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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:50 am 
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I wonder why... he almost win a wdc in a Jordan in 99', won a few podiums in 00' and a podium in 03'. Sounds to me like the mark of a wdc champ but why didn't he get selected by any of the top teams? I understand why Williams wouldn't wanna bring him up again, but what about Ferrari and McLaren? Why didn't Ferrari picked him instead of Rubens..

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:54 am 
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for one thing i don't think him and schumi were in good terms personally. both germans but not got on well. stems from pre-F1 as far as i know.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:06 am 
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BlackSG5 wrote:
for one thing i don't think him and schumi were in good terms personally. both germans but not got on well. stems from pre-F1 as far as i know.


Schuey stole his girlfriend & married her.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:44 am 
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Frentzen was given his chance in a top team and blew it. Its very rare to get one chance almost unheard of to get two.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:58 am 
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BlackSG5 wrote:
for one thing i don't think him and schumi were in good terms personally. both germans but not got on well. stems from pre-F1 as far as i know.


You should ask HH Frentzen's girlfriend.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:34 am 
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aryaputhra wrote:
]
You should ask HH Frentzen's girlfriend.


ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Schuey stole his girlfriend & married her.


I didn't know that. I assume since two people have mentioned it that it is probably true (first time I saw it I assumed it was a joke). That's pretty interesting actually.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:41 am 
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Indeed, Schumacher married Corinna, who was previously dating HHF.

However, from what I remember reading, they started dating a few months after her breakup with HHF.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:12 am 
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HHF had a chance with Williams in 1997 and never challenged Jacques for the title.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:16 am 
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Because he blew it with Williams in 1997/98. By the end of 1999 McLaren were still happy with DC and Mika, Ferrari wanted Rubens after his impressive year with Stewart, Williams was a no go for obvious reasons and Benetton were on a decline anyway. Frentzen had nowhere to go. Given Jordan's form in 99 he probably didn't want to leave anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:13 am 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
HHF had a chance with Williams in 1997 and never challenged Jacques for the title.


Considering the number of mistakes Villeneuve made throughout the season and the points he threw away, Frentzen's season in a similar car was miserable despite him being the more experienced F1 driver. It's often been mentioned that Frentzen needed a more supportive role from the team in order to have confidence in himself and that's why he failed at Williams but succeeded at Jordan, but I don't know how much truth there's in it and if so how much effect did it have.

Also, I remember Villeneuve publicly complaining throughout the '97 season that Patrick Head didn't allow his drivers to set up the car the way they wanted, but had his own view about the setups that overruled the drivers' wishes. That handicap probably didn't help Frentzen either.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:27 am 
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I never understood why Jordan sacked him halfway through 2001. He must have pissed EJ off something terrible.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:49 am 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
I never understood why Jordan sacked him halfway through 2001. He must have pissed EJ off something terrible.


There was a rumour HHF was taking the piss out of EJs wigs and got caught or to his face after an argument or something.

Would be kinda funny if it was true.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:04 am 
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Some guy said HHF was not as hardworking as Schumi even though he had the speed?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:12 am 
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Ev0lutionz wrote:
Some guy said HHF was not as hardworking as Schumi even though he had the speed?


"Some guy?"

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:14 pm 
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RaisinChips wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
HHF had a chance with Williams in 1997 and never challenged Jacques for the title.


Considering the number of mistakes Villeneuve made throughout the season and the points he threw away, Frentzen's season in a similar car was miserable despite him being the more experienced F1 driver. It's often been mentioned that Frentzen needed a more supportive role from the team in order to have confidence in himself and that's why he failed at Williams but succeeded at Jordan, but I don't know how much truth there's in it and if so how much effect did it have.

Also, I remember Villeneuve publicly complaining throughout the '97 season that Patrick Head didn't allow his drivers to set up the car the way they wanted, but had his own view about the setups that overruled the drivers' wishes. That handicap probably didn't help Frentzen either.

That was EJ's theory too. He reckoned he extracted the best from HHF because of the nature of the team and the way he worked with his drivers.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Good topic IMO he falls into the category of driver like alesi,couldhard,panis,trulli all very underrated drivers but can perform in right car and circumstance. In 1998 after 12 months settle time he was quicker than Jacques and showed his raw pace in the Jordan aswel if he kept his cool and Jordan didn't oust him at end of 2001 his career might have been more promising the best things I remember of Heinz was his terrific pole lap at nurburgring in 1999 and his pole lap in Monaco 1997 even tho schumi out foxed em all he knew the rain was comin to ruin Heinz and Williams day getting ready for the 1:58 sec gap at the finish to rubens


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:32 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
HHF had a chance with Williams in 1997 and never challenged Jacques for the title.


Considering the number of mistakes Villeneuve made throughout the season and the points he threw away, Frentzen's season in a similar car was miserable despite him being the more experienced F1 driver. It's often been mentioned that Frentzen needed a more supportive role from the team in order to have confidence in himself and that's why he failed at Williams but succeeded at Jordan, but I don't know how much truth there's in it and if so how much effect did it have.

Also, I remember Villeneuve publicly complaining throughout the '97 season that Patrick Head didn't allow his drivers to set up the car the way they wanted, but had his own view about the setups that overruled the drivers' wishes. That handicap probably didn't help Frentzen either.

That was EJ's theory too. He reckoned he extracted the best from HHF because of the nature of the team and the way he worked with his drivers.

I've also heard from people here that Jaques was playing mind game with HHF and that also probably made his season worse though I can't be sure though. It seems to me clear now as to why he didn't get picked by top teams. Sad really, :|

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Kolby wrote:
mcdo wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
HHF had a chance with Williams in 1997 and never challenged Jacques for the title.


Considering the number of mistakes Villeneuve made throughout the season and the points he threw away, Frentzen's season in a similar car was miserable despite him being the more experienced F1 driver. It's often been mentioned that Frentzen needed a more supportive role from the team in order to have confidence in himself and that's why he failed at Williams but succeeded at Jordan, but I don't know how much truth there's in it and if so how much effect did it have.

Also, I remember Villeneuve publicly complaining throughout the '97 season that Patrick Head didn't allow his drivers to set up the car the way they wanted, but had his own view about the setups that overruled the drivers' wishes. That handicap probably didn't help Frentzen either.

That was EJ's theory too. He reckoned he extracted the best from HHF because of the nature of the team and the way he worked with his drivers.

I've also heard from people here that Jaques was playing mind game with HHF and that also probably made his season worse though I can't be sure though. It seems to me clear now as to why he didn't get picked by top teams. Sad really, :|


Yes Jacques did play mind games but if you're a top tier driver you'll still perform to your ability

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:10 pm 
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ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
BlackSG5 wrote:
for one thing i don't think him and schumi were in good terms personally. both germans but not got on well. stems from pre-F1 as far as i know.


Schuey stole his girlfriend & married her.

Stole's a bit of a strong word, but yeah, she broke up with HHF and started dating Schu a bit after :P

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:54 pm 
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I think he was booted from Jordan because his sponsers did not pay up



Though I think there was something a out hhf not being payed by ej


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:27 pm 
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I was a Heinz-Harald fan from his Sauber days, in a kinda 'barrack for the underdog' way.. but he did show a lot of pace and promise in his Jordan years.

I will always remember him flipping the bird in Adelaide and Murray saying "that's not very nice Heinz-Harald"

His performance when he joined Williams was puzzling in 97, then in 98 the car was using a morris miner engine.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:58 am 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
HHF had a chance with Williams in 1997 and never challenged Jacques for the title.

Yeah I remember that. The Germans got all excited at the possibility of HHF v MS and it was a damp squib as HHF didn't measure up.

schumi7 wrote:
Stole's a bit of a strong word, but yeah, she broke up with HHF and started dating Schu a bit after :P


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:33 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:

Image


hmmm... maybe a 3-way that gone bad? :]


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:03 am 
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Anupam wrote:
Indeed, Schumacher married Corinna, who was previously dating HHF.

However, from what I remember reading, they started dating a few months after her breakup with HHF.

May be, but I recall reading in an F1 yearbook (96 or 97) under the heading 'don't mention' for each driver, HHF's was "losing his girlfriend Corrina to Michael Schumacher". It could have been an interesting fact, but read like he was still very bitter about it.

As for his ability, well he was part of the Hill-Villeneuve-Frentzen-Ralf chain that drove in cars that flattered them. At Williams both Hill and Villneuve won WDCs when the car was easily the best. At Jordan, Hill partnered Frentzen and Ralf. All didn't shine much elsewhere.

I remember at Sauber he was highly rated, ala Heidfeld, but never truly lived up to the promise.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:17 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
As for his ability, well he was part of the Hill-Villeneuve-Frentzen-Ralf chain that drove in cars that flattered them. At Williams both Hill and Villneuve won WDCs when the car was easily the best. At Jordan, Hill partnered Frentzen and Ralf. All didn't shine much elsewhere.


Hill did some pretty good stuff in the Arrows. I'll never forget Hungary '97. How angry I was when that car broke down.
In '98 he did pretty well compared to his teammate in the Jordan.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:58 am 
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I think he was mentally not that strong. The mind games of JV at Williams made him look pretty pale during those 2 seasons. Rubens had a a bit of the same once he was teamed up with Schumi at Ferrari. I guess that gf thing also played a part. Even if they already broke up before Corinna went to date Schumi, it still sounds that the latter went for someone more successful than HHF. And that's a bitter pill to swallow.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:19 am 
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mds wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
As for his ability, well he was part of the Hill-Villeneuve-Frentzen-Ralf chain that drove in cars that flattered them. At Williams both Hill and Villneuve won WDCs when the car was easily the best. At Jordan, Hill partnered Frentzen and Ralf. All didn't shine much elsewhere.


Hill did some pretty good stuff in the Arrows. I'll never forget Hungary '97. How angry I was when that car broke down.
In '98 he did pretty well compared to his teammate in the Jordan.

Don't get me wrong, all three are good drivers, it's just questionable if they'd have won races or WDCs in less competitive cars.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am 
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BlackSG5 wrote:
Formula1Fan. wrote:

Image


hmmm... maybe a 3-way that gone bad? :]


possibly! :nod:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:47 am 
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I thought I remember reading somewhere that HHF was the "golden boy" of German auto racers a d he was supposed to be what MS turned out to be. Somewhere along the line MS got a drive over him or did something to beat him and the rest is history.

Maybe somebody else knows the story.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:39 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
Anupam wrote:
Indeed, Schumacher married Corinna, who was previously dating HHF.

However, from what I remember reading, they started dating a few months after her breakup with HHF.

May be, but I recall reading in an F1 yearbook (96 or 97) under the heading 'don't mention' for each driver, HHF's was "losing his girlfriend Corrina to Michael Schumacher". It could have been an interesting fact, but read like he was still very bitter about it.

As for his ability, well he was part of the Hill-Villeneuve-Frentzen-Ralf chain that drove in cars that flattered them. At Williams both Hill and Villneuve won WDCs when the car was easily the best. At Jordan, Hill partnered Frentzen and Ralf. All didn't shine much elsewhere.

I remember at Sauber he was highly rated, ala Heidfeld, but never truly lived up to the promise.


Well is it true that HHF did not get the Williams to his liking in 97 and 98? At least that is what I have heard in the past, not trying to create excuses for Frentzen. The reason I think they were able to thrive at Williams is because both drivers were on quite equal terms and maybe the development of the cars would give the drivers to give the most out of their own individual packages. Jordan was a nice place to thrive and develop.

Who knows? I wish we did know more about what went on behind the scenes during this time because HHF was not the most mentally strong driver. As quick as the man was. It gives an idea of what the right environment can do to a driver. Williams is not known for being supportive of drivers completely and maybe it did not fit HHF. Jordan could have been more "hands on" with their drivers to ensure both can perform at their best. Look at 1999 for Frentzen from a 2nd driver to a WDC contender... I think it depends on the team for the driver.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:23 am 
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The rumor I heard - and I stress it was a rumor - for the sudden Jordan departure goes along the lines of HHF and EJ had an argument. HHF wanted the team to move in a certain direction, which involved spending money. EJ didn't want to spend the cash and told HHF that his sponsors needed to pay more. HHF and his sponsors refused, EJ threatened to stop paying HHF, HHF threatened to take away his sponsorship and EJ fired him for 'poor performance'. All quite nasty which didn't get settled until it went to court.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:31 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
mds wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
As for his ability, well he was part of the Hill-Villeneuve-Frentzen-Ralf chain that drove in cars that flattered them. At Williams both Hill and Villneuve won WDCs when the car was easily the best. At Jordan, Hill partnered Frentzen and Ralf. All didn't shine much elsewhere.


Hill did some pretty good stuff in the Arrows. I'll never forget Hungary '97. How angry I was when that car broke down.
In '98 he did pretty well compared to his teammate in the Jordan.

Don't get me wrong, all three are good drivers, it's just questionable if they'd have won races or WDCs in less competitive cars.



Just wondering if you saw the 1997 season as it happened?

Hill in the arrows went from a car that nearly failed to qualify in the first race to nearly winning in Hungary and should have had pole in Jerez but for a spinner on the last corner bringing out the yellow flags meaning Damon had to lift and lost pole by thousandths of a second!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:27 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:

Image


is that a genuine photo or was it photo shopped together?

if it is genuine, Schumi's head looks really small!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:20 am 
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It is just the perspective. Schumy is sitting further back in the room, hence his head looks smaller. Note Corinna's head is quite gigantic compared to the other two - worry not, she is just sitting closer to the camera.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:18 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N-4zrk390 (0:30)
I under stand perspective, but still I think either Schumacher has a small head or Frentzen has a big one!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I think its probaby been pointed out already that Frentzen got his big chance with Williams when they had the best car, it could well be that he became a victim of the mind games of Villenueve but he was a disappointment similar to Kovallainen at McLaren

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:17 pm 
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vince14 wrote:
The rumor I heard - and I stress it was a rumor - for the sudden Jordan departure goes along the lines of HHF and EJ had an argument. HHF wanted the team to move in a certain direction, which involved spending money. EJ didn't want to spend the cash and told HHF that his sponsors needed to pay more. HHF and his sponsors refused, EJ threatened to stop paying HHF, HHF threatened to take away his sponsorship and EJ fired him for 'poor performance'. All quite nasty which didn't get settled until it went to court.



I heard something about this too but it came out of Trulli's mouth:

" The money was there. Where did it all go"

The other rumor was with Honda. The only way Jordan was going to keep the Honda engines was to give Sato a seat. So HHF was the odd man out.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Either way, HHF was superb and simply couldn't turn the corner (no pun intended).

for me he is the best driver to have never met his full potential and is why I brought his name up in this thread a few months back: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4638


The guy had loads of talent and for me he is the best driver to have never met his full potential and is why I brought his name up in this thread a few months back: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4638

At times he did superb things in the cars he drove but lacked consistency in just about every way and simply never performed to the level he should/could have. Such a cool name too. LOL

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