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I love your blustering return to the topic 10 mins later for a second bite of the cherry, "And another thing!!!" This remarkable certainty that Hulkenberg would have won, McLaren finish exactly second and third, Ferrari exactly fourth an.... zzzzz is all baseless speculation to suit your argument. Racing is unpredictable, anything can happen, nothing's a certainty, look at clown pants in China 2007, who'd have thought it.

Long and short of it, yes, Hulkenbergs fault, banzai move that could end in tears, but when you see who is defending, well, it almost becomes a foregone conclusion doesn't it. I've a feeling several other drivers would have escaped that one, Kimi springs to mind as a candidate, he never seems to tangle with anyone (and is 3rd in the WDC) still, that's speculation so is going down a blind alley.

Sometimes I'm convinced it's Hamilton's gung ho bash crash attitude that attracts the diehard tinfoil manboy/fanboy clique, perhaps it's seen as "badass" or well 'ard, I remember after his bumper car bashfest Monaco 2011 he defiately said, "I will never stop racing the way I do, it’s the way I do it. That’s what got me here, it's the way I am!" Proper rabble rousing stuff lol.

Anyway, we don't agree on Brazil, I'm fine with that.

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Nonsense, nobody would have escaped that move. Hülkenberg made a mistake to overtake there, he lost the control of his car. Nobody could have done anything against it, only Hülkenberg, not overtaking at this moment.
This is ridiculous to blame Hamilton for others mistakes. Lewis left more than enough space and even backed of, but he could not dissappear, nobody could have

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

So it seems that JB also accepts that LH can extract some 'extra' performance from a bad car? To be fair, and without knocking Jens, he should know, as he hasn't normally been able to do that!
I think this shows my point has been 'demonstrated' as far as it can - in that there are drivers who are able to be a couple of tenths faster than others in the same car. The point was based on Hamilton going to Merc, and perhaps being able to get further up the order in that car - but it is equally valid for SV and FA against their teammates - and it is these differences that make the difference between the top drivers and the average drivers.
Nevertheless, only time will tell - roll on March 2013!
http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/833843 ... se-Rosberg

Inappropriate post removed.

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Obviously you did not watch any races. And certainly you did not watch the Brazil race.
Useless to discuss with you.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

You have to factor in that Red Bull's closest challenger next year is liable to be Mclaren, the strongest driver at McLaren will probably be Button, how close has Button come these past 3 seasons to beating Vettel?

Meanwhile Ferrari are still playing catch up to Red Bull, Mercedes are playing catch up to just about everyone, Lotus fell away somewhat last season.

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Thats debatable he suffered a similar amount of duff calls by his team early in 2011 as this year the only difference being how he reacted to it, reacting better to his misfortunes would not have enabled him to catch the long gone Vettel in the WDC race

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I agree with that the McLaren was fast enough to beat the Red Bull but i fail to see how Hamilton had any responsibility in the team messing up

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Saying Vettel is the luckiest is absurd. He just driven better than what Lewis could ever match. Alonso is probably the most luckiest driver on the grid by the way he wins through other people's misfortunes and his teammates. Hamilton can continue to jelly on.

I would say lewis matched him pretty well in austin. Somehow vettle in the fastest car couldn't hold on to the lead.

Except the Red bull wasn't the fastest car that day.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

That is the most ridiculous statement that I have ever heard. Watch the recording of the race and the number of times they commented on the difference in speeds between the 2 cars. On that long and slightly bendy "straight", Hamilton's McLaren clocked a max speed of 313 Kph as opposed to 295 kph of Vettel's RB8. That sort of flat speed differential cannot be made up by the slight downforce advantage that the Red Bull had.

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Vettel / Raikkonen / Button

The straight & DRS zone was not long enough to get a significant advantage from more top speed
RBR at the corners superior due to more downforce, therfeore they were pretty evenly matched. Hamilton needed a slight mistake from Vettel & a backmarker to overtake, and for the rest of the race remaing vettel was very close to Hamilton, Hamilton was busy to stay out of DRS all laps remaining.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

The fact Lewis was able to build a gap so Vettel couldn't use DRS almost immediately and Button went from 16th on the first lap to what 5th? Says to me the McLaren was pretty strong around Austin.

Remember due to tyres etc the days of drivers building big gaps are over. It's about building enough to nurse it home.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

RBR had such a superior car that McLaren claimed to have the best car. Once it came from MW and then Sam Michael. Why don't you chaps tell McLaren they were wrong? Wait, may be they both report to you at McLaren... do they?

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My Top 5 drivers of all times:
1) Prost/ Schumacher
3) Fangio
4) Lauda
5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"

I thought that in F1 downforce is basically king, Red Bull have normally the best downforce at the cost of top speed, something they seem quite happy to design into the car

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McLaren always seem keen to inform who wants to know just how good the car is, the drivers less so it seems

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No probably not when the team lets you down, the car breaks down and other drivers crash into you

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It seems the stewards didn't agree with you either

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You obviously didn't watch the race... The only way Hamilton could have yielded more (as opposed to what he did, which was leave the door massively open) and avoided the accident was if he slammed on the brakes which is not a viable solution. Even Kimi would have been taken out in this case.

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"Braver than a bullfighter with no knickers on!"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

doesn't MW always praise his drivers right after the race... even in 2011 he was pretty positive about Lewis. What more do you want from a team principal? Should the team ignore they had a great car, like when they had one this year? Of course they didn't capitalize on the car, and they admitted as much. Again, what else do you want McLaren to do?

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My Top 5 drivers of all times:
1) Prost/ Schumacher
3) Fangio
4) Lauda
5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"

Thats the most ridiculous reply i have ever heard zekenwolf (ha ha). The cars were very evenly matched. Anybody thats driven a race car will tell you how difficult it is to pass a car that can match your lap times.When you are sitting in the other cars dirty air you need the other driver to make a mistake. Think of how long it took hamilton to pulll off that pass. How long did he have to sit behind vettle waiting for that one moment. If you have ever driven a race car you would know how difficult it is to keep your focus for that length of time waiting for that one moment. Vettel was able to get off that corner leading on to the straightaway better and could get a gap so that the mclaren speed down the straight was nullified.

I know how hard it is to give hamilton any credit but in that case it was a perfect example of two really good drivers dueling it out in a race long battle. Just my opinion but i don't think that either driver had a superior car, it was just a battle between two very good drivers.

So they were evenly matched? Neither driver had a superior car?

What happened to Vettel in the faster car?



Surely if one car is faster they are not evenly matched and by default one has to be in a superior car ?

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

No i meant the drivers are less likely to praise the car rather than the team themselves, is it true then that MW and SM said that the McLaren was the best car in Austin despite Hamilton barely beating Vettel?

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Thats the best you can come up with johnston. Pretty weak.

Yes! They both claimed McLaren have a better overall package (and if i remember correctly, pace too). Well, one of the comments came right after losing to RBR in 4 straight races... i'm not so sure of the timeline entirely, but you could check the homepage here for older stories and sure as heck you'd find them.

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My Top 5 drivers of all times:
1) Prost/ Schumacher
3) Fangio
4) Lauda
5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"

You're the one that changed tune not me. I merely pointed it out.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

i chose to watch the races & live timing, there you see very well how big the difference is, at Us GP it was nearly nothing. Vettel & Hamilton were lapping similar fast, the RBR gained time in the corners while McL gained on the straights , in the end they were equal.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Well i guess it shows an emphasis of how they put the car before the driver and how they managed to lose a driver of Lewis's Hamilton calibre, i don't see other teams with the need to big the car as much as McLaren do

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Macca and Red Bull were more or less equal around Austin. Neither could pass the other without assistance and that is what we saw. Hamilton got by on an opportunity and Vettel never got a similar opportunity to try to get back.

We saw this is Spain 2010 also - remember, Hamilton behind for 30+ laps. That time he got no opportunity and Vettel kept the lead. The Macca may have been a tad quicker in Spain, but not enough to make any practical difference in the circumstances.

That's racing.

As for the Article and Lewis saying Vettel looks unbeatable; well it is no different than what he was saying during the year. It is true that among top drivers, the driver with the best car should win. Lewis should have added the bit about top drivers, but quite frankly, everyone knows that Vettel is a top driver (unless they are kidding themselves), so it could go without saying - by Lewis anyway, because he has acknowledged that Vettel is a top driver in the past.

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