planetf1.com

It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:28 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic

how would have vettel performed with ferrari's 2012 car?
better then alonso 29%  29%  [ 37 ]
similar to alonso 22%  22%  [ 28 ]
not good as alonso 50%  50%  [ 64 ]
Total votes : 129
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 2632
mcdo wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Going off-topic for a moment, I suspect Massa's confidence was destroyed when Alonso was allowed to overtake him when heading into the pit lane.

I don't really think there was an allowed/not allowed judgement made. Alonso basically just nailed him before they both had to stop.

To be fair Massa went through the puddle and lost grip. I wouldn't expect a driver like Alonso to hold station. I very much doubt a Hamilton or Vettel type driver would hold station either.
I guess that's why they're winners.

Anywho, I do agree with you. That also for me was the point at which Alonso said "This is my team now".

But IMO Ferrari should have supported Massa over this, in the same way that they should have supported Barri when Schumi overtook Barri after the final pit stop!

It just created bad feeling amongst the drivers - not good for the team. Similarly, Webber was not exactly happy when the team clearly favoured Seb - and made his feelings known! But Webber IS a tough cookie, and raced anyway. Massa just crumbled and Barri just moaned forever more that he had no chance. Again, not good for the team.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:20 am
Posts: 2706
Location: Herts, UK
mds wrote:
RickM wrote:
He'd have been crap as he relies heavily on downforce, without it he cant get going.


That's pretty much where Abu Dhabi comes in. Seems like he got going pretty well.

In his own car that's buil around him, sure. But in the 2012 Ferrari he'd have no chance.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 4898
RickM wrote:
mds wrote:
RickM wrote:
He'd have been crap as he relies heavily on downforce, without it he cant get going.


That's pretty much where Abu Dhabi comes in. Seems like he got going pretty well.

In his own car that's buil around him, sure. But in the 2012 Ferrari he'd have no chance.


So you're saying he would be crap because he relies on downforce, I answer this was proven wrong at Abu Dhabi, and you come back with your opinion of the question this whole thread is about as if it's a fact?

No, sorry, it doesn't work that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 4666
Location: Ireland
LKS1 wrote:
But IMO Ferrari should have supported Massa over this, in the same way that they should have supported Barri when Schumi overtook Barri after the final pit stop!

I'm not sure what they were supposed to do. Come out to the pitlane with Massa's tyres, wheel Alonso out of the way and carry on with Massa's stop? They only had a few seconds before the two cars arrived.

And when the stops were over Alonso was way too far ahead for the Ferrari guys to get on the radio and say "Come on mate you gotta drop back and give that place back to Felipe. It's only fair"

_________________
"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."


#14 for '14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:27 am
Posts: 410
Formula1Fan. wrote:
Megamoss wrote:
Given that early in the season, when RB were still trying to compensate for the loss of the blown diffuser, Mark was regularly outperforming Seb yet Fernando was trashing Massa in their difficult car, I'm inclined to believe that Seb would have initially struggled.

Indeed, on that basis he would have been nowhere.

Quote:
I have no doubt he would have got to grips with the car and performed to a similar level eventually though.

A Vettel in the middle of the pack would get involved in too many incidents. What stood out about Alonso this season was his consistency and maximum points return when all around him were going crazy. Vettel isn't cut from that cloth, he is impulsive and error-prone.

Looks like you keep picking a part of the season and drawing a conclusion from there, neglecting the majority of their times as partners for whatever reason. There are some parts in Alonso's seasons when he was beaten by his team mates: Trulli 2004, Massa 2012, and they're not as good as Webber IMO, especially Massa. Hamilton 2011 was beaten too, even almost all season long. But what does it make?

Nobody in this world has never been beaten by his team mate at any time in his career including the greats like Schumacher, Fangio, Senna, Clark, etc. You have to look at the whole time they were together as team mates, then draw a conclusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 2807
I think Vettel would have qualified better on average than Fernando.

Rcae pace is a really hard question to answer though. I really don't have a good idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:27 am
Posts: 410
Seriously, who'll possibly know?
His fans will say better, his haters will say worse.
This poll should include "I have no idea" like someone has posted above.


Last edited by ferdinand on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 2632
mcdo wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
But IMO Ferrari should have supported Massa over this, in the same way that they should have supported Barri when Schumi overtook Barri after the final pit stop!

I'm not sure what they were supposed to do. Come out to the pitlane with Massa's tyres, wheel Alonso out of the way and carry on with Massa's stop? They only had a few seconds before the two cars arrived.

And when the stops were over Alonso was way too far ahead for the Ferrari guys to get on the radio and say "Come on mate you gotta drop back and give that place back to Felipe. It's only fair"

Have to admit that I can't remember what happened after Alonso overtook Massa at the beginning of the pit lane.

Did they really have Alonso's tyres ready? Seems a bit odd?

But anyway - yes, they should have made Alonso slow down and wait for Massa to catch up after the unfair overtake IMO. Or (if Massa was that far behind after the pit stop), at least have shouted a lot at Alonso whilst soothing Massa that he would receive the best strategy at the next race!

If they had, perhaps Massa would have performed better consequently.

Admittedly, its not the sign of a truly great racing driver that they crumble so easily, but


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:26 am
Posts: 1768
Location: UK
Difficult to say as Vettels performance is at his best when he is confident of the car under him as can be demonstrated by his inconsistency at the start of the season when getting to grips with the RB8. Once he has established the limits of the car he is formidable thus I think it probably would have evened out after a few races with Vettel eventually performing better.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AdsBot [Google], Fiki, Google Adsense [Bot], Herb, motorfinger, RaggedMan, wolfticket and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group