain to Silverstone where he was unable to relate to the car) could have been. Assuming the changes in regulations for 2013 are minimal and the Pirellis are easier to understand that McLaren should be right up there. I'd expect Sergio to get to grips with it fairly quickly as well.

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