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Should Ferrari retain Massa for 2014?
Yes 29%  29%  [ 22 ]
No 71%  71%  [ 53 ]
Total votes : 75
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Massa says although he is safe for a drive with Ferrari for 2013, he fears he may not be able to retain it for 2014. Rumour did make waves mid season that he may be replaced at the end of the year, but his surge in performance towards the end meant that Ferrari retained his services for 2013 Season. It would be really Disappointing if he looses his seat for 2014.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Wait and see what 2013 yields for him. I would prefer to see Hulkenberg take the step up into the Scud, but if Massa's on top form, I wouldn't begrudge him the seat.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Let us see what form Massa shows in 2013 first! Why in the world are we worried about 2014 already.

Massa had a nice finish to 2012, and if he shows that form through 2013, then there is no question he merits a top seat in 2014... be it at Ferrari or elsewhere (that kind of depends on other factors, such as the Vettel rumors).

Ferrari was smart to sign him to a one year deal... considering the troubles he had to start the season. This way they have not put themselves in a tough situation if he falters in 2013, but would still have the "inside track" for 2014 if he does well.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Really depends which Felipe turns up in 2013, particularly for the first half of the season. If it's the Felipe who was utterly woeful for the first half of the 2012 season, I would fully expect Ferrari to have somebody else all but signed by the time the mid-season break is over. If it's the Massa we saw from Belgium onwards (and at Monaco/Silverstone, too) then I couldn't see any reason why they wouldn't give him another year. Not unless there was a legitimate shot at replacing him with somebody like Vettel... and I suppose if that's somehow an option, it might give Felipe a little more time to repeat what he did this year, and improve drastically in the second half of the season.

Then again, for all we know, one of the midfield teams makes a big step forwards and somebody like Nico Hulkenberg is actually delivering really, really strong race results, to the point where, short of outpacing Alonso himself, no matter what Felipe does, it's impossible for Ferrari to ignore.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:55 pm 
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I replied NO for Massa's own sake and not for Monty's Mafia. He has been a footstool for alonso for the last 3 years and 2013 is sadly going to be no different.

I hope that Webber finally retires at the end of 2013 and RBR then give Massa a 3-year contact.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
I replied NO for Massa's own sake and not for Monty's Mafia. He has been a footstool for alonso for the last 3 years and 2013 is sadly going to be no different.

I hope that Webber finally retires at the end of 2013 and RBR then give Massa a 3-year contact.

where he would be in the same position he is now :o


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:01 pm 
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A2jdl wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
I replied NO for Massa's own sake and not for Monty's Mafia. He has been a footstool for alonso for the last 3 years and 2013 is sadly going to be no different.

I hope that Webber finally retires at the end of 2013 and RBR then give Massa a 3-year contact.

where he would be in the same position he is now :o


No. Webber is not a lapdog to Vettel in any sense and has won his own races and even had a shot at the title in 2010. Between them Vettel is just a better driver overall.

Massa's results would have been more impressive had he been given the same help and freedom as Alonso rather than being used as the latter's sounding rod. Massa has now completely lost any motivation of winning anything and is just content with doing as he is told and collecting the cheques.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:03 pm 
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He was lucky to get seats for 2010, '11 and '12. That he's got a seat for 2013 is nothing short of a miracle. With the new regulations coming in for 2014, I'd have thought Ferrari would like to start the new era off with some fresh blood. In two years time Felipe and Fernando will be 34. It'll be time for Ferrari to do with Massa what they did to Barrichello - bring in the young guy expected to take over from their #1 when he departs.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:09 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
A2jdl wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
I replied NO for Massa's own sake and not for Monty's Mafia. He has been a footstool for alonso for the last 3 years and 2013 is sadly going to be no different.

I hope that Webber finally retires at the end of 2013 and RBR then give Massa a 3-year contact.

where he would be in the same position he is now :o


No. Webber is not a lapdog to Vettel in any sense and has won his own races and even had a shot at the title in 2010. Between them Vettel is just a better driver overall.

Massa's results would have been more impressive had he been given the same help and freedom as Alonso rather than being used as the latter's sounding rod. Massa has now completely lost any motivation of winning anything and is just content with doing as he is told and collecting the cheques.

nope its the same at red bull, ... Mark, maintain the gap, don't race with him if he tries to overtake, can he have your front wing pls... not bad for a number 2 !
Massa should do better at the beginning of the yr, if he wants to have a shot at WDC


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
It'll be time for Ferrari to do with Massa what they did to Barrichello - bring in the young guy expected to take over from their #1 when he departs.

It might help if that "young guy" is 27 years old by then and a multiple Driver's Champion to boot. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:35 pm 
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The fact he has a seat for 2013 is a minor miracle but if he keeps up his form from the end of this season he guy should have no problem taking it to Alonso. Just as he did early 2010.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:39 pm 
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A2jdl wrote:
nope its the same at red bull, ... Mark, maintain the gap, don't race with him if he tries to overtake, can he have your front wing pls... not bad for a number 2 !
Massa should do better at the beginning of the yr, if he wants to have a shot at WDC

I'd have to say Red Bull allow Mark to race Seb in a way that Ferrari don't allow Massa to race Alonso. There's a clear difference between the two


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:07 am 
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Massa will stay as a supporting act till Alonso leaves or till Ferrari finds their next Alonso.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:59 am 
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Yes, the window of operation is rather narrow, but when he's in the sweet-spot, he even kept up with Schumacher, and even beat Kimi... and Muzza thinks Schu's the best he's ever seen, and he's seen a lot.

Plus, why rock the boat?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Massa of 1st half 2012 - No
Massa of 2nd half 2012 - Yes


but reckon for his own sake, no matter what he should move on.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Didn't vote as there isn't a "don't know yet" or a "let's wait & see what he does in 2013" button.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:57 pm 
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DrG wrote:
Didn't vote as there isn't a "don't know yet" or a "let's wait & see what he does in 2013" button.

Same... need more options.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:10 pm 
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I hope that the end of this season has restored Massa's confidence and he can continue in the same vein in 2013.

If so (and Perez doesn't meet expectations), perhaps he could look to a seat at McLaren?

But I doubt it as his confidence is too easily dented, and Ferrari are going to make him give way to Alonso even from the beginning of next season as long as Luca is there.

But he has always been inconsistent, which is extremely unfortunate when it comes to looking for another drive. He needs to prove that he can be a good, consistent driver in 2013.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Well he's not the best number two as either he's slow as molasses or he challenges Alonso for pace.
It would be better - from ferrari's perspective - to have a driver who is consistently slightly slower than Alonso.
He did a great job reargunning in Brazil, but i think motivation wise it's not the job for him. He can swallow it at the end of the season, but if it happens sooner his performance will go down again.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:28 pm 
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rain wrote:
Well he's not the best number two as either he's slow as molasses or he challenges Alonso for pace.
It would be better - from ferrari's perspective - to have a driver who is consistently slightly slower than Alonso.
He did a great job reargunning in Brazil, but i think motivation wise it's not the job for him. He can swallow it at the end of the season, but if it happens sooner his performance will go down again.


It's better than being in the midfield at the moment, where you have to beat your teammate constantly or you are out for the next pay driver. If you step down into the midfield you are halfway to retirement already.

I think apart from Ferrari McLaren Red Bull Merc, since 2009 there has been only one driver lineup unchanged, that was Sauber from 2011 to 2012, and they have changed both drivers for this year. Or Something like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:03 pm 
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If he drives like early 2012 - no.

If he drives like late 2012 - yes.


But it's way to early to tell really. He has admitted the worry got to him and made him drive poorly, I hope we don't see a repeat in 2013.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:48 am 
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already started?? kind of early to bring up Massa in 14.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:57 am 
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If he keeps driving like he did at the end of this year I think Alonso might be worried! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:27 am 
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ManojHS wrote:
Massa will stay as a supporting act till Alonso leaves or till Ferrari finds their next Alonso.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:59 am 
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I remember reading an article about Massa's bad form being due that he was worried about his future with Ferrari, and that his worries made him slow. Very slow, if you ask me. However, the article said that Massa taught himself to enjoy himself, and had a revolution of sorts and came back to form. (Well, sort of.) If he doesn't start to worry again, he should be fine for 2014. However, the voices inside my head say to get someone else to drive for the team, maybe Hulkenburg or Rosberg. Or maybe use some of that money and hire a decent designer.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:04 am 
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Alonso will be sacked if he can't win the title and only if Ferrari can bring Vettel over. Massa is likely to retain his usual supporting role.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:08 am 
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trento wrote:
Alonso will be sacked if he can't win the title and only if Ferrari can bring Vettel over. Massa is likely to retain his usual supporting role.


Driving as he has the past few seasons, I think he would only be pushed out if they could sign Vettel on a very long deal, longer than 2 years. The reason for pushing him out would be concern of a conflict of personalities...but quite why they would do that without at least trying to reconcile them, which would give them the strongest pairing on the grid, is beyond me.

Schumacher drove 4 seasons for Ferrari before bringing them a championship (OK, 1999 probably would have been his if not for the broken leg), so I think Alonso would not be sacked if they did not have Vettel or Hamilton to replace him.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:32 am 
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I feel for Massa. I really like the guy. I just don't know if Ferrari and Alonso will allow for Massa to be the quicker guy in Ferrari. I wish for Massa to do well next season and have Alonso playing back up for a change, but I can dream how much I want, it ain't happening.

I don't see Alonso and Vettel being in the Ferrari team at the same time. It will be like Alonso and Hamilton all over again.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:08 pm 
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It is really quite simple... Massa simply has to show himself superior to Alonso through the first part of the season, and you will get to see Alonso playing "backup" for a change. Ferrari is not composed of idiots, they are not going to sabotage Massa to make Alonso look good if Massa is in the thick of things.

I know that goes in direct opposition to those who have decided that dastardly Ferrari has deliberately undermined Massa's confidence and eliminated any chance he has had to succeed, and of course they have been ably abedded by that evil Alonso in that task. Yes, Massa has been told to play the subservient teammate a few times... when it was obvious that Alonso was the best chance for Ferrari to capture a WDC.

Ideally, Ferrari would like for Massa AND Alonso to be strong, in the thick of things (alla Kimi/Massa in 2008), and when one establishes themselves as the most likely, then play the team cards. It serves no worthwhile purpose whatsoever to have Massa undermined and sabotaged (yes, knuckleheads in here have said as much.. frequently)... there is too much WCC money at risk to put one driver out of the big points, or out of the points all-together.

SO, please... let's get real.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:11 pm 
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@Blake,

I might have agreed with you when Alonso joined, but I think he's too entrenched in the team now. Even if Massa gets the upper hand at the beginning of 2013, I feel that any gap won't be large (unless due to accidents /reliabilty) and Ferrari would rather hold off and wait for Alonso to re-assert himself than risk upsetting their star player by attempting to force him into a support role. The last three years Alonso has been stronger at the end, so no doubt they would rather hedge their bets on him than the other way around.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
@Blake,

I might have agreed with you when Alonso joined, but I think he's too entrenched in the team now. Even if Massa gets the upper hand at the beginning of 2013, I feel that any gap won't be large (unless due to accidents /reliabilty) and Ferrari would rather hold off and wait for Alonso to re-assert himself than risk upsetting their star player by attempting to force him into a support role. The last three years Alonso has been stronger at the end, so no doubt they would rather hedge their bets on him than the other way around.


I have to agree with most of this. But for Massa's own sake, he has to try to as well as possible at the start of the season. If he does get ahead of Alonso - which he is not incapable of doing - then Ferrari might - just might - hesitate to actually hold him back. One reason would be that having come a good second in the WCC this season, they might be hoping to go one better in 2013 even if WDC might be tougher.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
Zoue wrote:
@Blake,

I might have agreed with you when Alonso joined, but I think he's too entrenched in the team now. Even if Massa gets the upper hand at the beginning of 2013, I feel that any gap won't be large (unless due to accidents /reliabilty) and Ferrari would rather hold off and wait for Alonso to re-assert himself than risk upsetting their star player by attempting to force him into a support role. The last three years Alonso has been stronger at the end, so no doubt they would rather hedge their bets on him than the other way around.


I have to agree with most of this. But for Massa's own sake, he has to try to as well as possible at the start of the season. If he does get ahead of Alonso - which he is not incapable of doing - then Ferrari might - just might - hesitate to actually hold him back. One reason would be that having come a good second in the WCC this season, they might be hoping to go one better in 2013 even if WDC might be tougher.

Agreed. That's the best he could hope for, really.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:49 am 
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A2jdl wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
A2jdl wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
I replied NO for Massa's own sake and not for Monty's Mafia. He has been a footstool for alonso for the last 3 years and 2013 is sadly going to be no different.

I hope that Webber finally retires at the end of 2013 and RBR then give Massa a 3-year contact.

where he would be in the same position he is now :o


No. Webber is not a lapdog to Vettel in any sense and has won his own races and even had a shot at the title in 2010. Between them Vettel is just a better driver overall.

Massa's results would have been more impressive had he been given the same help and freedom as Alonso rather than being used as the latter's sounding rod. Massa has now completely lost any motivation of winning anything and is just content with doing as he is told and collecting the cheques.

nope its the same at red bull, ... Mark, maintain the gap, don't race with him if he tries to overtake, can he have your front wing pls... not bad for a number 2 !
Massa should do better at the beginning of the yr, if he wants to have a shot at WDC

There's the difference. Mark needs to be persuaded into maintaining the gap. Felipe on the other hand knows what his position is and knows what to do even without the team telling him.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:05 am 
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If Ferrari build a good car for starters and he can maintain his late 2012 form than he shouldn't be too worried. If Ferari missing out the WCC although they have a car to win it than he should be replaced by Hulk or another young talent. If Ferrari build an average or bad car and Massa is nowhere near Alonso I think he is out too.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:10 am 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
Zoue wrote:
@Blake,

I might have agreed with you when Alonso joined, but I think he's too entrenched in the team now. Even if Massa gets the upper hand at the beginning of 2013, I feel that any gap won't be large (unless due to accidents /reliabilty) and Ferrari would rather hold off and wait for Alonso to re-assert himself than risk upsetting their star player by attempting to force him into a support role. The last three years Alonso has been stronger at the end, so no doubt they would rather hedge their bets on him than the other way around.


I have to agree with most of this. But for Massa's own sake, he has to try to as well as possible at the start of the season. If he does get ahead of Alonso - which he is not incapable of doing - then Ferrari might - just might - hesitate to actually hold him back. One reason would be that having come a good second in the WCC this season, they might be hoping to go one better in 2013 even if WDC might be tougher.


They didn't hold in him back when he started beating Raikkonen. There's no reason for them to do it now.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
Zoue wrote:
@Blake,

I might have agreed with you when Alonso joined, but I think he's too entrenched in the team now. Even if Massa gets the upper hand at the beginning of 2013, I feel that any gap won't be large (unless due to accidents /reliabilty) and Ferrari would rather hold off and wait for Alonso to re-assert himself than risk upsetting their star player by attempting to force him into a support role. The last three years Alonso has been stronger at the end, so no doubt they would rather hedge their bets on him than the other way around.


I have to agree with most of this. But for Massa's own sake, he has to try to as well as possible at the start of the season. If he does get ahead of Alonso - which he is not incapable of doing - then Ferrari might - just might - hesitate to actually hold him back. One reason would be that having come a good second in the WCC this season, they might be hoping to go one better in 2013 even if WDC might be tougher.


They didn't hold in him back when he started beating Raikkonen. There's no reason for them to do it now.

Well "they" certainly manipulated Massa to help Alonso in 2012. But if Massa manages a few good results at the start of the 2013 season, they might think twice about doing it again. IMO, Ferrari beating McLaren to the second Constructor's spot in 2012 was the best thing that could have happened to Massa. That might prompt the Dons to 'release' Massa to do his own thing next year.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Worried? He should be demanding the same salary as FA since it is as much his job to deliver FA a wdc as it FA's.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
@Blake,

I might have agreed with you when Alonso joined, but I think he's too entrenched in the team now. Even if Massa gets the upper hand at the beginning of 2013, I feel that any gap won't be large (unless due to accidents /reliabilty) and Ferrari would rather hold off and wait for Alonso to re-assert himself than risk upsetting their star player by attempting to force him into a support role. The last three years Alonso has been stronger at the end, so no doubt they would rather hedge their bets on him than the other way around.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11204224364 ... domenicali
Massa's career as a potential WDC ended in 2010 IMO. He needs a miracle to change his situation. Alonso is too good to give him that opportunity.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Someone should get him this for christmas.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:37 am 
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Blake wrote:
It is really quite simple... Massa simply has to show himself superior to Alonso through the first part of the season, and you will get to see Alonso playing "backup" for a change. Ferrari is not composed of idiots, they are not going to sabotage Massa to make Alonso look good if Massa is in the thick of things.

I know that goes in direct opposition to those who have decided that dastardly Ferrari has deliberately undermined Massa's confidence and eliminated any chance he has had to succeed, and of course they have been ably abedded by that evil Alonso in that task. Yes, Massa has been told to play the subservient teammate a few times... when it was obvious that Alonso was the best chance for Ferrari to capture a WDC.

Ideally, Ferrari would like for Massa AND Alonso to be strong, in the thick of things (alla Kimi/Massa in 2008), and when one establishes themselves as the most likely, then play the team cards. It serves no worthwhile purpose whatsoever to have Massa undermined and sabotaged (yes, knuckleheads in here have said as much.. frequently)... there is too much WCC money at risk to put one driver out of the big points, or out of the points all-together.

SO, please... let's get real.

Actually agree with this post old bean, but Alonso does have a lot of pull so let's not pretend it has no influence at all. Politics is rife within teams.

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