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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:24 pm 
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http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/83198 ... a-In-2013-

Thoughts guys?

This is an onboard of schumi 10 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6KiqCDn1f4


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:46 pm 
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i would love to see this, i thought it was a great circuit from video games with the circuit in it but dont remember much racing from the circuit


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Lovely little track, not sure it's suited to high powered F1 cars though. Not a massive amount of runoff if something goes wrong, especially at T1/T3.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:22 pm 
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I never really liked the circuit so can't say I'd be particularly enthused to see it back on the calendar. It just seemed a bit bland to me. I'd rather see Turkey return


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Ev0lutionz wrote:
This is an onboard of schumi 10 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6KiqCDn1f4

0:20 and 1:15

I love that nervous rear end during braking, these days you only get a locked inner front wheel max.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:44 pm 
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huggybear wrote:
Lovely little track, not sure it's suited to high powered F1 cars though. Not a massive amount of runoff if something goes wrong, especially at T1/T3.

Last time F1s were in A1-Ring was 2003. This year cars were roughly 2 seconds faster than 2003. Is the difference so dramatic that A1 (Red Bull) Ring wouldn't match the standards anymore? I bet that cars are also safer nowadays.
I've heard that if Monaco was introduced today, it wouldn't have a change to get in F1 calendar. Still, we see F1s racing there every year without a problem. So, sometimes I feel that FIA's standards are a bit over the top...
I would love to see Formulas back in Austria. Going up and down those hills, tyres kissing the grass...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:59 pm 
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KingOfSpa wrote:
huggybear wrote:
Lovely little track, not sure it's suited to high powered F1 cars though. Not a massive amount of runoff if something goes wrong, especially at T1/T3.

Last time F1s were in A1-Ring was 2003. This year cars were roughly 2 seconds faster than 2003. Is the difference so dramatic that A1 (Red Bull) Ring wouldn't match the standards anymore? I bet that cars are also safer nowadays.
I've heard that if Monaco was introduced today, it wouldn't have a change to get in F1 calendar. Still, we see F1s racing there every year without a problem. So, sometimes I feel that FIA's standards are a bit over the top...
I would love to see Formulas back in Austria. Going up and down those hills, tyres kissing the grass...


They were also significantly more powerful.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Perhaps a daft question, but is the circuit long enough? Granted I've seen a few circuit maps that suggests they've added some more variations, but the video posted above shows Schumacher doing a lap in 1 minute 8 seconds. I know a few circuits are around the 72 second mark, but sub 70 seconds in this day & age is pretty rare. In fact, the fastest lap this season on any circuit was at Canada, which was a 1:15:752 by Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:24 pm 
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I wouldn't think that the lap times would matter too much. If they raced there, they'd race either for 2 hours, or however many laps equates to 305-310km.

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Last edited by Misinformed on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:39 pm 
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KingOfSpa wrote:
huggybear wrote:
Lovely little track, not sure it's suited to high powered F1 cars though. Not a massive amount of runoff if something goes wrong, especially at T1/T3.

Last time F1s were in A1-Ring was 2003. This year cars were roughly 2 seconds faster than 2003. Is the difference so dramatic that A1 (Red Bull) Ring wouldn't match the standards anymore? I bet that cars are also safer nowadays.
I've heard that if Monaco was introduced today, it wouldn't have a change to get in F1 calendar. Still, we see F1s racing there every year without a problem. So, sometimes I feel that FIA's standards are a bit over the top...
I would love to see Formulas back in Austria. Going up and down those hills, tyres kissing the grass...


According to Marko's announcement, the circuite DOES already meet current regulations for F1 - It holds a valid F1 circuit license.

Since when were runoff areas a major deal anyway? We have none at some pretty fast street circuit corners and its never been an issue. Minor modifications can always be added in to slow cars in those areas anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Misinformed wrote:
I wouldn't think that the lap times would matter to much. If that raced there, they'd race either for 2 hours, or however many laps equates to 305-310km.


In terms of track space for things like safety cars to bunch the field up, and clean laps in quali it would be a pain.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:59 pm 
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huggybear wrote:
Misinformed wrote:
I wouldn't think that the lap times would matter to much. If that raced there, they'd race either for 2 hours, or however many laps equates to 305-310km.


In terms of track space for things like safety cars to bunch the field up, and clean laps in quali it would be a pain.


Interlagos track length - 4.309 km (2.676 mi)
Red Bull Ring track length - 4.326 km (2.688 mi)

As you can see, so if we have Interlagos then why not Red bull ring? It is a fun and popular track.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:09 pm 
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G1n wrote:
huggybear wrote:
Misinformed wrote:
I wouldn't think that the lap times would matter to much. If that raced there, they'd race either for 2 hours, or however many laps equates to 305-310km.


In terms of track space for things like safety cars to bunch the field up, and clean laps in quali it would be a pain.


Interlagos track length - 4.309 km (2.676 mi)
Red Bull Ring track length - 4.326 km (2.688 mi)

As you can see, so if we have Interlagos then why not Red bull ring? It is a fun and popular track.


Watching Schumacher driving in 2002 on that video really was a joy, low downforce, low grip, sliding (he eventually spun).

It's a very picturesque track too, lots of verdant trees and dramatic terrain changes. The last race there in 2003 was reasonably exciting, as was 1999.

What changes have they made to the track?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:02 am 
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Lovely video, Schumi on the edge, and of course hearing the 930bhp V-10 in the back of the Ferrari is music to the ears.

I don't see anything about the track that makes it any less safe now than those days, with cars that reached much higher top speeds with V-10's than they do now with V-8's.

I bet you that the FIA would like for every single corner to have the sand removed and tarmac put it in though----that's a foregone conclusion. Come to think of it, it may have been done already. I haven't seen the recent pictures of the Red Bull Ring.

At any rate, I would like to see this track on the calendar. It's absolutely gorgeous, and I remember good races there. The opening laps are epic into turn 2, with people trying to outbrake there. If Turkey is out of the running due to lack of government funding, the Red Bull Ring would be a nice addition in my eyes.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:14 am 
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I did some google searches on the web, and the last two turns have had all of the sand removed, and replaced with large tarmac runoff areas. Turn 1 as well.

So, from that standpoint, it must meet current safety regulations the FIA has set for runoff areas.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:41 am 
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I have been hoping for Austin to come back for many years now. I think its a great track with lot of gradient changes and opportunities for overtaking without DRS. It is one of the classics and I would love to see it back


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:50 am 
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ManojHS wrote:
I have been hoping for Austin to come back for many years now. I think its a great track with lot of gradient changes and opportunities for overtaking without DRS. It is one of the classics and I would love to see it back

Austin :o

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:58 am 
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Eva09 wrote:
Watching Schumacher driving in 2002 on that video really was a joy, low downforce, low grip, sliding (he eventually spun).

It's a very picturesque track too, lots of verdant trees and dramatic terrain changes. The last race there in 2003 was reasonably exciting, as was 1999.

What changes have they made to the track?


basically they refurbished the old (2003-spec) track... let me explain in detail: redbull bought the track after 2003 and had big plans for it (including, airfields, test-tracks, race-tracks, a.s.o.) - however politicians and the public did everything they could to stop the project - which led to the work being stopped after tearing down half the track ... after years all parties found some sort of solution and the track was rebuilt with the old layout in place - the parts of the track that weren't torn down got a refurb so they matched the "new" parts...

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:38 am 
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I hate to say anything nice about a corporate behemoth that's out to promote itself and is certainly not a charity: but think what Red Bull have done for motorsport over the last decade and more. Where would the WRC be right now without them? Or motocross. How many rally drivers, car racers and motorcyclists have they funded (sod their young driver programme, I'm talking about the hundreds of people they sponsor at every level)? How much more competetive have they made F1? How many people have seen and heard an F1 car for the only time in their life thanks to the RB road show thing? As I say, I'm not bigging them up for charity work, they do all this for mainly selfish reasons I'm sure. But they'd have a much safer, more predictable and cheaper promotional programme if they spent more traditionally. I don't believe they'd be doing this if Mateschitz weren't a fan.

I'm not assuming they'd take a hit if this A1 Ring GP goes ahead, but you have to think there's a reason they haven't tried to launch it already, on their own terms and in their own timeframe. Surely it would be, at least, a financial risk and a major headache.

Maybe I'm being too generous.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:12 pm 
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It's a shame that they never got the goahead to expand it as the planned larger track looked pretty damn good.

There's a decent video here as well, showing the opening of it as the Red Bull Ring, with interviews with the Horner/Vettel/Webber/Newey/Marko and a few shots from around the track: http://www.redbullracing.com/cs/Satelli ... 3016873746

Whilst I'm by no means a Redbull fan, it's certainly very capable of hosting F1 and they seem to have done a good job of restoring it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:00 pm 
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But this will be a weak track for Redbull


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Would be nice to see it back yes. I haven't seen many races there though.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:04 pm 
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When did they change the name?

Hell, it sounds so corporate now.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Always thought it was a horrid little track.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Always thought it was a horrid little track.

What about the never built / proposed one? It's a shame that one was never built as it looks a hell of a lot better:

Current Track:
Image

Proposed Track:
Image

From the sounds of it, the reason it was never made was because of local politics dictating that it would have a negative impact (1 day a year) on the neighbours...not that there were many.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:56 pm 
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I would love to see them race there again... great track!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:46 pm 
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RickM wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Always thought it was a horrid little track.

What about the never built / proposed one? It's a shame that one was never built as it looks a hell of a lot better:

Current Track:
Image

Proposed Track:
Image

From the sounds of it, the reason it was never made was because of local politics dictating that it would have a negative impact (1 day a year) on the neighbours...not that there were many.

Aside from that middle bit looking oddly like a penis it looks a bit better.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
I hate to say anything nice about a corporate behemoth that's out to promote itself and is certainly not a charity: but think what Red Bull have done for motorsport over the last decade and more. Where would the WRC be right now without them? Or motocross. How many rally drivers, car racers and motorcyclists have they funded (sod their young driver programme, I'm talking about the hundreds of people they sponsor at every level)? How much more competetive have they made F1? How many people have seen and heard an F1 car for the only time in their life thanks to the RB road show thing? As I say, I'm not bigging them up for charity work, they do all this for mainly selfish reasons I'm sure. But they'd have a much safer, more predictable and cheaper promotional programme if they spent more traditionally. I don't believe they'd be doing this if Mateschitz weren't a fan.

I'm not assuming they'd take a hit if this A1 Ring GP goes ahead, but you have to think there's a reason they haven't tried to launch it already, on their own terms and in their own timeframe. Surely it would be, at least, a financial risk and a major headache.

Maybe I'm being too generous.

Haven't they just done major renovations there? Perhaps they weren't ready until now and this IS on their own terms? Couple of DTM races weren't a bad audition.

Its a bit weird staging a round at a facility that shares a name with a team. "Red Bull Racing wins at Red Bull Ring" sounds...not right. "McLaren wins at Red Bull Ring" sounds...not right.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Always thought it was a horrid little track.



Me, too. Not much to it IMO, but for some reason people want to go back to it. Reminds me of Imola in that regard. Awful circuit yet people want F1 to go back.


I'd like the track more if it had incorporated more of the Osterreichring than it eventually did.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:55 am 
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phyz wrote:
When did they change the name?

Hell, it sounds so corporate now.

A1-Ring was also a sponsored name, A1 is an Austrian mobile telecom company.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Bringing in Austria as a new "European Grand Prix" or whatever other name they go with does make more sense to me.

It may not be the track that Istanbul Park is, which is definitely a great track, but a lousy event, and the calender already has enough races playing to completely empty grandstands.

I popped in a DVD of the 2011 Turkish GP last nite when I was stuck in a hotel room with not much around. It did have some very entertaining action, and some great passes from P2 down through about P12... but the primary grandstand across from the paddock was probably 70% full with a few pretty noticeable empty areas, and some decent crowds in the General Ad. areas around T1-T3.

But there were multiple stands that didn't have a single person in it, including the entire section of stands in the DRS zone, which is where some of the best battles were taking place.

The only way to go back to Turkey IMO is with a completely different plan (likely free tickets for about 80-90% of the seating if enough sponsors will put in enough money to make there a point for either a promoter or Turkish government to spend any money on it.)

It might not make a difference with simulators/video games, but having bodies in the seats is part of a successful GP and not just the action on the track. I couldn't help noticing during the shots of drivers dicing for position come out of the DRS zone into the final corners, the background of completely empty grandstands and think what a shame that no one is there to watch.

Maybe another well-supported race in Europe next year, might register somewhere in Bernie's thoughts when he sees those crowds and then also sees the vacant stands for several of the Asian stops. Maybe it will slow the abandonment of F1's base for 'new markets.' At least one can hope, as it just doesn't seem like a proper F1 season without the remaining European locations and a few that have been abandoned.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Well, I see, the former A1 Ring isn't in the picture for 2013.

That's a shame, shame about the trouble of making room for a 20th race, moving the Goodwood event, to be left with 19 races in the end. But I guess the lure of putting on an exciting race for all those empty seats to watch at Istanbul Park was worth the trouble. It's a shame for Bernie that that Turkish government wasn't willing to write a $25-mil check for nothing in return but the chance to compete with Korea and Bahrain for the honor of the sparse-est crowds.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Bernie really doesn't cater to the F1 fans much does he? Poor A1 ring... could've added back to the European season quite nicely. Is France still a possible, or is that a big no-no as well?
A french races makes sense with 3 french drivers on the grid!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:54 pm 
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I dont really like the track, seems a bit narrow and featurless although the scenery is amazing. There are so many great tracks around but we can only get so many a year which is really annoying. I wouldnt mind Turkey because it is unique and then theres Estoril and Imola with so much history or Portimao which looks amazing. It would be a bit silly with all the tracks asking for a race yet we end up with only 19 out of 20. Sort it out Bernie!


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