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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:27 am 
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Hey people,

I was wondering what if the cars run low downforce by default and then use the DRS mechanism to do the opposite of what is done now and add extra downforce through the fast corners. This could aid a chasing car to get right up to the lead car but the overtake would eventually have to be made without the same ease or comfort that a driver has had with the DRS this year. Technically it would be the opposite of 'drag reduction' and would be optimal for use in fast 3rd gear corners.

Is this just another passing bedtime thought or could this actually be implemented? Thoughts?

More alternatives and improvements are also welcome.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:52 am 
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The current system gives slightly better acceleration to the following car and a better top end, hence why the overtake occurs toward the end of the straight when the top speed advantage is in effect.

I think a system like the one you suggest might actually give a bigger advantage than the current one.

The car that is following would have a higher exit speed from the bend, once both cars had their wings "open" again they might accelerate at the same speed but the following car would have started that acceleration from a higher base line speed at the start of the straight and would therefore always be travelling faster. The overtake would (have to) be done more quickly as a result.

In other words the advantage is carried in full for the entire length of the straight rather than gradually being felt as you travel along the straight.

I may be wrong, but I think this is correct as on most bends that exit on to long straights exit speed is more important than entry speed as the time lost in brakeing is easily outweighed by the gain from superior speed on the straight.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:52 am 
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I agree cjf1.

But DRS is supposed to negate the aero disadvantage and give an attacking driver the opportunity to manufacture a pass. Not guarantee it. My personal belief is that if the attacking driver gets close enough, then uses DRS, he should (if he does everything right) arrive at the next braking point side by side with the defending car. Then, in the braking zone, may the best man win. In Valencia they got it right, and it transformed the race from the usual borefest to an exciting race.

There's also the safety aspect to consider, where during the race it's used only in a straight line, and relatively safe. But if you start altering the wings in a corner, it has the potential of being unsafe.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:27 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
I agree cjf1.

But DRS is supposed to negate the aero disadvantage and give an attacking driver the opportunity to manufacture a pass. Not guarantee it. My personal belief is that if the attacking driver gets close enough, then uses DRS, he should (if he does everything right) arrive at the next braking point side by side with the defending car. Then, in the braking zone, may the best man win. In Valencia they got it right, and it transformed the race from the usual borefest to an exciting race.

There's also the safety aspect to consider, where during the race it's used only in a straight line, and relatively safe. But if you start altering the wings in a corner, it has the potential of being unsafe.


Since we are talking about increasing downforce through the corners, the car would be more stable. But I'm not sure how a car with higher downforce would behave in dirty air through corners. I'm thinking it will decrease the instability, I could be wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:44 am 
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cjf1 wrote:
The current system gives slightly better acceleration to the following car and a better top end, hence why the overtake occurs toward the end of the straight when the top speed advantage is in effect.

I think a system like the one you suggest might actually give a bigger advantage than the current one.

The car that is following would have a higher exit speed from the bend, once both cars had their wings "open" again they might accelerate at the same speed but the following car would have started that acceleration from a higher base line speed at the start of the straight and would therefore always be travelling faster. The overtake would (have to) be done more quickly as a result.

In other words the advantage is carried in full for the entire length of the straight rather than gradually being felt as you travel along the straight.

I may be wrong, but I think this is correct as on most bends that exit on to long straights exit speed is more important than entry speed as the time lost in brakeing is easily outweighed by the gain from superior speed on the straight.



True, but the bigger advantage you are talking about applies only if it is used on corners that lead to straights. For example, in Albert Park if the system is used through turn 11 and 12 the car behind will have more advantage with the proposed system than the DRS, but if it is used elsewhere, like turn 5, 6 and 7, it gives the driver an opportunity to pass at turn 9 which is unconventional and requires more from the driver

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:53 am 
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ManojHS wrote:
Since we are talking about increasing downforce through the corners, the car would be more stable.


But could you imagine the system malfunctioning and drivers carrying way too much speed into a corner and not getting the downforce they expect? There are places where that could provoke quite the disaster.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:47 am 
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I think the biggest issue with this type of system is the balance of the car. With the current DRS because it’s in a straight line the balance doesn’t really matter, but with your proposed type of 'new DRS' it would mean more down force at the rear in the corner, effecting the balance of the car and would most likely inhibit the driver more than benefit. If they however had two DRS movable parts, a flap on the rear and a front wing angle adjuster then the balance could be preserved and might work.
However I think the current DRS would be better overall as in the age of aero it gives the more powerful engines of the merc’s/Ferraris time to shine when a less powerful engine’d car try’s to drs them.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:57 pm 
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mds wrote:
ManojHS wrote:
Since we are talking about increasing downforce through the corners, the car would be more stable.


But could you imagine the system malfunctioning and drivers carrying way too much speed into a corner and not getting the downforce they expect? There are places where that could provoke quite the disaster.

That's the first issue I thought of too. I think any device which alters downforce levels at the push of a button can be dangerous, but current DRS is the safest, as it's more likely to malfunction with high downforce than low downforce.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:10 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
mds wrote:
ManojHS wrote:
Since we are talking about increasing downforce through the corners, the car would be more stable.


But could you imagine the system malfunctioning and drivers carrying way too much speed into a corner and not getting the downforce they expect? There are places where that could provoke quite the disaster.

That's the first issue I thought of too. I think any device which alters downforce levels at the push of a button can be dangerous, but current DRS is the safest, as it's more likely to malfunction with high downforce than low downforce.


Not to sure about this as we see lots of drivers charging into corners far to quick and locking up all the wheels as they suddenly realise they are going to quick/dont have the grip from the tyres and usualy they just go off into a football pitch sized run off area and carry on. So I think the current DRS system is prob more dangerous as seen with schumy when his was stuck open, completly un controlable in bends.

But As I said both wings need to be altered otherwise the car would handle like a dog in the corner and the most dangerous thing about this idea is if it was only on the rear wing that gets altered, then the driver would have to now guess how the car is is going to behave in terms of understear in the corner.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Considering how DRS is currently disabled (during the race) in cornering areas and when it rains a bit, I'd be suprised if having a DRS which you have to switch off would be allowed, due to safety issues. Also, can you imagine having to press a button at every corner to get the rear downforce you need to avoid spinning off into the cars around you? That first corner would be a guaranteed smash-fest at every race. I think the "press a button for a boost" thing works well because the safety issues are mostly managed.

How about this... considering how they are able to track if you are within 1 second of the car in front, how about every time you pass a timing point and you are outside 1 second, it gives you another second of KERS for free, enabling cars to catch others and have a go. Once you get there, it's down to skill and judgement to make the pass.


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