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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:10 pm 
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I am a Kimi fan, but there is no way anyone other than Schumacher deserved the title in 2003. The tragedy would have been Raikonnen winning the WDC with a single race win, and Schumi losing it with 6 races wins. The points system was pants, and good riddance.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Carlos Reutemann
Gilles Villeneuve
Nigel Mansell
Alain Prost

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:07 am 
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bbobeckyj wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
Tufty wrote:
Actually, I'll throw out there the legendary MP4-18 as another reason for Kimi Raikkonen to have taken the 2003 title - had the car not spent the year blowing up and trying to kill its test drivers it would have blown the competition away. As it was, it probably soured the McLaren-Newey relationship.

It also says a lot that a heavily modified '17D could take the fight the the F2003 when the '17 itself could never really match the F2002.



They can thank Michelin and their "widening" tires for that.

I did a quick internet search and found nothing, what's this about?

Tyre walls of Michelin rubber were changed in such a way that they adhered to the tyre width rules when static and cool, but heat and motion altered their shape to increase traction.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:13 am 
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What I wold have liked to see

2005: Alonso
2006: Schumacher - Retiring with a WDC would have been a good way to send him off
2007: Raikkonen
2008: Massa - He deserved that championship just as much as Hamilton
2009: Barrichello - After all the time in F1 I wanted to see him with at least 1 WDC
2010: Webber - Would have made my year, deserved just as much as anyone else in contention that year
2011: Vettel
2012: Alonso - He drove very well all year

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:13 am 
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Yuij Ide, 2006. Who can forget Imola that year?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:39 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
I'll get flamed for it but oh well,

Massa in 2008.
Hamilton in 2007.
Raikkonen in 2003 and 2005.
Alonso in 2012 and 2010.
Schumacher in 2006.

I agree with this completely.

Well, maybe Webber in 2010.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
Of the past few years,

Raikkonen 2003, 2005
Hamilton 2007
Webber 2010
Karthikeyan 2011, 2012


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 pm 
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alot of people say kimi deserved the 03 championship. but for me montoya was the one who deserved it most. he had realiability problems and a dodgy penalty (usa gp) that ended his chances.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Since this topic has become more of a who deserved the title each year, I'm going to give my opinion on each title.

I've been watching since about 1987, regularly since about 1990 so everything before then is based on what I've read and seen. So here's my list who I think should have won:

1950 - Arguably should have been Fangio, especially when you include his non-championship results
1951 - Maybe Farina or Ascari deserved it more than Fangio
1952 - Ascari, although he did have the advantage of no Fangio
1953 - Ascari again, but we'll not truly know due to Fangio's DNFs
1954 - Reverse of 1952, lack of Ascari hangs question marks over Fangio's title
1955 - Fangio, no contest
1956 - Moss should have probably edged it
1957 - Close, perhaps should have been Moss, but I'd still pick Fangio
1958 - Moss, I'm happy Hawthorn won, but deaths and his attitude to his teammate's death marred it, especially as Moss protested the DSQ of Hawthorn which handed it back to him
1959 - Brabham proved consistency wins
1960 - And Bruce McLaren that it didn't as while he stood on the podium more, Brabham won more races and deserved it
1961 - von Trips deserved it and ripped the German dream of their first World champion, rather than European, from them
1962 - I think Graham Hill did ultimately deserve it, but Clark could have won it with a bit more luck
1963 - No contest, Clark
1964 - While I'm happy Surtees won, Clark should have walked it again and deserved it
1965 - Clark, again a no brainer
1966 - In a season where reliability was poor and accidents high, Brabham kept his car on the black stuff and at the front, deserved
1967 - Should have perhaps been Clark or Brabham, but Hulme kept scoring podiums as others DNFed so deserved it
1968 - Clark would have probably won it had he not had his fatal accident, that aside Hill deserved it of those remaining
1969 - Stewart definitely deserved it
1970 - Rindt becomes the first German born and posthumous WDC, would have won by a greater margin had he survived
1971 - Stewart shows like Clark how dominant a Scottish driver can be, well done
1972 - Fittipaldi drove well, others promised but failed to deliver
1973 - Close call between Fittipaldi and Stewart, but I think the better driver won
1974 - With no Stewart, Fittipaldi was the best driver, but Regazzoni was equally deserving that year
1975 - Lauda, but only just
1976 - Had Lauda not had his accident, he may have won but I don't think it was that clear as Hunt looked on the rise just before, but I'll still pick Lauda
1977 - Lauda, through consistency
1978 - Andretti probably deserved it more, but Peterson could have won it if he hadn't had his accident and if team orders (from what I can tell) hadn't affected certain results
1979 - Villeneuve probably deserved it more, especially with his pace and late season surge
1980 - Right man in the right machinery, Alan Jones, arguably the best driver of his era to develop a racing car for not only himself, but others
1981 - Prost, his car was far too unreliable, when he did finish he was never off the podium
1982 - Prost was again let down by reliability, I like that Rosberg won but  it was by default
1983 - Piquet had far too good a car compared to the field, Prost should have probably won
1984 - Sorry to sound like a stuck record, and I am a Prost fan, but it should have been Alain again, Lauda had better reliability and just hung back and scooped up points when he didn't finish
1985 - With a better last few races, Alboreto could have snuck it, but Prost was probably still more deserving (especially when you consider his previous luck)
1986 - Tight at the top, but this should have been Mansell's first title
1987 - In the best package, this should have been Mansell title #2
1988 - Close season, under the 90s rules Prost would have won for finishing in the points more often, but Senna did deserve it
1989 - Prost, Senna seemed to think by this point Prost should move out his way and that attitude soured me to him especially later in his career when he blocked other drivers that were faster, he may possibly have been the better driver, but Prost was more deserving
1990 - Prost again, although Mansell effectively becoming his #2 did taint this, perhaps due to this Senna was the better result
1991 - The Williams was the better car, and perhaps Mansell should have won, but I think Senna was the right outcome
1992 - Best car, finally the WDC, but Senna was the better driver
1993 - Prost was in the best car, Senna would have probably won otherwise
1994 - If Senna had lived, he might have won the title, but I believe Schumacher had too much of a lead and the later circumstances might not have transpired, Hill had a car that had developed into the fastest and the FIA wanted a title fight to the end
1995 - Schumacher, he was too dominant
1996 - Schumacher was the best driver, but in an awful car so Hill was the best that actually stood a chance
1997 - Schumacher, his car had improved, but was still massively behind the Williams, then he blew it, had his car been the best he wouldn't have needed to try that move
1998 - I'd say Schumacher, but the McLaren was too good and so Häkkinen deserved it
1999 - If Schumacher hadn't had his crash he'd have probably won, out of the equation Irvine was good but Häkkinen deserved title #2
2000 - Schumacher, the car had started to come good, but he was the best driver
2001 - Schumacher again
2002 - Helped by the best car, but still Schumacher
2003 - As much as pains me to say McLaren deserved it, Räikkönen was the better season long
2004 - Schumacher again had the better car and a teammate willing to hand victories to him, but deserved it
2005 - Räikkönen again, but at the time I wasn't bothered as much as Schumacher lost and that was enough (I'd also targeted 2005 as when Renault would challenge for both titles 2-3 years earlier)
2006 - Alonso, just, as Schumacher had proved he was still the better driver by the season end
2007 - I was really pleased Räikkönen had done it with 'my' team, but it should really have been Hamilton
2008 - Maybe not the material for a champion, but Massa should have won only due to Räikkönen's poor luck
2009 - I'll stick my neck out and say Vettel, Button did well but without the luck and lead he had at the start of the year, Vettel was stronger season long
2010 - Glad Vettel won and he did have the fastest package, as a driver perhaps it should have been Alonso, but luck was on Alonso's side a little too often at times
2011 - Vettel shows his worth and fully deserved it
2012 - Hamilton had the fastest car most of the time but was clearly the best overall, Alonso didn't but was there when it counted, Vettel went for the maximum points he could without pushing until his car was the fastest and often didn't have the credit he deserved until the end - Vettel for me

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:30 pm 
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The ones that did win 1 or more WDC's.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:07 pm 
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2007 = Alonso if given equal status/backing would of won easily
2008 = hamilton or massa, both deserved it equally
2009 = button deserved it
2010 = vetel was best driver just a bit raw
2011 = vettel in a class of his own
2012 = Alonso was best driver just not best car


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Mark Webber

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Race2win wrote:
Raikonnen should have won with Mclaren... I think it was 2002? I forgOt

Kimi with McLaren both in 2003 & 2005. His car was quick but you just can´t expect anyone to make a comeback from the back of the grid like in every third race when his engine blew up during the qualifying. Even Norbert Haug has apologized this on behalf of his company many times afterwards.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:25 pm 
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diablof1 wrote:
alot of people say kimi deserved the 03 championship. but for me montoya was the one who deserved it most. he had realiability problems and a dodgy penalty (usa gp) that ended his chances.

This. Not sure why some people are saying Kimi deserved it over Montoya. He didn't have the drove of mechanical failures he had in '05 (in fact, JPM had one more) and he pretty much cost himself the championship by arsing up his quali in Spain. As you say, JPM's chances were ruined by being rear-ended by Pizzonia in Malaysia, team pitstop cock ups at San Marino, the horrific Indy penalty and the mid-season tyre rule change (*cough* FIArri *cough*). I know Mclaren had to deal with that too but, I seem to remember, the Michelins were a much more important part of the Williams package.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Tomitall73 wrote:
Race2win wrote:
Raikonnen should have won with Mclaren... I think it was 2002? I forgOt

Kimi with McLaren both in 2003 & 2005. His car was quick but you just can´t expect anyone to make a comeback from the back of the grid like in every third race when his engine blew up during the qualifying. Even Norbert Haug has apologized this on behalf of his company many times afterwards.


2005 that was. A lot of Mechanicals for Raikkonen.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:08 am 
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Senna 1993 - best driver that season by a country mile

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:11 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
1989 - Prost, Senna seemed to think by this point Prost should move out his way and that attitude soured me to him especially later in his career when he blocked other drivers that were faster, he may possibly have been the better driver, but Prost was more deserving


Disagree.

Even though Senna beat Prost 9-1 when they both finished a race?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:18 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
1981 - Prost, his car was far too unreliable, when he did finish he was never off the podium
1982 - Prost was again let down by reliability, I like that Rosberg won but  it was by default
1983 - Piquet had far too good a car compared to the field, Prost should have probably won
1984 - Sorry to sound like a stuck record, and I am a Prost fan, but it should have been Alain again, Lauda had better reliability and just hung back and scooped up points when he didn't finish
1985 - With a better last few races, Alboreto could have snuck it, but Prost was probably still more deserving (especially when you consider his previous luck)
1989 - Prost, Senna seemed to think by this point Prost should move out his way and that attitude soured me to him especially later in his career when he blocked other drivers that were faster, he may possibly have been the better driver, but Prost was more deserving
1990 - Prost again, although Mansell effectively becoming his #2 did taint this, perhaps due to this Senna was the better result
1993 - Prost was in the best car, Senna would have probably won otherwise


Prost gets 8 WDCs in your opinion... and i don't know why i can't disagree with such an excellent and UNBIASED post... :lol:

Hey, i'm a die-hard Prost fan, but wouldn't Senna deserve that 1993 title after what was arguably his best year in Formula 1 ?

And, doesn't Lauda fully deserve that 1984 title despite being apparently much slower than Prost? That was Lauda's best title, IMO.

And in 1982 i wouldn't say that Rosberg won it by default...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:27 am 
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purchville wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
1989 - Prost, Senna seemed to think by this point Prost should move out his way and that attitude soured me to him especially later in his career when he blocked other drivers that were faster, he may possibly have been the better driver, but Prost was more deserving


Disagree.

Even though Senna beat Prost 9-1 when they both finished a race?


Good stat, but i also have another stat:

Prost = 81 raw points
Senna = 60 raw points

With 9 points per win, the 21 points is equivalent to 2 extra wins over Senna. So the question to "who deserved it more" does not have a really clear answer.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:45 am 
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SATO!







Ahem. I thought Montoya was capable of a WDC, it's a shame he didn't really.
I'd also love for Raikkonen to pick up another


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:07 am 
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Montoya in 2003. The USGP penalty was bogus and his engine failed in Japan while he was leading, which might've been enough to overcome both Kimi and Michael, as well as the bad Williams' stops (not to mention his own stupid mistake in Australia).

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:02 am 
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flavio81 wrote:
purchville wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
1989 - Prost, Senna seemed to think by this point Prost should move out his way and that attitude soured me to him especially later in his career when he blocked other drivers that were faster, he may possibly have been the better driver, but Prost was more deserving


Disagree.

Even though Senna beat Prost 9-1 when they both finished a race?


Good stat, but i also have another stat:

Prost = 81 raw points
Senna = 60 raw points

With 9 points per win, the 21 points is equivalent to 2 extra wins over Senna. So the question to "who deserved it more" does not have a really clear answer.



Yes, I see your "point", excuse the pun ;)

Those 2 extra wins could have been Phoenix and Monza, where Senna was comfortably in the lead with Prost second by 5 seconds and 20 seconds respectively, before engine failures in both races. Then there was the gearbox issue at Silverstone when he was also leading Prost. In Canada, Senna would have gained a full 9 points over Prost (who suffered early suspension failure) if it weren't for another blown engine late in the race. That's +36 points to Senna and -9 to Prost = +27 to Senna which would have given him the title.

I won't go into Portugal (where he was also leading Prost before the collision with Mansell), or Japan...because there's been enough talk of that already.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:25 am 
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Would be an interesting excercise to go back and recalculate using the current points system (from say 95 on?) - does anyone know if that would have changed the WDC results for any years?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Gilles is the best driver ever behind Moss to never win a WDC, he deserved one for sure.

Clark and Prost should have had more imo. Both could have 5 each, Clark was insane.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:15 pm 
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1950: Fangio
1958: Moss, Collins
1964: Clark, G. Hill
1967: Clark
1968: Clark
1973: Peterson
1974: Peterson, Regazzoni
1976: Lauda
1979: G. Villeneuve
1981: Reuteman
1982: G. Villeneuve
1983: Prost
1984: Prost
1987: Mansell
1990: Prost
1994: D. Hill
2003: Montoya
2010: Webber, Alonso
2012: Alonso, Hamilton

IMO, Piquet is the most lucky since he lucked into 3 wdc's.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:22 am 
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WiredKiwi wrote:
Would be an interesting excercise to go back and recalculate using the current points system (from say 95 on?) - does anyone know if that would have changed the WDC results for any years?

I've drafted some reviews of 1995-2012 on the basis of a number of different systems incidentally - the only title that would change hands is 1999 going to Irvine.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:46 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

1973: Peterson
1974: Peterson, Regazzoni
1976: Lauda
1979: G. Villeneuve
1981: Reuteman
1982: G. Villeneuve
1983: Prost
1984: Prost
1987: Mansell
1990: Prost
1994: D. Hill


IMO, Piquet is the most lucky since he lucked into 3 wdc's.


:thumbup: for nicely managing 70's-90's + Piquet part! But I know this will anger some of my friends here,... so, sorry guys! ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:49 am 
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flavio81 wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
1981 - Prost, his car was far too unreliable, when he did finish he was never off the podium
1982 - Prost was again let down by reliability, I like that Rosberg won but  it was by default
1983 - Piquet had far too good a car compared to the field, Prost should have probably won
1984 - Sorry to sound like a stuck record, and I am a Prost fan, but it should have been Alain again, Lauda had better reliability and just hung back and scooped up points when he didn't finish
1985 - With a better last few races, Alboreto could have snuck it, but Prost was probably still more deserving (especially when you consider his previous luck)
1989 - Prost, Senna seemed to think by this point Prost should move out his way and that attitude soured me to him especially later in his career when he blocked other drivers that were faster, he may possibly have been the better driver, but Prost was more deserving
1990 - Prost again, although Mansell effectively becoming his #2 did taint this, perhaps due to this Senna was the better result
1993 - Prost was in the best car, Senna would have probably won otherwise


Prost gets 8 WDCs in your opinion... and i don't know why i can't disagree with such an excellent and UNBIASED post... :lol:

Hey, i'm a die-hard Prost fan, but wouldn't Senna deserve that 1993 title after what was arguably his best year in Formula 1 ?

And, doesn't Lauda fully deserve that 1984 title despite being apparently much slower than Prost? That was Lauda's best title, IMO.

And in 1982 i wouldn't say that Rosberg won it by default...

As much as I respect Keke, he only beat a man who missed the last 5 races of the season due to near fatal injuries (and pulled out of a race earlier in the season after Villeneuve's death) by 5 points. While every WDC is a massive achievement, I do think this ranks at the "lower" end of them.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Alain Prost is a great driver but his 1989 title was like Webber winning the 2011 title, absolutely miles behind his team mate but the his team mate retires from 7 races and just about beats him.

When Senna and Prost both finished in 1989, it was 9-1 to Senna and the 1 was only because Senna lost his front wing at the first corner. 4/5 of Prost Wins Senna retired in front of him.

2005 Kimi is just like 2012 Hamilton, althought 2005 Kimi was more extreme case. Kimi should have won 12 races in 2005 and Alonso 4/5. It ended up with them winning 7 each.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:11 am 
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Why does Wolfgang von Trips get so few mentions? He's the first name that comes to mind in these threads.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:38 am 
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Crangiopharengoma wrote:
Why does Wolfgang von Trips get so few mentions? He's the first name that comes to mind in these threads.


He was on for a WDC when he was involved in an accident that killed him. At Monza I think.

Something tells me he was clipped by Hill or Hawthorne and that started it. No where near 100% sure though.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:27 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Crangiopharengoma wrote:
Why does Wolfgang von Trips get so few mentions? He's the first name that comes to mind in these threads.


He was on for a WDC when he was involved in an accident that killed him. At Monza I think.

Something tells me he was clipped by Hill or Hawthorne and that started it. No where near 100% sure though.


I think it was Clark he tangled with.

The 1961 Ferrari was a dominant car but IMO neither P. Hill nor von Trips really convinced.


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