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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 am 
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As a percentage of their career.

Vettel has completed 101 races. 100 in Newey cars for a percentage of 99.01% of his career in Newey cars.

Can any driver beat this?

I thought maybe Scott Speed, but he was with Torro Rosso in 2006 and it wasn't based on the Newey Red Bull until 2007.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 am 
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Bourdais, 100% if you're counting the TR as being a Newey design?

edit: same for Alguersuari and Buemi?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:55 am 
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It doesn't really make sense to ask regarding these younger drivers. The same could have been said of Kimi, for example after 6 years in F1, but prior to heading off to Ferrari and then Lotus. Alguersauri and Buemi didn't have much of a chance to hop around before they lost their drives, but they may be back yet. Vettel may move on to another constructor down the line. Perez at Sauber and Maldonado at Williams were likely to have had some engineering consistency for their time in the sport so far - yet Hulkenberg has had a less stable team. So it is more a question of where you start and how long you stay before you move on.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:11 am 
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I'm tempted to say Coulthard (in terms of number of races), but I can't remember off the top of my head which Williams/McLaren/Red Bull cars Newey actually designed.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:25 am 
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mds wrote:
Bourdais, 100% if you're counting the TR as being a Newey design?

edit: same for Alguersuari and Buemi?

Bordais raced in 2009, which wasn't a Newey design.

Algersuari never drove a Newey car.

Buemi raced through 2009 and 2010, not Newey cars.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:29 am 
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bourbon19 wrote:
It doesn't really make sense to ask regarding these younger drivers. The same could have been said of Kimi, for example after 6 years in F1, but prior to heading off to Ferrari and then Lotus. Alguersauri and Buemi didn't have much of a chance to hop around before they lost their drives, but they may be back yet. Vettel may move on to another constructor down the line. Perez at Sauber and Maldonado at Williams were likely to have had some engineering consistency for their time in the sport so far - yet Hulkenberg has had a less stable team. So it is more a question of where you start and how long you stay before you move on.

Your little rant didn't answer anything.

If Vettel had been in F1 for 15 races sure, but he has had over 100 races now. Thats a F1 veteran really.

Also the question isnt "Can any member come in here and downplay the significance of a question in order to achieve his or her agenda"


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:37 am 
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infi24r wrote:
mds wrote:
Bourdais, 100% if you're counting the TR as being a Newey design?

edit: same for Alguersuari and Buemi?

Bordais raced in 2009, which wasn't a Newey design.

Algersuari never drove a Newey car.

Buemi raced through 2009 and 2010, not Newey cars.


The 2009 TR car was designed by Adrian Newey, it was almost a carbon copy of the RB5.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:43 am 
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Ok so Bordais has a higher percent at 100%.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:52 am 
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Mark Weber has definitely spent more time than Vettel in a Newey designed car.

The main question is has a driver won more championships than Vettel in Newey cars? :D Did Newey'
s Red Bull win a race before Vettel joined Red Bull?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:54 am 
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David Coulthard drove Newey cars in 10 out of his first 11 season in F1. Damon Hill drove in Newey cars for his first 4 years.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:24 am 
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Quark wrote:
Mark Weber has definitely spent more time than Vettel in a Newey designed car.

The main question is has a driver won more championships than Vettel in Newey cars? :D Did Newey'
s Red Bull win a race before Vettel joined Red Bull?


nope, Vettel won RBR first ever win in f1 .. as well as toro rosso's first and last win.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:29 am 
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infi24r wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It doesn't really make sense to ask regarding these younger drivers. The same could have been said of Kimi, for example after 6 years in F1, but prior to heading off to Ferrari and then Lotus. Alguersauri and Buemi didn't have much of a chance to hop around before they lost their drives, but they may be back yet. Vettel may move on to another constructor down the line. Perez at Sauber and Maldonado at Williams were likely to have had some engineering consistency for their time in the sport so far - yet Hulkenberg has had a less stable team. So it is more a question of where you start and how long you stay before you move on.

Your little rant didn't answer anything.

If Vettel had been in F1 for 15 races sure, but he has had over 100 races now. Thats a F1 veteran really.

Also the question isnt "Can any member come in here and downplay the significance of a question in order to achieve his or her agenda"

That wasn't a rant, this is a rant.

Boubon said at the start of his post that it's hard to talk about drivers at the beginning of their careers, because if they stay in the sport they're apt to change teams a couple of times, and if they don't they weren't good enough to worry about how much of their time was spent in a given designers car. Then went on to talk about Kimi who did spend several years at McClaren when Newey was there, but then moved on to other teams. Granted he didn't supply a percentage for how much of his time in the sport was in a Newey car, but did address your question.

At no point was the "significance" of your question, such as as it is, downplayed, nor was there any agenda of his own being displayed other than giving an opinion which didn't support your agenda.

I think that you're upset that your petty little attempt to continue to downplay Vettels achievements might turn into an interesting conversation instead of a bunch of people coming into this thread agreeing with you about how crap Vettel would be if he wasn't driving a Newey designed car.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:10 pm 
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DC has been a Newey driver far longer than anyone else.

Damon was at Williams for 4 years, same as Vettel at Red Bull. Mika and Newey were together 4 years too. Think Kimi/Newey might have been 5 years, can't remember if the '06 McLaren was a Newey design.

Gotta admit though this does seem like a 'Vettel's not so good without Newey' thread. In that case you might as well apply it to the rest of the field since they can't beat his cars either.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Akai wrote:
Quark wrote:
Mark Weber has definitely spent more time than Vettel in a Newey designed car.

The main question is has a driver won more championships than Vettel in Newey cars? :D Did Newey'
s Red Bull win a race before Vettel joined Red Bull?


nope, Vettel won RBR first ever win in f1 .. as well as toro rosso's first and last win.

Well, Williams won 5 Championships with Newey Designed cars.

Mansell won 1992, Prost 1993, Hill in 1996, Villeneuve in 1997 and Hakkinen in 1998 (with McLaren). So one single driver has not one more WDCs in a Newey car, but Newey's cars have won more WCCs than just with Vettel.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:48 pm 
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as a percentage of their career? Seems as relatively pointless figure to me. Maybe you could count MOST RACES in Newey car, Vettel would probably be rather high in this table too. Probably number 1 or very close to Häkkinen/Couldhart by now

But Back in a day it was a fight between Rory Byrne (Schumachers winning Benettons and Ferraris) and Newey. The former long retired, latter utterly dominates. Okey, Byrne still consults Ferrari to some extent.

From wikipedia:

From 1992 through 2004, the World Drivers' Championship was an exclusive battle between Rory Byrne and Newey, with Byrne engineering Michael Schumacher to seven titles whilst Adrian Newey engineered Mansell, Prost, Hill, Villeneuve and Häkkinen to six titles.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:02 pm 
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I'd say DC too.

I initially thought the OP was yet another dig at Vettel but some interesting facts have been quoted here.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:05 pm 
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benmc wrote:
DC has been a Newey driver far longer than anyone else.


The 1998 McLaren became a Newey car. Coulthard was at McLaren from 1996 to 2004, so that makes it 7 years at McLaren in a Newey car. But what's interesting is that Coulthard was at Williams in 1994 and '95. Two more years makes it a total of 9 years in a Newey car.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
benmc wrote:
DC has been a Newey driver far longer than anyone else.


The 1998 McLaren became a Newey car. Coulthard was at McLaren from 1996 to 2004, so that makes it 7 years at McLaren in a Newey car. But what's interesting is that Coulthard was at Williams in 1994 and '95. Two more years makes it a total of 9 years in a Newey car.


What about his 3 years in Newey cars at Red Bull?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:12 pm 
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monte wrote:
as a percentage of their career? Seems as relatively pointless figure to me. Maybe you could count MOST RACES in Newey car, Vettel would probably be rather high in this table too. Probably number 1 or very close to Häkkinen/Couldhart by now

But Back in a day it was a fight between Rory Byrne (Schumachers winning Benettons and Ferraris) and Newey. The former long retired, latter utterly dominates. Okey, Byrne still consults Ferrari to some extent.

From wikipedia:

From 1992 through 2004, the World Drivers' Championship was an exclusive battle between Rory Byrne and Newey, with Byrne engineering Michael Schumacher to seven titles whilst Adrian Newey engineered Mansell, Prost, Hill, Villeneuve and Häkkinen to six titles.


The top cars have tended to be Newey or Byrne cars. Michael, Seb, Kimi all tended to win races in these cars.

I wouldn't read too much into it, other than it was a good car. Michael was still blisteringly fast in 1996 driving a Barnard design, I'm sure Seb would be the same if he stepped into a car designed by Paddy Lowe or whoever (don't really know any other current aerodynamicists).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Interesting thread. From now on, whenever someone says anyone can win in Newey's cars, I'll just reference Coulthard with 0 WDC's out of 12 Newey-years ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
benmc wrote:
DC has been a Newey driver far longer than anyone else.


The 1998 McLaren became a Newey car. Coulthard was at McLaren from 1996 to 2004, so that makes it 7 years at McLaren in a Newey car. But what's interesting is that Coulthard was at Williams in 1994 and '95. Two more years makes it a total of 9 years in a Newey car.


don't forget his time in the Newey Red Bulls. There is another 2 years I think.

Then of course he was also test driver in '93.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Johnston wrote:

don't forget his time in the Newey Red Bulls. There is another 2 years I think.

Then of course he was also test driver in '93.


Actually it was 4: 2005-2008. That makes 13 seasons.
And he was test driver for RBR in 2009.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Kind of a silly question. The guy has driven for, practically, the same team his whole career - and the team has had the same chief of engineering the whole time. Of course 100% (excusing a single race for BMW Sauber) is going to be hard to beat.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:33 pm 
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mds wrote:
Johnston wrote:

don't forget his time in the Newey Red Bulls. There is another 2 years I think.

Then of course he was also test driver in '93.


Actually it was 4: 2005-2008. That makes 13 seasons.
And he was test driver for RBR in 2009.


The 2005 car was not a Newey design I believe.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:36 pm 
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I stand corrected, Newey joined in February 2006. So he didn't have much of a hand in the design of the RB2 either.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:41 pm 
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mds wrote:
I stand corrected, Newey joined in February 2006. So he didn't have much of a hand in the design of the RB2 either.


And let's not talk about the '3.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Asking for a percentage and asking for who has spent more time in one are two different things. I believe DC has spent the most time in a Newey car. Adrian says he has a ridiculously close relationship with only three drivers he has worked with, 1 being Bobby Rahal. He wouldn't say who the others are, but I suspect its DC and one of his current boys.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Newey has said he had a very close relationship with Hakkinen


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:17 pm 
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DC maybe?

But Newey isn't the "be all, end all" element in car design. If that is what OP is most likely implying, since thats what he usually says in other threads.

infi24r wrote:

Also the question isnt "Can any member come in here and downplay the significance of a question in order to achieve his or her agenda"



Don't start spewing bullshit like this to other members on this forum, when you are in fact one of the worst around here when it comes to doing what is quoted above.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:03 pm 
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To those saying DC the question is expressed as a percent.

DC could be up near 70% though, which has to be up there

I think bourdais will win this. Seb will be second. I can't think of anyone else


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:04 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Asking for a percentage and asking for who has spent more time in one are two different things. I believe DC has spent the most time in a Newey car. Adrian says he has a ridiculously close relationship with only three drivers he has worked with, 1 being Bobby Rahal. He wouldn't say who the others are, but I suspect its DC and one of his current boys.

Hill and hakkinen

Newey has always said he was outraged at how hill was treated at Williams and basically left because of that.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:28 pm 
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infi24r wrote:
To those saying DC the question is expressed as a percent.

DC could be up near 70% though, which has to be up there

I think bourdais will win this. Seb will be second. I can't think of anyone else


The percentage of races in the Newey-led designed chassis isn't nearly "significant" to your "significant" question. The correct numbers to look at would be total races and total seasons spent in those cars, and to not address it as a percentage based on total races of the career. That skews perception... though, with your M.O., you may indeed be looking for that...

This is going to be similar to me asking which drivers have spent the highest percentage of their careers racing in teams with $300m+ budgets. Several drivers immediately come to mind for near 100%. But it's completely an arbitrary comparison. You can't just "buy" a team. And Newey, however brilliant, is only one man in that team of 200+ people.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:59 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
infi24r wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It doesn't really make sense to ask regarding these younger drivers. The same could have been said of Kimi, for example after 6 years in F1, but prior to heading off to Ferrari and then Lotus. Alguersauri and Buemi didn't have much of a chance to hop around before they lost their drives, but they may be back yet. Vettel may move on to another constructor down the line. Perez at Sauber and Maldonado at Williams were likely to have had some engineering consistency for their time in the sport so far - yet Hulkenberg has had a less stable team. So it is more a question of where you start and how long you stay before you move on.

Your little rant didn't answer anything.

If Vettel had been in F1 for 15 races sure, but he has had over 100 races now. Thats a F1 veteran really.

Also the question isnt "Can any member come in here and downplay the significance of a question in order to achieve his or her agenda"

That wasn't a rant, this is a rant.

Boubon said at the start of his post that it's hard to talk about drivers at the beginning of their careers, because if they stay in the sport they're apt to change teams a couple of times, and if they don't they weren't good enough to worry about how much of their time was spent in a given designers car. Then went on to talk about Kimi who did spend several years at McClaren when Newey was there, but then moved on to other teams. Granted he didn't supply a percentage for how much of his time in the sport was in a Newey car, but did address your question.

At no point was the "significance" of your question, such as as it is, downplayed, nor was there any agenda of his own being displayed other than giving an opinion which didn't support your agenda.

I think that you're upset that your petty little attempt to continue to downplay Vettels achievements might turn into an interesting conversation instead of a bunch of people coming into this thread agreeing with you about how crap Vettel would be if he wasn't driving a Newey designed car.


Bullseye.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:40 pm 
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infi24r wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It doesn't really make sense to ask regarding these younger drivers. The same could have been said of Kimi, for example after 6 years in F1, but prior to heading off to Ferrari and then Lotus. Alguersauri and Buemi didn't have much of a chance to hop around before they lost their drives, but they may be back yet. Vettel may move on to another constructor down the line. Perez at Sauber and Maldonado at Williams were likely to have had some engineering consistency for their time in the sport so far - yet Hulkenberg has had a less stable team. So it is more a question of where you start and how long you stay before you move on.

Your little rant didn't answer anything.

If Vettel had been in F1 for 15 races sure, but he has had over 100 races now. Thats a F1 veteran really.

Also the question isnt "Can any member come in here and downplay the significance of a question in order to achieve his or her agenda"


I have no agenda regarding this issue. I don't see any real significance in the question of who has driven the most races in a Newey car. However, some of the considerations impacting the question posed are rather interesting.

I am bright enough and have read enough of your posts to understand that you might actually have an underlying agenda to prove that Seb's entire career is founded on his driving Newey cars and that without them, he might have diminished results. But I've gone around with you before and I made it clear that for me it is always the "driver + car" - so any goals you have toward proving anything in that regard are quite meaningless to me. If he has been good enough to retain his seat in Newey cars then the "car" portion of his "car + driver" combination is going to be competitive - and that is generally the case for all top drivers that remain in top cars.

One important point that is not spoken of much is that Newey has a design team - and implementation of the design is equally as important, so there are a number of people, some very key, that warrant recognition for the competitive cars turned out. Newey is fully deserving of the recognition and all the acolades he receives, but one must not forget the big picture - and the driver is a part of that equation as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:50 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Asking for a percentage and asking for who has spent more time in one are two different things. I believe DC has spent the most time in a Newey car. Adrian says he has a ridiculously close relationship with only three drivers he has worked with, 1 being Bobby Rahal. He wouldn't say who the others are, but I suspect its DC and one of his current boys.

that'll be Webber then...too bad he's forced to design the car around Vettel

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:21 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Asking for a percentage and asking for who has spent more time in one are two different things. I believe DC has spent the most time in a Newey car. Adrian says he has a ridiculously close relationship with only three drivers he has worked with, 1 being Bobby Rahal. He wouldn't say who the others are, but I suspect its DC and one of his current boys.

that'll be Webber then...too bad he's forced to design the car around Vettel


Guess that's a joke post. It's only Webber's fault he's not won a championship in the best car for the last 3 seasons, no one else's.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:29 am 
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Jomox wrote:
Formula1Fan. wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Asking for a percentage and asking for who has spent more time in one are two different things. I believe DC has spent the most time in a Newey car. Adrian says he has a ridiculously close relationship with only three drivers he has worked with, 1 being Bobby Rahal. He wouldn't say who the others are, but I suspect its DC and one of his current boys.

that'll be Webber then...too bad he's forced to design the car around Vettel


Guess that's a joke post. It's only Webber's fault he's not won a championship in the best car for the last 3 seasons, no one else's.

It is a fact, there was a link with Horner's quotes provided on it prior to the 2010 season (on a another thread). The car is built around Vettel and has been since 2009, Webber has had to make do. Suck it up buttercup.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:22 am 
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infi24r wrote:
As a percentage of their career.

Vettel has completed 101 races. 100 in Newey cars for a percentage of 99.01% of his career in Newey cars.

Can any driver beat this?

I thought maybe Scott Speed, but he was with Torro Rosso in 2006 and it wasn't based on the Newey Red Bull until 2007.



Webber has spent more time than Vettel with Schumi... I notice you try to make a leap between Vettel and Newey but the Roso's were old tech compared to the RB's and had different engines...

Instead of % do amount of races


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:11 am 
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infi24r wrote:
As a percentage of their career.

Vettel has completed 101 races. 100 in Newey cars for a percentage of 99.01% of his career in Newey cars.

Can any driver beat this?

I thought maybe Scott Speed, but he was with Torro Rosso in 2006 and it wasn't based on the Newey Red Bull until 2007.

Out f interest , what does it matter?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:14 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Formula1Fan. wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Asking for a percentage and asking for who has spent more time in one are two different things. I believe DC has spent the most time in a Newey car. Adrian says he has a ridiculously close relationship with only three drivers he has worked with, 1 being Bobby Rahal. He wouldn't say who the others are, but I suspect its DC and one of his current boys.

that'll be Webber then...too bad he's forced to design the car around Vettel


Guess that's a joke post. It's only Webber's fault he's not won a championship in the best car for the last 3 seasons, no one else's.

It is a fact, there was a link with Horner's quotes provided on it prior to the 2010 season (on a another thread). The car is built around Vettel and has been since 2009, Webber has had to make do. Suck it up buttercup.

I think its you who s sucking it up , seeing Vettel winning these titles , even when according to you , Webber is Newey s close one .


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