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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.

Never underestimate the power of the V10! I miss them :-|

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.


So what youre saying is the rules brought in to slow the cars down have slowed the cars down? Bugger me.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Never underestimate the power of unlimited testing and spending.

... and the larger engines.



Imagine if they'd had blown double diffusers back in those days.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Brazil
2008
Heikki Kovalainen 1:11.768 (Fastest lapin Quali. )

2004

Rubens Barrichello 1:10.646

2012

Lewis Hamilton 1:12.458

1993

Alain Prost 1:15.866

So even the raft of changes post '93 and '94 the cars got 5 secs quicker around a relatively short lap and the cars are less than a second off the 2008 pace before the changes to slow them in '09.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:24 pm 
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You're comparing Monza, a track where engine power is important. Obviously the change from V10's to V8's took off about 200 BHP and probably accounts for a large part of the lap time that was gained.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Not only they had bigger engines, they also could use as many engines as they wanted. I had the chance to hear the last of the V10s in a winter testing in Valencia and they roared tremendously. Too bad there are no V12 since '95.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Try taking the Red Bull X1 for a spin on GT5 to give you an idea of how much faster cars could be these days


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I think it was martin brundle who said one year at magny cours that from 93 where the lap times were in 1'12s. To 97. Excluding sennas death. So continuing the line if development that would of happened if senna hadn't of died. The lap times would below a minute.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:25 pm 
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V10 and Ferrari V12 were fast ones but also some tracks have been changed to slower to improve safety

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:25 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
I think it was martin brundle who said one year at magny cours that from 93 where the lap times were in 1'12s. To 97. Excluding sennas death. So continuing the line if development that would of happened if senna hadn't of died. The lap times would below a minute.
'93 was a determinant year, it was the last year to allow ABS, active suspension and several electronic assistances. But there were many features that were already banned, like turbo engines (1989) ground effect (1980?)...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/category/reg ... es/banned/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Why are we comparing 93' if I may ask? the Variente del Rettifilio was different back then no?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:44 pm 
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The fastest speed ever recorded in a race was by Montoya at Monza in 2005, 231.5mph.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:23 am 
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In the last decade, which rule slowed the cars the most drastically from the previous year?
2006 with arrival of V8
or
2009 arrival of new aero?


edit- looking at it Jenson looks about 0.5 seconds faster in Q2 than the cars did in 2008. 2009 cars were still quicker.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:40 am 
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I loved the old cars, just to see them sliding around for grip with a powerful beast of an engine.

EPIC


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:09 am 
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Volantary wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.


So what youre saying is the rules brought in to slow the cars down have slowed the cars down? Bugger me.


I think that is a bit unfair, previously F1 struggled to slow the cars down because of aerodynamic advances so I do find it interesting that the 2000 pole was faster. Changes to the circuit could be a factor as well though, such as the kerbs at the Roggia.

I wish some boffin could work out how fast a 2005 V10 engine would be in with the blown diffuser aerodynamic package.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:27 am 
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Don't forget that the maximum revs got limited too, not only the engines displacement and number of cylinders.
All of that contributed to the relative loss of power.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:43 am 
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I can't really remember the article that i read this but it said that F2004 was the fastest f1 car of all time (up to 2010) so i don't know if RB7 might be faster than F2004 but i don't think so...

Also the top 10 list included BAR Honda, Renault and Williams of 2004 plus Renault and McLaren of 2005. It comes to show you that the change from V10 to V8 really hampered their speed. Just imagine these cars with Double Blown Diffusers, DDRS, KERS, Turbo and most important Slick Tires... Small Rockets!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:10 am 
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Fountoukos13 wrote:
I can't really remember the article that i read this but it said that F2004 was the fastest f1 car of all time (up to 2010) so i don't know if RB7 might be faster than F2004 but i don't think so...

Also the top 10 list included BAR Honda, Renault and Williams of 2004 plus Renault and McLaren of 2005. It comes to show you that the change from V10 to V8 really hampered their speed. Just imagine these cars with Double Blown Diffusers, DDRS, KERS, Turbo and most important Slick Tires... Small Rockets!!!



Add in the active suspension, ABS, CVT etc etc.

What F1 could have been.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:34 pm 
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I hope there's a point in the future where things are considered safe enough (perhaps when the roll bar/canopy is introduced) that they allow some of the technology/power to return.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Volantary wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.


So what youre saying is the rules brought in to slow the cars down have slowed the cars down? Bugger me.


:lol: .....i think the off season is here


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:08 pm 
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slide wrote:
Volantary wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.


So what youre saying is the rules brought in to slow the cars down have slowed the cars down? Bugger me.


:lol: .....i think the off season is here


If it's so un-noteworthy you really don't have to reply you know.

The 2000 Monaco pole by Schumacher was over 5 seconds slower than his 2012 time (still pole), for example.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Qualifying was very different before the 2003 season. When qualifying cars had:
3 lap engines ( all they need was a flying lap)
3 lap gearboxes
can set up the car for one flying lap.

Also in 2000 was the start of the Bridgstone/Michelin tyre war.

If I could remember the qualifying lap times in 2000 were about 2-3 sec faster than the race fast lap times.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:12 am 
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Eva09 wrote:
slide wrote:
Volantary wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Schumacher's pole at Monza 2000 was faster than the pole at Monza 2012!

Also Schumacher's pole at Malaysia 2002 was a second faster than Hamilton's at Malaysia 2012!

Never underestimate the power of the old formula one cars.


So what youre saying is the rules brought in to slow the cars down have slowed the cars down? Bugger me.


:lol: .....i think the off season is here


If it's so un-noteworthy you really don't have to reply you know.

The 2000 Monaco pole by Schumacher was over 5 seconds slower than his 2012 time (still pole), for example.


Two words: track design! :idea: I'm not sure they add up to over 5 seconds, but think of how much they have moved barriers away from apexes at Monaco at Ste Devote, the Swimming Pool, and the right left that follows. Also, in 2012, there was less traffic on the circuit with only 10 cars, it was easier to set fastest lap times on such a congested circuit as Monaco without being held up, when the rest were relegated to the pits, compared to past seasons.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:15 pm 
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All i can say is I miss the good old days in F1 when the cars sounded amazing and the drivers drove the wheels off them and didn't have to worry about preserving their tyres.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:08 am 
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They also sounded like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg8w0J-heD0

I miss that sound :(


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:18 pm 
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motu_34 wrote:
They also sounded like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg8w0J-heD0

I miss that sound :(


Thats actually made my day :) :)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:33 pm 
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For what it's worth, grooved tyres lowered the cornering speed back in 2000. It makes sense that Monaco race back then - as mentioned somewhere in this thread - would be much slower than this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:51 pm 
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First of all the Monza track of 2000 is different to 2012 Monza. So it's not comparable. Also the cars are slower than figures suggets. The use of DRS in qualy blurs the picture.

Would love to see how a formula 1 car with 2004 tech regulations would perform now. With slicks of course.


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