planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:25 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 1135
Greg92 wrote:
I'd like to see race fuel qualifying.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 3696
JohnnyGuitar wrote:
Greg92 wrote:
I'd like to see race fuel qualifying.


Image



Difficult with refueling no longer allowed. This would especially cripple the lower ranking cars as they would not burn off the extra fuel curing Q3, so have to take a gamble to make it or not, then be left with either extra fuel or not enough fuel

_________________
I have nothing to offer but blood, oil, gears, and sweat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 32
bring back refueling and so start on qualifying fuel load
and

have the drivers sprint 100m on foot, there is your starting grid :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 1219
The rules were written to accomadate less or more teams.
26 cars. 9.9.10
24 cars. 8.8.10
22 cars. 7.7.10
20 cars. 6 6.10

And so on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:32 pm
Posts: 365
I would like to get back to old one flying lap style quali. The problem with the current quali is that we don't get to see laps of all the drivers. The race director tends to focus on a few drivers and everyone else gets ignored. I wanna see every single driver's flying lap and see what mistakes they made rather then just hearing about them in the post quali interviews. I would do it the following way.

The quali session is split into two parts:
Part 1: Similar to the old quali format, we start off with the driver who finished 20th in the last race and go back one by one to the winner of the previous race

Part 2: Start off with the race winner and go forward till the 20th place guy.
Average time of the two laps is the driver's quali time

This makes things fair and makes sure that the cars that finished towards the end in the previous race aren't automatically doomed and we get to see each driver do their flying lap.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 1135
F1_Mac wrote:
bring back refueling and so start on qualifying fuel load
and

have the drivers sprint 100m on foot, there is your starting grid :lol:



Your second idea is infinitely more preferable to your first.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 4107
Location: Belgium
An hour of qualifying on both Friday and Saturday. Get rid of the silly spicing up, just show us all of the advertising on all of the cars.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 3696
F1_Mac wrote:
bring back refueling and so start on qualifying fuel load
and

have the drivers sprint 100m on foot, there is your starting grid :lol:


Like this? (from 1:40 on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFIfHI6OUPw

_________________
I have nothing to offer but blood, oil, gears, and sweat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 1:50 am
Posts: 1042
JohnnyGuitar wrote:
Greg92 wrote:
I'd like to see race fuel qualifying.


Image


That pic is overdone and unwarranted here. I can easily reply "Not sure if I should waste my time with a buffoon".

The idea is very simple and generated mostly by the talks of Red Bull's qualy pace v. race pace and Vettel's "controversy" at the 2012 Abu Dhabi GP.

The problem with low fuel qualifying is that cars that have better race pace under heavy fuel but worse qualy pace on low fuel like arguably Ferrari are disadvantaged as they'll end up behind the cars with better qualy pace but worse heavy fuel pace such as Red Bull or Mercedes before they took a wrong development turn. This means that in the first half of the race and maybe more, Ferrari cars (following the example above) will spend their most advantaged period of the race trying to overtake the other cars which is not always easy due to tires and so on, but even when they do, by the time they make it the advantage has most likely shifted back to the other cars because they're running on low fuel levels now. I find this unfair.

My proposal is very simple for those unsure if I'm serious or not. Keep the qualy format as is with three separate elimination sessions. All cars run in Q1 with race fuel levels + enough fuel for the qualy laps in that session. The bottom 6, or whatever number they decide upon with the new grid, start the race with whatever fuel they have left. Before the start of the Q2 session, the remaining cars refuel with enough fuel for the planned qualy laps for the Q2 session. The next bottom 6 that are eliminated start again with whatever fuel they have left. Before the start of the Q3 session, the top 10 guys can add enough fuel for the planned Q3 qualy laps and at the end of the session they're not allowed to refuel anymore. You get it wrong at any time, or you try to cheat the system and the penalty is too harsh because you won't be able to finish the race. No more grid penalties or relegation for getting it wrong and no more setup changes.

This way at least you know that the fastest guys for the first laps will start on the first rows. If a car has an advantage on low fuel levels, they'll get a chance at the end but only after the cars that are faster on high fuel levels have used their own advantage. And maybe, just maybe, teams will focus on setting up their cars for optimal pace under heavy fuel instead of trying to do what Red Bull does: grab pole and maintain position until the fuel levels drop. Let's not forget, most of the race is run under heavy fuel.

For those that have been patient enough to read this or consider it a serious post, if you happen to get the fuel levels wrong, IMO it serves you right to DNF. This is a professional sport and you get paid enough money for your expertise. A DNF is even more appropriate if you try to cheat like for example underfueling in Q1 or Q2 so you can get to the next session where you can refuel again and add the difference. In this case FIA can easily monitor and even regulate the fuel levels added before Q2 and Q3 but more importantly, if you plan on doing this, you run the risk of others doing it as well which means you can still end up eliminated after the session and therefore unable to refuel anymore. Was that serious enough?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 2460
You should get the drivers to argue about whose car is fastest until they reach a consensus. When that consensus is reached, the team it says is quickest is eliminated, and will start from the back row of the grid. The process is then repeated using the remaining teams.

Rinse and repeat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 5102
Greg92 wrote:
The problem with low fuel qualifying is that cars that have better race pace under heavy fuel but worse qualy pace on low fuel like arguably Ferrari are disadvantaged as they'll end up behind the cars with better qualy pace but worse heavy fuel pace such as Red Bull or Mercedes before they took a wrong development turn.


In my view, Ferrari's difficulties in qualifying were not due to high fuel loads but due to their airflow reattachment problems after closing DRS on corner entry (or so that's what's presumed).

But I would have no problem letting the cars run low-fuel qualifs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:29 am
Posts: 972
I used to love refuelling. I can see why it was banned though.

I'm still sticking with my idea further above ;)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 1135
Greg92 wrote:
JohnnyGuitar wrote:
Greg92 wrote:
I'd like to see race fuel qualifying.


Image


That pic is overdone and unwarranted here. I can easily reply "Not sure if I should waste my time with a buffoon".

The idea is very simple and generated mostly by the talks of Red Bull's qualy pace v. race pace and Vettel's "controversy" at the 2012 Abu Dhabi GP.

The problem with low fuel qualifying is that cars that have better race pace under heavy fuel but worse qualy pace on low fuel like arguably Ferrari are disadvantaged as they'll end up behind the cars with better qualy pace but worse heavy fuel pace such as Red Bull or Mercedes before they took a wrong development turn. This means that in the first half of the race and maybe more, Ferrari cars (following the example above) will spend their most advantaged period of the race trying to overtake the other cars which is not always easy due to tires and so on, but even when they do, by the time they make it the advantage has most likely shifted back to the other cars because they're running on low fuel levels now. I find this unfair.

My proposal is very simple for those unsure if I'm serious or not. Keep the qualy format as is with three separate elimination sessions. All cars run in Q1 with race fuel levels + enough fuel for the qualy laps in that session. The bottom 6, or whatever number they decide upon with the new grid, start the race with whatever fuel they have left. Before the start of the Q2 session, the remaining cars refuel with enough fuel for the planned qualy laps for the Q2 session. The next bottom 6 that are eliminated start again with whatever fuel they have left. Before the start of the Q3 session, the top 10 guys can add enough fuel for the planned Q3 qualy laps and at the end of the session they're not allowed to refuel anymore. You get it wrong at any time, or you try to cheat the system and the penalty is too harsh because you won't be able to finish the race. No more grid penalties or relegation for getting it wrong and no more setup changes.

This way at least you know that the fastest guys for the first laps will start on the first rows. If a car has an advantage on low fuel levels, they'll get a chance at the end but only after the cars that are faster on high fuel levels have used their own advantage. And maybe, just maybe, teams will focus on setting up their cars for optimal pace under heavy fuel instead of trying to do what Red Bull does: grab pole and maintain position until the fuel levels drop. Let's not forget, most of the race is run under heavy fuel.

For those that have been patient enough to read this or consider it a serious post, if you happen to get the fuel levels wrong, IMO it serves you right to DNF. This is a professional sport and you get paid enough money for your expertise. A DNF is even more appropriate if you try to cheat like for example underfueling in Q1 or Q2 so you can get to the next session where you can refuel again and add the difference. In this case FIA can easily monitor and even regulate the fuel levels added before Q2 and Q3 but more importantly, if you plan on doing this, you run the risk of others doing it as well which means you can still end up eliminated after the session and therefore unable to refuel anymore. Was that serious enough?



Well when you make zero effort to explain what you meant by 'race fuel qualifying' how can you be surprised when someone gets the wrong end of the stick? I made the obvious assumption that you wanted a return to the dullest period in F1 history - the refuelling years. I'll say one thing positive about qualifying during that period; it was more entertaining than the racing - not the intended outcome.

The racing was abject then, because it was mainly about who can run longer on the first stint of fuel rather than who was quickest. And EVERY single pole position during the race fuel qualifying era is devalued in my opinion, because pole position should all be about who is fastest, not who is lightest.

I now realise you weren't calling for a return to that now thankfully jettisoned formula, but I'm sorry I still don't like your proposal. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:15 pm
Posts: 38
How about a 2 stage qualifying system.
For starters, the top 8 from the previous race get a bye into the 2nd stage of qualy.
In the 1st stage, drivers finishing 9th to 22nd fight for 4 space to gain access to Q2.
Give them 30 mins/stage, and stick with the current tyre rules.

This would give TV time to the smaller teams.
It would also, hopefully, mean that all 12 drivers would go out in Q2, as there would be more tyres, and if they didn't run, they would be down in 12th.
At the start of the season, you would select the drivers from the car numbers, or standings from last years world championship.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:10 pm
Posts: 17
i think the session should be more like it was in 2002. a free for all. except your limited to 1 flying lap every 15 minutes. this would make the cars go out once every 15 minutes and not leave it till the last moments as was the problem in 2002.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:26 pm
Posts: 132
For the most part I like the format, but it has become a bit processionary and isn't often difficult to know who or which team will score pole position by the end of Free Practice 3 (if you're paying close attention).

So, for that reason, I'd like to see the top-four to top-six do a single flying lap after the current two or three sessions they plan on running this year to decide their positions. That would make for an intense finale to qualifying, and could result in damn near any of those top four or six scoring pole, while making it essential to make that entire Q2 or Q3 session count.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:15 am
Posts: 110
I had a great system a while back. It’s a bit convoluted, but once people get it, its going to be awesome.




Q1 - 30 minutes to decide the top ten

Q2 - Top ten drivers do single lap quali

Q3 - Top five given the option to rescind their lap time to better it. If the new lap goes pearshaped, then the lowest they can drop is 5th.



To make this system work there needs to be tyre incentives.

- Drivers outside of the top ten start GP on whatever they like

- Drivers from 5-10 get to start on a new set of the compound they qualified on.

- Drivers 5-1 who don’t do a Q3 lap have to start on the tyres they did Q2 on.

- Driver 5-1 who rescind their lap get a fresh set of tyres their choosing to do Q3, then they start the race on them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 pm
Posts: 184
I would keep it the way it is.

If you wanna stop teams/drivers sitting in the pits, award points for pole position, say 2 points.

Or maybe even a 3-2-1 points system, something to that effect to stop the teams sitting their cars in the pits.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Azi, Bing [Bot], mikeyg123 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group