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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:16 pm 
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So basically the 2013 aero will carry over to 2014.

So the chance to basically reset the field almost has gone and for the chance to take advantage of the new gearbox, engine and ers package.

Joke FIA once again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-2012


Last edited by MclarenBullet on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:19 pm 
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The new engines and energy recovery systems will be more than enough to shake things up.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:20 pm 
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A shame if that's the case.

Couldn't wait to be rid of those silly front wings which seem to get tangled up every other race.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:21 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
The new engines and energy recovery systems will be more than enough to shake things up.


There won't be a major difference in performance between the engines i don't think.

The changes to the bodywork was basically like a reset button, the current formula is rubbish.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:21 pm 
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its better this way, less costs for teams and rbr has the chance to keep dominating if kimi goes there :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Mercedes will be happy NOT!!!!!!!!!

Let us pray they make a good car in 2013.

Can see Mclaren and Redbull fighting it out for the next 2 or 3 years


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Any link Google throwing up nowt

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Any link Google throwing up nowt


http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/97027.html


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Does that mean those ugly noses will return next year? it's a shame what an eyesore F1 cars have become,especially with those massive front wings and small narrow rear wings


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:32 pm 
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johnp wrote:
Does that mean those ugly noses will return next year? it's a shame what an eyesore F1 cars have become,especially with those massive front wings and small narrow rear wings


No there is a solution for this for next season, won't see ugly noses again


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:33 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
Mercedes will be happy NOT!!!!!!!!!


I don't imagine Ferrari will be celebrating this news either, unless they manage to sort out a great car for next year.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Quote:
2014 F1 Technical Regulations

A new draft with numerous changes was discussed and agreed by the F1 Technical Working Group and Powertrain Working Group.

The requirement for cars to be driven exclusively under electric power in the pit lane has been postponed until 2017.

A number of changes have been made to the power unit regulations with the aim of limiting technology in some areas in order to reduce development costs.

Changes made to bodywork design, originally aimed at reducing downforce and drag for increased efficiency, have reverted to 2012 specification.

The minimum weight limit has been raised to compensate for additional power unit weight.


http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-2012

Baffling.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Bugger :(

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Lewis, Nooooooooooooooooooooooo


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:41 pm 
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What brought about the change of heart then?

PS - what was that about Lewis regretting his move to Mercedes? I think he may well now :P

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:42 pm 
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The FIA has no idea how much money/work teams have put in for the 2014 changes.

They are a complete and utter joke.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:43 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
What brought about the change of heart then?

PS - what was that about Lewis regretting his move to Mercedes? I think he may well now :P



No reason given for the change, guess they just tossed a coin after getting bored,

Regarding Lewis, ooooooops!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Fia. "I have an idea, lets cut costs of F1"

Teams "Why FIA that's a good Idea"

FIA "Okay teams here's a set of regs for 2014 to change things up a bit"

Teams "Okay boys get busy looking at these regs to get the jump on everyone else"

FIA "You didn't spend any money on the 2014 stuff yet have you"

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:44 pm 
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If you read the engine regs closely you will see that there is a LOT of room in them for advantages to be made in the recovery systems. Lots of teams will be doing their own with differing results.
jammin78 wrote:
What brought about the change of heart then?

PS - what was that about Lewis regretting his move to Mercedes? I think he may well now :P

$$$ and time. Lot of work involved in doing the new engines, both for manufacturers and customers.

I'm happy about this, I was envisioning some pretty crappy things coming out of everyone having to make so many changes happen at once, especially off the back of two seasons of fighting pirelli witchcraft.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Fia. "I have an idea, lets cut costs of F1"

Teams "Why FIA that's a good Idea"

FIA "Okay teams here's a set of regs for 2014 to change things up a bit"

Teams "Okay boys get busy looking at these regs to get the jump on everyone else"

FIA "You didn't spend any money on the 2014 stuff yet have you"

Image

:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:48 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
If you read the engine regs closely you will see that there is a LOT of room in them for advantages to be made in the recovery systems. Lots of teams will be doing their own with differing results.

$$$ and time. Lot of work involved in doing the new engines, both for manufacturers and customers.

I'm happy about this, I was envisioning some pretty crappy things coming out of everyone having to make so many changes happen at once, especially off the back of two seasons of fighting pirelli witchcraft.



That depends on what this bit means.

Quote:
A number of changes have been made to the power unit regulations with the aim of limiting technology in some areas in order to reduce development costs.


Limiting tech doesn't sound compatible with room for advantages made in energy recovery.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:49 pm 
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So Vettel 6 times world champion in 2015!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
If you read the engine regs closely you will see that there is a LOT of room in them for advantages to be made in the recovery systems. Lots of teams will be doing their own with differing results.

$$$ and time. Lot of work involved in doing the new engines, both for manufacturers and customers.

I'm happy about this, I was envisioning some pretty crappy things coming out of everyone having to make so many changes happen at once, especially off the back of two seasons of fighting pirelli witchcraft.



That depends on what this bit means.

Quote:
A number of changes have been made to the power unit regulations with the aim of limiting technology in some areas in order to reduce development costs.


Limiting tech doesn't sound compatible with room for advantages made in energy recovery.

Don't worry, it'll get there. Phasing in the changes over a couple of seasons instead of f*cking the teams with it all at once will change the outcome a bit, but the FIA will still get the end result they wanted.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Do you think they've looked at how generally "epic" this season has been perceived as, and decided there's no need to change it for now, especially with the new engine regs still coming in?

Even if that's the case though, it's all stabilised quite a bit up front, though the midfield is still exciting and the backmarkers have some good fights too.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:53 pm 
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I wonder if this is the first step to "Ah fuck it might as well drop the new engines Herr Bernie"

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:56 pm 
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FIA screwing with the teams and sport yet again.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Oh well, 2014 doesn't appear to be an exciting prospect anymore.
The aero shake-up was the main thing I was looking forward to.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:11 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Do you think they've looked at how generally "epic" this season has been perceived as, and decided there's no need to change it for now, especially with the new engine regs still coming in?

Even if that's the case though, it's all stabilised quite a bit up front, though the midfield is still exciting and the backmarkers have some good fights too.


2010 was epic but we still had changes


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:17 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Do you think they've looked at how generally "epic" this season has been perceived as, and decided there's no need to change it for now, especially with the new engine regs still coming in?

Even if that's the case though, it's all stabilised quite a bit up front, though the midfield is still exciting and the backmarkers have some good fights too.


2010 was epic but we still had changes


The racing was not even close to as exciting as this year in 2010. I don't understand how people can think this is a bad thing when we have just witnessed the season we have had. Also do you not think a sport that needs to be "reset" every few years is fundamentally flawed?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Let's just save ourselves some time and energy and hand the next few championshps to Red Bull now, then we can all go outside and take up Morris Dancing.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Redbull favouritism.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Red Bull and Newey must think Christmas has came 20 days early. Plays straight into their hands given the already have the best aero package. Mercedes and Hamilton must be weeping into their dinner. Ferrari will just threaten to quit. Again. McLaren won't be bothered.

As for the engines shaking things up, perhaps. If they actually go ahead now. The fact the FIA is scrapping the aero regs is an ominous sign. I wouldn't at all be shocked to read that the new engines have been delayed until 2017 as well.

I guess we'll have to rely on either Newey getting it badly wrong, him leaving F1 completely or Pirelli to make completely unpredictable tyres so we have a mixed up WDC race like this year again. Shame.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Red Bull didn't even have the fastest car this year, McLaren had them comprehensively beat with the exception of a run of 4 or 5 races. As of Brazil, the McLaren still looked the car to beat, with Red Bull not far behind, and Ferrari didn't look too bad in race trim, if not in qualifying. Lotus are there or there abouts too.

All the teams have the whole Winter to develop new cars, not to mention the whole of next year too, and any changes Pirelli make could upset the balance at the same time. Just because the regulations will be roughly the same, I don't see how exactly Red Bull have anything in the bag.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:00 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Do you think they've looked at how generally "epic" this season has been perceived as, and decided there's no need to change it for now, especially with the new engine regs still coming in?

Even if that's the case though, it's all stabilised quite a bit up front, though the midfield is still exciting and the backmarkers have some good fights too.


2010 was epic but we still had changes


The racing was not even close to as exciting as this year in 2010. I don't understand how people can think this is a bad thing when we have just witnessed the season we have had. Also do you not think a sport that needs to be "reset" every few years is fundamentally flawed?


2010 was the best season ever in the last 30 years maybe ever

Review here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 194910.stm


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:01 pm 
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I don't think this does play into Neweys hands.

After all the longer rules stay the same and with such tight restrictions the less chance of getting the jump with an EBD or better active suspension type advantages.

McLaren have already shown the car to the current rules is quick. Ferrari wasn't far off the pace and a new wind tunnel should see them back up aero wise. Lotus weren't too far off either and the mid fielders just need to copy the RB9 for their 2014 cars.

If anything, Aero wise this should let all the other teams close up to the Red Bulls. Making the engines be the defining part.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:12 pm 
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I find it odd no-one has thought of the possibility that the teams pushed for this. I highly suspected they would. Early estimations on lap-time from 2014 said up to 5 seconds decline in lap-time, because of the 2014 aerorules. It's also very likely that the teams have been informed on this a lot earlier than us.. otherwise they should all be bitching now. Not to mention the technical and economic challenge they would face with a new car AND a new engine. This will be much cheaper and a better Formula 1 IMO.

From what i could read from the proposed 2014 aero regs was essentially a spec-car, when you look solely on aero. I also remember Newey bringing this up, saying the 2014 regs allowed for very little innovation with aero.

5 seconds slower would mean around gp2 times... i'd rather not have that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:16 pm 
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I have NO doubt the teams pushed for it. The engine manufacturers have their hands (and resources) full in doing the new engines and recovery systems, the customer teams know they have to do a lot of work later than them as they won't have actual working engines to design around until after the manufacturer teams do, and they all have yet another new set of compounds to deal with in the mean time in 2013. They all hope they will be in a fight for a championship at the end of next year, which means fewer resources available to work on 2014 cars, and for less time.

*However, none of them will be happy about having already allocated resources to new aero packages.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:37 pm 
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There´s something I really still don´t understand quite well:

"The minimum weight limit has been raised to compensate for additional power unit weight"

So basically they are saying that the new 1.6L turbo V6 will be heavier than the current 2.4L V8 current engines? At the same time I don´t think the fuel economy can be THAT different, I don´t think it can be more than a 3% or so, so why botter in making a new, heavier, less powerful engine, I still don´t get it.
It could be different if there weren´t blow and RPM restrictions so tight and engines could put more Hp than current ones, but sadly it´s not the case


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:03 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
The FIA has no idea how much money/work teams have put in for the 2014 changes.

They are a complete and utter joke.

Do you have any idea? I think you have no clue at all. Are you aware that all teams are part F1 Technical Working Group? Are you aware that to make any change 70% of teams must agree?

Johnston wrote:
Fia. "I have an idea, lets cut costs of F1"

Teams "Why FIA that's a good Idea"

FIA "Okay teams here's a set of regs for 2014 to change things up a bit"

Teams "Okay boys get busy looking at these regs to get the jump on everyone else"

FIA "You didn't spend any money on the 2014 stuff yet have you"

Image

70% of votes are required to pass any change within any working group.

Strangely you post this:

Quote:
A new draft with numerous changes was discussed and agreed by the F1 Technical Working Group and Powertrain Working Group.



I wish some people didn't recklessly jump into conclusions.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Terrible news. The newer engines will have less power than the ones they replace, and downforce figures will increase every year, they always do.

So, the cars in 2014 will have more downforce than ever, with less power to work with.

The cars, with this information, will seem to be very, very easy to drive.

Chopping downforce aerodynamically would be the best way to return the sport into the drivers' hands more, thus making the racing more exciting. Instead, we get the opposite.

Bummed!


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