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Which team will improve the most from their performances in 2012, over the 2013 season?
Red Bull 4%  4%  [ 6 ]
Ferrari 6%  6%  [ 10 ]
McLaren 9%  9%  [ 14 ]
Lotus 19%  19%  [ 29 ]
Mercedes 37%  37%  [ 58 ]
Sauber 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Force India 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Williams 7%  7%  [ 11 ]
Toro Rosso 5%  5%  [ 8 ]
Caterham 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Marussia 6%  6%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 156
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:20 am 
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So, after a wonderful 2012, who can move up the pecking order in 2013?

RB- Dominant 2011, but were certainly not the quickest car over the course of the season in 2012. Despite Vettel's success again, Webber was not a regular podium visitor. Can they regain that huge advantage they had when Vettel stormed to title and clinched it in Japan?

Ferrari- Slow from the start and were always playing catch up. Never appeared to be a solid race-winning car over the course of a normal dry weekend (except Spain, though Nando did excellently to capitalise in Germany and Valencia). Will the Scuderia be challenging for wins all season?

McLaren- Looked very strong in early season, and some predicted it would be a two-horse race between Button and Hamilton. But reliability issues and team mistakes almost certainly cost them both championships. We know the car is fast. With the inexperienced Perez arriving, can they sort out their problems and triumph in 2013?

Lotus- Blew hot and cold, but a solid number of podiums show the team have a good foundation. Raikkonen's sole win was comfortable, if not fortuitous due to Hamilton's retirement. Can they take it a step further and be consistently on the top step?

Mercedes- Finally clinched their first win after returning to the sport in China. But the season trailed off remarkably from their and the end of season form was disastrous. Hamilton is arriving so the team should be more motivated. Are the team going to get back to the front of the field?

Sauber- In one of the surprises of the season, the perennially-midfield Sauber frequently made it into to the top 6, whether in qualifying or on race day. But two new drivers could disrupt that momentum. Could the highly-rated Hulkenberg clinch the team's first ever win as an independent outfit?

Force India- Reliable points-scorers in the second half of the season, though seemed to lack the pace to get on to the podium for the first time since Fisichella's 2nd in Spa 2009. Hulkenberg was very close in Brazil and arguably should have won. Though the team will be looking for regular podiums next year. With di Resta, and all their other potential driver options (excluding Kovalainen and Kobayashi), they will not have a driver to have ever achieved that feat; are they likely to break that trend?

Williams- An excellent Maldonado win ended Williams' agonisingly long win drought. But errors and idiocy from the Venezuelan cost them more podiums, and Senna's lack of qualifying pace meant that their championship standing didn't reflect what the car was capable of. Can Maldonado get his act together, and is Bottas the real deal?

Toro Rosso- Rookie drivers and a poor car meant 2012 was a huge leap backwards for the team, which is unlikely to get anywhere near the front of the field. James Key has been drafted in, and the drivers will be more experienced and likely to perform better. Can they replicate their successful 2011 season?

Caterham- But for the last few laps of Brazil, Caterham were looking to finish behind their closest rivals Marussia for the first time. Petrov may have saved his seat by clinching 10th in the championship, and looked more than a match for Kovalainen. Uncertainty with the team line-up at present will not help, but with a budget to rival Sauber, will 2013 finally be the breakthrough year?

Marussia- A desperately late overtake snatched 10th place away from Marussia, but they came on leaps and bounds during 2012 to equal - even occasionally outrace - Caterham. Lowdon has recently said that he believes the team to be able to produce a top 10 car - will he be right?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:25 am 
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STR have been working on their new car with their new designer for 2/3 of the 2012 season, so hopefully the Faenza squad can push something at least competitive out of the box.

Mercedes will hopefully have a jump, as their struggles in 2012 might suggest they're focusing more on next year.

Murussia showed a surge of pace late last year. Hopefully it continues into 2013.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:39 am 
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Since I had only 1 option to choose I chose Lotus. With new sponsors signed up I am hoping they move up and challenge the biggies. But apart from that I am from that I am expecting Williams to move to the middle order. Their car showed flashes of brilliance. Lastly being a Indian and slightly biased Id love to see Force India move up with their cash injection.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:21 am 
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I voted McLaren, they can be dominant if they sort out their reliability.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:39 am 
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I hit Williams. I expect Bottas to bring consistent performance which should help Williams move to upper midfield. Or hope so, as You like ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:51 am 
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Went for Marussia. They will have KERS that is at least 0.4 seconds of lap time gained.

Plus after ditching Nick Wirth and CFD midway through 2012. Pat Symonds fully switched development to the good old fashioned wind tunnel and they car was improving race by race.

I'm thinking that they will not only beat Catherham but also the Torro Rosso's next season.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:46 am 
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Maybe I expect too much from Hamilton but I voted for Mercedes. And wow Mercedes is comfortably getting most votes so far!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:30 pm 
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IMO McLaren have a huge potential for 2013, they where the fastest car in 2012, best pitstops and broke the Red Bull domination in qualifying.

As a second to that I Believe Ferrari has a leap forward to do.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:44 pm 
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I feel Lotus will win more races and more podiums next year with Kimi settled in and if either Grojean or Kobayashi stay im sure they will e good enough for more podiums next year.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:57 pm 
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If you look at the second half of 2012 compared to the first half of 2013, I'd be almost certain it's Mercedes. After all, they had good speed in the beginning of 2012 with Rosberg even scoring a victory, then to fall back to basically nowhere as the year went on. My prediction would be Mercedes starting 2013 in roughly the same way as 2013, with the team being quite high up there, possibly even getting a victory. The team does seem to have huge trouble with keeping up pace over the year though, so I doubt they're the ones to improve the most in 2013.

So what are the other choices? Force India scored the fifth most points in the second half of 2012, and will want to continue that trend. Hülkenberg leaving may hurt a bit, but it may also keep the team up depending on who is driving. Williams had raw speed this year, but Maldonado was too inconsistent in racing and Senna simply didn't put the car where it could have been. If they can be as competitive in 2013, Maldonado gets more secure in racing and Bottas can keep up to a good extent, they could improve quite a bit. Lotus could be a viable choice - they've got lots of money coming in via Coca-Cola and supposedly Honeywell, have the nearly-mythical device planned for 2013 (DDRS is gone, but the device isn't). They were competitive this year already, but they'll want to get that top 3 WCC finish.

However, one team overshadows them all - Scuderia Toro Rosso. Their 2012 season wasn't good, and I don't think it was the drivers, who I consider solid. They were inexperienced this year, but will put their 2012 experience to good use in 2013. The recruitment of James Key can give the car development a boost, and if STR can develop a good enough car, their drivers could have a fierce battle in the midfield. After all, STR scored as many points in 2012 as Jaime Alguersuari did alone in 2011, and their development was concentrated on the 2013 car. Certainly, they're definitely not alone in doing so, but if they can develop a car about like 2011 and James Key can provide some knowledge, I would think they are the team that will improve the most in 2013, if comparing the 2012 season in full to the entire 2013 season.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:03 pm 
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I wonder what how all the Mercedes staff reacted when they found out Hamilton was arriving.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Water wrote:
If you look at the second half of 2012 compared to the first half of 2013, I'd be almost certain it's Mercedes. After all, they had good speed in the beginning of 2012 with Rosberg even scoring a victory, then to fall back to basically nowhere as the year went on. My prediction would be Mercedes starting 2013 in roughly the same way as 2013, with the team being quite high up there, possibly even getting a victory. The team does seem to have huge trouble with keeping up pace over the year though, so I doubt they're the ones to improve the most in 2013.

So what are the other choices? Force India scored the fifth most points in the second half of 2012, and will want to continue that trend. Hülkenberg leaving may hurt a bit, but it may also keep the team up depending on who is driving. Williams had raw speed this year, but Maldonado was too inconsistent in racing and Senna simply didn't put the car where it could have been. If they can be as competitive in 2013, Maldonado gets more secure in racing and Bottas can keep up to a good extent, they could improve quite a bit. Lotus could be a viable choice - they've got lots of money coming in via Coca-Cola and supposedly Honeywell, have the nearly-mythical device planned for 2013 (DDRS is gone, but the device isn't). They were competitive this year already, but they'll want to get that top 3 WCC finish.



Most of this makes sound reading, but I'll back off with RBRII. Hamilton is still the best driver on the grid but with such a suspect temperament it's hard to put any cash behind him. He's made his bed and there's no where else to run to so I expect him to see things out. If Hamilton or Mercedes can get the tyres working on that car I would not put anything against them. We are going to be going backwards performance wise due to the regulation changes and the cars will be something like they were after 1 month of this season. I would put RBR as about a season ahead of the field and have to be the favourites for a repeat but when you get the tyres on such a hair trigger, anything can happen. Though it is expected the tyres will be that little more conservative. Ferrari had such a poor car, elevated by changeable conditions that may be difficult to repeat. Alonso will always be a threat but I am not sure the design team is. McLaren should do well but what's to say they won't get left with 2 drivers that can't get the tyres to work? Any one of Sauber, Lotus or Williams could pull it off in such difficult time, though realistically Lotus would be the pick.

I would expect you can pick out all the consistent DNF's for RBR/alternator and McLaren/g-box as I don't believe they will be carrying those problems through. Though RBR and KERS may still not have ceded.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Mercedes...he said, optimistically.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:56 pm 
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If 'improvement' is judged on the basis of additional points gained and positional advancement, I guess it would be Lotus. Mercerdes could do better, but judging by their problems in 2012, not by much IMO.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Mercedes!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Williams will be top 6.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:24 pm 
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I expect the most noticeable improvement should be Mercedes as it wasn't as bad IMO as it was disappointing in terms of results. And those disappointing results leave it more room for improvement. Though I am hoping that will be a prediction I'm very wrong about.

But I really look forward to seeing what Marussia may do with the extra year of development and KERS. The team has done some things on a small scale that I like, and would really like to see it become part of that midfield crowd, even though I expect it to be the lower part of that pack.

Lotus I expect to be improved, but unless Kimi can win more than once, it will be harder to notice as much of the improvement was made this past year. While because of too many incidents, I think Williams could show marked improvement with more consistency from its drivers.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Toby. wrote:

Mercedes will hopefully have a jump, as their struggles in 2012 might suggest they're focusing more on next year.



Even if they do have a jump, remember they did in 2012 at the start. And although they got the pole and win in China, and pole in Monaco, they rapidly slid backwards after. The evidence suggests that something like that will happen next year!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Toby. wrote:

Mercedes will hopefully have a jump, as their struggles in 2012 might suggest they're focusing more on next year.



Even if they do have a jump, remember they did in 2012 at the start. And although they got the pole and win in China, and pole in Monaco, they rapidly slid backwards after. The evidence suggests that something like that will happen next year!

Not sure. Mercedes did some big changes at mid season ( aerogroup reshuffle, wind tunnel rebuilding). They have been some time without a leader at the areo department, at the same time the windtunnel was not able to use.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:59 pm 
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McLaren will hopefully get a handle on their reliability.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:58 pm 
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With the rules being so stable, I think it will be either McLaren or Mercedes. McLaren clearly have the raw pace in their car to be the fastest comfortably, and if they can get the reliability together then they should be set.

Mercedes have the budget to develop a good chassis next year. Not that they're going to. They've had 3 years to design a decent car. 3 years of stable regs, the fact that they haven't caught onto the top 3 is a mystery to me.


Ferrari probably won't improve much. More of the same old same old. Alonso qualifying around P5, then racing for podiums really. I don't think Ferrari know what to do to make their car the fastest, because, if they did, they wouldn't have sat around at the end of the season swapping rear wings every week looking completely clueless.

I voted McLaren though. I have much more faith in them than Merc.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:28 am 
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Mercedes. Because Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Mercedes for me also. I hope so anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:17 pm 
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If we're looking at the end of season points totals, then I'd have thought it'll be Lotus who improve the most next year; however, I believe that's because whoever their 2nd driver is in 2013 will score points more consistently than Grosjean did this year.

I voted for Mercedes though, as I think they will finally take the step up next season and make it five teams that can realistically be consistently in the hunt for a win each weekend.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Good to see Lewis' fans are out in force even on the off season... :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:41 pm 
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I think Williams will really step their game up next season. Same with Mercedes, I'm more interested to see how Rosberg does against Hamilton though.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Brawn signed Geoff Willis, Bob Bell and Aldo costa, they have to start having an impact sooner or later. They also have one of the best wind tunnels in the business and I think I'm right in saying Merc recently bought out the other shareholders in the team suggesting they might be ready to start pumping in the money.

That said Brawn has to overcome whatever stopped the former Honda team performing at the level it should've done. They also have a large deficit to make up to the front runners so even a good improvement might not leave them as front runners.

The most visible improvement might be Lotus, the old Renault team have always been good at punching above their weight and their car this year was possibly the 3rd quickest car overall, it wouldn't take all that much for them to be regularly winning.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Mercedes Hopefully.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Marussia will make a big step I think. They have assistance from Mclaren, which leads me to believe that they could what Force India did. Marussia did very well this year, considering that they had no KERS, an outdated gearbox and an underpowered engine. Hopefully they can secure better engines for next season.

Caterham will probably make a big improvement, but it's sort of overdue already imo.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Mercedes, and not just because of Hamilton's arrival. They really underperformed this year and with their resources should do much better in 2013. Other than that Williams seem to be heading in the right direction and Marussia started to show some real progress toward the tail end of the year and with KERS next year they'll take another step forward


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:33 am 
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I think Marussia might make the jump across the gap between the bottom 3 (or 2 now I suppose) and the rest.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:24 am 
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  • RedBull – I would expect no change as the top team, mainly because of Adrian Newey & Vettel/Webber.
  • Lotus – a newfound faith after the latter half of 2012 season (thanks to Raikkonnen) should give them new hopes. And with a more consistent teammate this team can make a few jumps perhaps even ending at third or second place.
  • McLaren - if Sergio doesn't spin away most of his races and Button scores consistently
  • Mercedes - if the relationship with Hamilton & his team engineers work out well and if Hamilton is let loose. Expect a few engine blow-outs, purely to Hamilton’s driving style of pushing the car to the limit.
  • Ferrari – hard to tell, Ferrari lacks an “AdrianNewey-esque” figure to guide them in designing a proper winning car. Expect Alonso to give his best. Massa – not so sure.
  • Sauber – Hulkenberg should continue his excellent streak especially in the wet, he seems to be better than the rest (including Vettel) to drive in the wet, no matter what the car condition is.
  • Williams – if Maldonado can finish more consistently with points, then I would expect Williams to finish even higher than Sauber.
  • Force India – really depends if they have a competitive no. 2 driver, I don’t think di Resta will push himself unless he has a personal “drive” to deliver. The car needs to make giant strides to improve as well.
  • Caterham – should be their year to improve, perhaps even catch Force India.
  • Torro Rosso – under pressure to impress their Red Bull bosses and perhaps even score a few points.
  • Marussia – really a dark horse, not sure how they will perform. But should be very interesting to see.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:45 am 
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Redbull.

They were all over the place in the beginning - very unlike Redbull.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:53 am 
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My Crystal Ball predicts

- Ferrari to close the gap on Red Bull due to Massa's improvements/Webber's deterioration
- Mclaren to fall back slightly
- Merc and Lotus to be pretty equal, just behind Mclaren
- Williams to overtake Sauber and Force India - Bottas will push Maldonado and score regular points so Maldo will need to fill in with some solid lower end points when the podiums aren't up for grabs.
- Feel Hulk will do well at Sauber but Gutierrez will struggle for consistency. Force India to edge Sauber.
- Caterham and Marussia to start promisingly and cause one or two upsets, but get overhauled by Toro Rosso by mid-season.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Amon wrote:
Maybe I expect too much from Hamilton but I voted for Mercedes. And wow Mercedes is comfortably getting most votes so far!

I voted Mercedes as well but I don't think you or I for that matter, think too much of Lewis. From what I've seen I think he can account for another second from the car. Using Alonso, Kovalainen and Button as a measuring stick, when he's in top form he's good for almost another second over another driver in the same car though with Alonso it was more consistently back and forth and they were closely matched.

Although I might be a bit too optimistic, I am eagerly anticipating a surprising start from Lewis int he Mercedes come march! To be honest, I have no idea when or how I became a fan of Lewis'. It just happened!!! LOLOL

I guess it's a sign of a great driver.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:25 pm 
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I have a feeling Williams will improve the most. They took a big step in the right direction this season and are ready to take another step to put themselves up there (or almost).

No high hopes for Mercedes. The last three season we have seen none to very little improvment or even backwords at times. Hamilton will not improve the outfit either and will have tough competitor in Rosberg. Infact Hamilton could be a handfull to handle if things going wrong. I ask myself how long it will take for him to call out the team if he just suffer a fraction of the mechanical problems Schumacher did from the get go, like loose wheelnut when running in second, losing wheel on warmup lap, gear box failures, jammed DRS, tyres going off like crazy and so on. It could get ugly fast within the team.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Clouseau wrote:
I have a feeling Williams will improve the most. They took a big step in the right direction this season and are ready to take another step to put themselves up there (or almost).

No high hopes for Mercedes. The last three season we have seen none to very little improvment or even backwords at times. Hamilton will not improve the outfit either and will have tough competitor in Rosberg. Infact Hamilton could be a handfull to handle if things going wrong. I ask myself how long it will take for him to call out the team if he just suffer a fraction of the mechanical problems Schumacher did from the get go, like loose wheelnut when running in second, losing wheel on warmup lap, gear box failures, jammed DRS, tyres going off like crazy and so on. It could get ugly fast within the team.

Did you hear Hamilton call out McLaren after they made mistakes 80% of the races this season?
Mercedes could not do much worse with team mistakes like McLaren did this season

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Did you hear Hamilton call out McLaren after they made mistakes 80% of the races this season?
Yes I did. Both in media as well as over the radio during races. Claiming the team made mistakes 80% of the races is very exaggerated, not counting pit stops half a second or a second off.

Haribo wrote:
Mercedes could not do much worse with team mistakes like McLaren did this season
Really? Did you see last season?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Clouseau wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Did you hear Hamilton call out McLaren after they made mistakes 80% of the races this season?
Yes I did. Both in media as well as over the radio during races. Claiming the team made mistakes 80% of the races is very exaggerated.

Haribo wrote:
Mercedes could not do much worse with team mistakes like McLaren did this season
Really? Did you see last season?

Calling out the team in the media, where? Over the radio, what?
Can't remember more than 2 races where absolutely nothing went wrong for Hamilton. Even at races he won he had some slow pit stops

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Can't remember more than 2 races where absolutely nothing went wrong for Hamilton. Even at races he won he had some slow pit stops

This I agree with 100%. Were it not for Mistakes made by his team, the WDC picture would have looked a bit differently. It's not like all the other teams are perfect but this year the Mighty McLaren made too many of them in critical situations that cost Lewis dearly. He'd have scored more points leaving less of them for the rest of the field to fight over. I can't imagine how anyone can take issue with anything he said whilst in the heat of battle. the guy is driving his heart/donkey off to be in full control of races only to watch them slip away time and again, through no fault of his own.

Twittergate on the other hand was a huge No-No and Lewis knew better. I don't know if it was a decision brought about by frustration or one Lewis purposely made as if to say I'm out of here anyways, but either way, it's something he should've never done.

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