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Some people are saying that alonso is doing a better job than Kimi because of their comparative performances against Massa. This may be partly true, but I think it paints a bit of a false picture. We've seen in the last few races this season that Massa can actually have the pace to be faster than Alonso all weekend, and it seems like once he managed it once, it got his confidence up and he was able to do it again.

I think if Massa had beaten Alonso early in the season, Alonso would have had as much of a fight on his hands as kimi did against Massa.

Massa's problem has never been his pace. It's his massive inconsistency, dips in form, and lack of confidence. Although, it's probably also a fair bit to do with the tyres, which don't/didn't suit his style either.

I actually think kimi and alonso are extremely similar drivers - both top tier in terms of speed (but maybe not quite the fastest), but also drive intelligently and consistently, and almost always make the right judgement calls (not just about when to change to inters, but in terms of all aspects of race-craft).

Kimi is not interested in beating the teammate for the sake of it. Thats what makes him so unpolitical

That's utter bollox. Every driver first and foremost wants to (dare I say NEEDS to these days) beat the guy in the other car. Kimi is no different.

That's utter bollox. Every driver first and foremost wants to (dare I say NEEDS to these days) beat the guy in the other car. Kimi is no different.

Yes, worth it. Alonso in other teams would have done more damage to Ferrari than Kimi to be honest.
I like kimi, but teams like Ferrari and McLaren these days have different expectations from their drivers than what Kimi has to offer.
Modern McLaren is not the McLaren of early 2000s. And same with Ferrari.
Kimi would not fit in there. He is where he can be right now and seems to work for both parties. This is how it was meant to be.
All Ferrari fans will forever be happy with the WDC which Kimi got for the team, but Alonso and Ferrari are the pair they both want to be.

In the end, what would any other driver have done in last 3 years at Ferrari? Even top drivers like Kimi cant do shit if car is not good or good enough. We saw that in 2009.

It appeared to me that Kimi was only happy to take the money. He didn't have to you know, he could have sorted out a top drive elsewhere on the grid.

However with Alonso he demands a number one driver policy. Even if Massa could challenge Alonso earlier in season he would not be allowed. Ferrari insure Massa cannot challenge Alonso at the start of a given season, if he did consistently all hell would break lose again, Ferrari won't allow that to happen and only let Massa go for it later in the season.

Both are typing utter bollocks.

Kimi don't care about his team mate. He have said it in numerous interviews.

That makes him so good.

why should he let another team pick up the tab for Ferrari wanting to get out of a contract? He could take it and go elsewhere to enjoy the millions until his "contractually imposed sabbatical" lapsed and which is what he has done. I'd say this is the best thing he has done for himself. His name was already dragged through the mud, so why not take a breather since he was offered a severance package that was very very sweet.

I think you better take a look back at 2010.

First 7 races:

so, first seven races and Massa was beating Alonso (4 out of 7). and then (on 11th race) we all know what happened. ...faster.... than.... you......

Of course he does, don't be so naive. If Romain consistently beat him out on track it would eat him up inside (and he would probably lose his seat also, seems to be the nature of modern F1).
When Massa got the upper hand in 2008 Kimi started overdriving. Started to get intimate with a few walls. In F1 you have to beat your teammate before you can think about beating anyone else.

And if he says he doesn't care about beating his teammate in an interview, does it not make you wonder why people call his dedication into question?

so, first seven races and Massa was beating Alonso (4 out of 7). and then (on 11th race) we all know what happened. ...faster.... than.... you......

Exactly, the only time he managed it, he got told to let Alonso past and then since then Massa has not been allowed to challenge Alonso, even this season when he could he had to yield (Albiet because of Alonso's title challenge) But if he challenges him again at start of season Ferrari won't let it happen because it's not the way Alonso has the team operating for him. The only time Massa did it was 2010 and then he got destroyed after the Alonso is faster then you etc.

I think you guys read way too much into random statements, specially Kimi's dismissive statements, all of which end with the subtext "I wish this interview were over, leave me alone".

I'm of the opinion that Kimi doesn't care as much about beating his teammate as some others do. It's even possible (gasp!) that he has a life he cares about outside of F1.

None of this means he is not focused when he is in the car. All this is speculation of course.

In the 3 races in between Alonso extended his points gap over Massa to the point where he was their only realistic hope at the WDC (as proven by the end of season results).

I don't think mcdo is saying Kimi isn't focused/dedicated... but comments such as "I don't care about beating my teammate" etc could very easily be misinterpreted as a lack of dedication/commitment/focus, as they always say the first person you need to beat is your team mate. I think Kimi's very dedicated after this year, but mcdo's right in saying is it any wonder why people question his dedication if he comes up with statements like that?

Do you give Alonso the same benefit of the doubt for the questionable things that he says? Saying they aren't worth the paper they are printed on? It seems like it might be a bit selective.

Alonso could have caused a double DNF with the pit lane overtake.

In the 3 races in between Alonso extended his points gap over Massa to the point where he was their only realistic hope at the WDC (as proven by the end of season results).

This shouldn't still be a difficult concept to grasp.

I don't think mcdo is saying Kimi isn't focused/dedicated... but comments such as "I don't care about beating my teammate" etc could very easily be misinterpreted as a lack of dedication/commitment/focus, as they always say the first person you need to beat is your team mate. I think Kimi's very dedicated after this year, but mcdo's right in saying is it any wonder why people question his dedication if he comes up with statements like that?

31 points in midseason equals 'only realistic hope'? I wouldn't put money on that.

31 points in midseason equals 'only realistic hope'? I wouldn't put money on that.

Precisely

I quite like Kimi. He was greatly missed in 2010/2011.
He's been guilty of a couple of things, but lack of dedication is not one of them.

However I do see where people get that idea from.

Going into the German GP Fernando was 29 behind the leader. Felipe was 60 behind.
Felipe was mathematically still in it. But not realistically.
For a team that exists to win titles (regardless of if they achieve titles or not), it would have been madness to allow Massa take the German GP win.

And the end of season results prove they made the right choice.
And the 2011 results prove they made the right choice.
And the 2012 results prove they made the right choice.
And I'll bet the 2013 results will continue to prove they backed the right driver in Germany 2010.

I may be mistaken, but I think ALonso was 48 points behind Hamilton and 23 behind 4th place Vettel, with Button and Webber slotted in between those two.

So far it's been far from worth it:

1 WDC
1 WCC
vs
0 WDC
0 WCC

Please don't bring up the excuses as the simple facts are Kimi was far more successful at Ferrari than Alonso has been (Alonso's time at Ferrari is seen as a failure until he's won a title with them, drivers or constructors)

The number one driver policy and making Massa not compete and yield any time he's ahead of Alosno certainly has not helped them either.

Sure, why not. Sports journalism is the worst kind nowadays, and not just in F1. Context is everything. That said, I have been guilty of once calling Fred "Samurai Jack" (a cartoon character, for those not fond of obscure references). And you must admit, he seems to take greater care in choosing his words and presenting himself to the press. What he says means something, though again context is sometimes lacking in press reports.

No, in my opinion, and I'll tell you why.

Since 2010, Ferrari have had all kinds of drama. First there was Germany 2010, and it caused an uproar. Is swapping cars around really that bad? Ultimately, probably not, and the fact they were fined a mere $100,000 possibly confirms that. But it ruins the show. Yes, maybe it is better for Alonso's championship challenge, but I think many feel it was still a little too early. Like Austria 2002. What would have been much better for Alonso's championship challenge is not jumping the start at China, or not crashing the car in FP3 at Monaco, or giving the position straight back to Kubica at Silverstone. But Ferrari and Alonso dragged it out to Abu Dhabi, only to catch themselves out.

Then Ferrari had a relatively subdued season in 2011. One win at Silverstone, thanks to a somewhat odd sets of rules that weekend, and more consistent driving from Alonso.

And of course, there was 2012. Ferrari, to their credit, brilliantly turning their season around from pre-season testing to lead the WDC. Of course, Alonso's part in this should also be noted, as he was the standout driver along with Vettel all year. Things were good when they were out in front. But then, when it started to slip away from Ferrari, partly due to a series of unfortunate events, and partly due to Red Bull and Vettel striking when it mattered most, things began to get uglier. Some would call it petty remarks, discrediting his rival, others would call it gamesmanship. All through the summer, Alonso had been hailed, and Ferrari praised for their strategies, and execution and maximisation of races. But then, it was no longer just the driver catching Alonso, it was their brilliant technical director too. There was Austin, with what some would call brilliant, and with what others would call underhand. And finally, there was Brazil. Some would give Ferrari the benefit of the doubt, and others still would say it was a ploy, driven by Alonso, to try and smear and discredit the job done by Red Bull and Vettel.

That was Ferrari with Alonso. Two very near misses in 3 years, with the driver many regard as the most complete for several years now. Although it is impossible to know what Räikkönen could have achieved in the same three years, of Räikkönen we do know this. He is quiet, he gets his head down, and he does what he does best. For all the talk and rumours in 2009 about being unmotivated, being matched by Massa, and not delivering his on his enormous potential, he has returned in 2012, after two years away, and instantly reaffirmed himself as one of the very best. Many people at Lotus say he is highly motivated, we know Massa can match Alonso, from 2010 and the latter races of 2012, and to finish 3rd in the WDC on your return displays the potential Räikkönen has in abundance. Whilst much can change in three years, and in particular in Formula One, 2009 Räikkönen does seem to add up.

And so with Räikkönen, Ferrari could have got on with the job in hand. Winning titles. Except the one thing all the dramas since 2010 have obscured. The one thing that would have been highlighted quickly with Räikkönen's no nonsense attitude. The one thing that has truly stopped Ferrari from winning.

The car.