planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:31 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:13 am
Posts: 101
One of the most debated topics in this forum is in relation to Vettel and how much of his dominance is the car and how much is his ability. Most would probably say there is a bit of both at play; how much? nobody really knows.

I can't read into how Vettel thinks, but if YOU were in his position what would you do?

1) Would you see it as foolish to even consider leaving the best team of recent years where there is potential for more championships? Would you rather POTENTIALLY break Schumacher's records (not saying it will happen) and even possibly finish up at RBR?

2) Or would you have a desire to prove that you are the best by changing to say, a Ferrari or so, that have only achieved the ultimate success once in the past 8 seasons? If he could achieve an era even half as good as Schumi at Ferrari or another team in this position, he would be universally regarded as one of the greatest ever.


This is not a debate about Vettel/Newey/RBR.
This is not even a discussion about what Vettel should do.
This is a thread about what YOU would do (your personal preference) in his position.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:57 am
Posts: 7
Win 7 championship in RBR and then go to Ferrari to win the 8th title and become the most successful and regarded formula one driver ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:05 pm
Posts: 2973
Certainly at this point I would stay at Red Bull. He's got it made, why jeopardise it?

_________________
We want heroes, but there are few, mainly it's cars - Pedro De La Rosa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 104
Well honestly not much difference to tell you the truth and it's hard for me to say this as Iam an Aussie and watch him kill mark in a much more superior car with prolly 70-30 percent of team in my favor. The thing I hate is his attitude but with all his success at an early age it would be impossible not to get a big head, as he is quicker than the best every time (again to car) hopefully his attitude will mature over time when he duznt win and sook and blame the car or some one else, he gets over that he has me as a fan as Ive seen vids of him away from circuit and he seems quite a funny and smart guy but behind the wheel he is a spoilt little brat. As for mark he tells it like it is all real Aussies blokes do and besides i work in construction alongside Sam michaels brother who operates cranes ( far cry from his bro) and he even told me mark duznt take crap.
He even gave some nice authentic Williams f1 team shirts to that Sam actualy wore instead of market knock offs, from the time Sam and mark were at Williams. He told me a story his brother told him, that mark bagged him and team to press over poor car performance and Sam was upset, as he believed interview would be blown out of proportion like most drivers and media do only to read it to find it was exactly what was going on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 3029
^You didn't answer the question, and did exactly what the OP asked you not to do :lol:


I would stay at RBR as long as we remain a competitive family.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
I would (and I think Vettel will too), remain at Red Bull till the end of the contract - 2014 season. Towards the end of that year, I'd be looking for opportunities elesewhere - Ferrari most likely.

_________________
Vettel / Raikkonen / Button


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:29 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1592
I'd stay at RBR. Until they stop being competitive.

_________________
Lewis Hamilton Fan's Mood Race by Race: :( 8) 8) 8) 8) :evil: :-(( :) :D :proud: ;) x( 8) 8) :uhoh: 8) 8) :) :smug:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 4911
The goal is to win. I would stay and wouldn't care less about what's being said.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:07 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 8927
It's not just the car - the team works well around him, too. IMO he has no reason to leave just to appease the opinions of other people he's never even met. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. He should stay as long as he's happy there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:13 am
Posts: 101
Having started this thread, I guess I'm not so much thinking the move as a way to appease opinions, in as much as to achieve something which would be a greater challenge. This would especially be significant if Fernando fails to deliver Ferrari a championship and Vettel does.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:59 pm
Posts: 48
It's difficult to say what you would do in his position as the factors that would determine the reasons for Vettel staying, would be different to mine.

For example, I would like to be filthy rich but have some degree of success also (i.e. a few WDCs).

Money doesn't seem to be a factor for Vettel, and I suspect he's not too bothered what the media or viewing public think of him as a driver.

I do suspect however that he would like to earn the respect of his peers in the paddock.

But I digress...

I would probably see out a few more seasons with RBR, get a few more WDCs under my belt, hope that my salary with RBR would be supplemented by sponsorship, and then move to one of the bigger paying constructors towards the end of my career.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:59 pm
Posts: 48
It's difficult to say what you would do in his position as the factors that would determine the reasons for Vettel staying, would be different to mine.

For example, I would like to be filthy rich but have some degree of success also (i.e. a few WDCs).

Money doesn't seem to be a factor for Vettel, and I suspect he's not too bothered what the media or viewing public think of him as a driver.

I do suspect however that he would like to earn the respect of his peers in the paddock.

But I digress...

I would probably see out a few more seasons with RBR, get a few more WDCs under my belt, hope that my salary with RBR would be supplemented by sponsorship, and then move to one of the bigger paying constructors towards the end of my career.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:00 pm
Posts: 2986
Why go to a losing team, whoever who wants to challenge can come and he can battle it out.

he has nothing to prove he is a 3x WDC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3995
There's a saying, if it works don't fix. Why would he go away?

I'd stay and laugh all the way to the bank.

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 4013
Location: Belgium
pavilion103 wrote:
if YOU were in his position what would you do?

1) Would you see it as foolish to even consider leaving the best team of recent years where there is potential for more championships? Would you rather POTENTIALLY break Schumacher's records (not saying it will happen) and even possibly finish up at RBR?

2) Or would you have a desire to prove that you are the best by changing to say, a Ferrari or so, that have only achieved the ultimate success once in the past 8 seasons? If he could achieve an era even half as good as Schumi at Ferrari or another team in this position, he would be universally regarded as one of the greatest ever.

1) I would not see it as foolish to even consider leaving the best team of recent years, simply because that period will come to an end. Depending on how my contract is worded - and I would desperately need a specialist on that subject to even understand, let alone influence - I would definitely consider every other team that might be on the move forward. At this moment that would include McLaren and Ferrari, with Mercedes, Sauber and Williams as potential movers. This means I have 6 teams to consider! Enough to make your head spin.

Would I consider leaving, with the aim of winning more championships? Of course. The age in which a race win was considered something special by fans, let alone the public at large, is long gone. Honour (let alone racing honours) is now a dirty word, so only the numbers count. Just as they do on my bank account.
That also answers whether I would "risk" possibly finishing up at RBR with a record 7 titles; yes I would. (Here, as you will have understood, there is a conflict between Fiki Vettel and Sebastian Vettel. I somehow doubt Sebastian would have the courage to point out there was "a problem" with Schumacher's official title count.) Anyway, it means "I" am halfway there already, so why not stay?

2) What is the logic of switching to Ferrari, a team that showed three years in a row they are incapable of developing a car to the point it becomes a serial winner? Would doing that, and winning a series of titles mean I am the greatest there has ever been? Of course not, it would just mean they have somehow become capable of producing a winning car. Being the cold, calculating Vettel that I am, the so-called "magic" of the Italian team means nothing to me; I leave it to Bernie and Luca to keep milking that old cow.
As for another team, I keep scanning what's happening at them, but McLaren seems the team most likely to succeed. I'll just keep reading the Planet F1 forum to stay up to date. ;)

3) Aha! :D The problem therefore is, if I perceive another team to be truly on the move to overtaking Red Bull as the one at the point of technical development, courtesy of the genius of Maestro Newey, then I would have to start considering a move.
Now, according to some sources, my team is the richest one on the grid. Which sponsor could I ask for enough money to buy out a potential stand-in-the-way, as Santander did? Red Bull? I think not. Or could they perhaps sell off Toro Rosso and buy Ferrari? They are a bit red already...

No, I think I'll stay at Red Bull for now. Fangio switched teams mid-season, and was considered the greatest ever. Some might think it special to win 7 titles with one team. And it would be.

I could win in an HRT! :lol: Provided they would still be around...

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 5106
I would leave in 2014 for a new challenge. The Red Bull is an excellent car but it could be argued that without Vettel It would have only had 1 tittle in the last few years. I would partner Alonso at Ferrari if he matched Fernando then that would do more for his reputation than another 3 tittles in a Red Bull.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:49 pm
Posts: 1791
Keep winning and keep swimming pool off the haters. Thats what I will do.

Besides - who s to say that if he wins with a non-dominant car , people will not brand it dominant anyways.

After all we have seen how the Toro Rosso went from a backmarker in 2008 to a "good car" and then to the "best car to have on the day" in a space of 2 years in people's perceptions :LOL:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
pavilion103 wrote:
Having started this thread, I guess I'm not so much thinking the move as a way to appease opinions, in as much as to achieve something which would be a greater challenge. This would especially be significant if Fernando fails to deliver Ferrari a championship and Vettel does.


Agreed and IMO that is precisely what will happen.

_________________
Vettel / Raikkonen / Button


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:51 am
Posts: 1049
Leave after two or three more years


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 4013
Location: Belgium
pavilion103 wrote:
Having started this thread, I guess I'm not so much thinking the move as a way to appease opinions, in as much as to achieve something which would be a greater challenge. This would especially be significant if Fernando fails to deliver Ferrari a championship and Vettel does.
That reasoning only goes so far. Prost came incredibly close, but fell foul of Ferrari's inflated sense of itself.
If Vettel were to win for them and Alonso weren't, it would not mean a thing to most knowledgeable fans, though lots of nonsense would be spouted by the team.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:21 am
Posts: 389
Inappropriate post removed.

_________________
I know what I'm talking about.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 4911
Inappropriate post removed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: Wrexham, UK
If I ws in Vettel's position (I'm assuming I am me, just I got 3 world titles instead of him, its a nice feeling), I would take my engineers to Williams, take a couple of years to build a team around me, and become Ben Williams, Williams World Champion. I hope. Though if Williams continues to flounder, I'd try and maintain my reputation with sterling efforts and show my passion, and try to get a switch to Ferrari/McLaren to have another title bid. I would try and partner Hulkenberg as I like the guy and think we'd get on well and develop a good partnership that would aid me in my Championship bid and set him up for future Championships after I retire.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:44 pm
Posts: 432
I would handicap Newey. But i'm a Ferrari fan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 632
Location: London
Honestly, I'd milk the current situation for all it's worth. I wouldn't give a damn about people saying it's only the car as I sat there polishing my latest trophy :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:55 am
Posts: 212
Armchair Expert wrote:
Inappropriate post removed.


You forgot about messing with car #2's clutch so the starts are terrible.

And @mds. Don't bother bringing Alonso into this. Don't stoop to his level. You're better than that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:19 am
Posts: 506
Who would want to give up the best toys and the best team?
He shouldn't care about what the fans of other drivers or so called experts think he should do, we haven't had a team combined driver in this flow since Schumachers 2000 serie, why give that up?

Nah keep whipping them and see them get grumpier and grumpier as his records pile up :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 4911
JerCotter7 wrote:
And @mds. Don't bother bringing Alonso into this. Don't stoop to his level. You're better than that.


While I do hugely respect Alonso for his driving and think he has performed the best of them all this year, I do believe he won't want Vettel next to him (or Hamilton, now that he knows Hamilton is a great driver unlike a few years ago where Hamilton was a debuting rookie). And Massa is used to Alonso's advantage in his bid for the WDC.

Didn't mean to take away from him, I just found Armchair Expert's post a bit ironic. That, and maybe I wanted to provoke an answer for once, as he seems to ignore all arguments that contradict what he's saying.


Last edited by mds on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:48 pm
Posts: 1411
I'd stAy there and win a few more, then go to Ferrari and try to win some there to prove I'm the best and can win in not the best car. That's of course if Ferrari is not the best when that time comes lol


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 29
i'd be banging every hot chick that would like to ride my coattails


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 2151
Vettel does not care that some idiots on the Internet don't think he is a great driver after becoming only the third driver in history, and the youngest, to win three consecutive titles.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 3029
Staying with RBR isn't relinquishing some challenge. It will only get harder every year to keep winning. He doesn't need to leave to be challenged.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 5065
Location: Ireland
I would continue on and keep everything as it is. The success will come to an end eventually, so I would try and make the most of it while I had it.

When the Red Bull powerhouse starts to lose its footing I would jump ship, look for a new team - a new feeling & new experience. I would refresh my image in red or grey overalls and gain a new legion of fans, particularly if I chose the red overalls.

And I have a strong suspicion this is exactly what is on Vettel's mind right now.

_________________
"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."


#14 for '14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
mcdo wrote:
When the Red Bull powerhouse starts to lose its footing I would jump ship, look for a new team - a new feeling & new experience. I would refresh my image in red or grey overalls and gain a new legion of fans, particularly if I chose the red overalls.


Sounds the safest option but timing is often a problem with such a plan. If and when RBR start to slide, there may not be a ready seat available with a top team for Vettel to move into. Also, it will add ammunition to those claiming that it is all car and not him.

IMO, best to mave while still on top with RBR to a team where he knows he can do just as well. IMO Vettel can do that with Ferrari or McLaren as things stand. Maybe Mercedes in a few years time.

_________________
Vettel / Raikkonen / Button


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:49 pm
Posts: 1791
Alternatively , I would start a twitter feed and start tweeting David and Goliath anecdotes in short hand !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:51 am
Posts: 1049
ashley313 wrote:
Staying with RBR isn't relinquishing some challenge. It will only get harder every year to keep winning. He doesn't need to leave to be challenged.

No, but leaving and still winning would be a bigger challenge.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:55 pm
Posts: 87
Stay put and keep winning, then if he does end up in a duff car, he'll show why he's the best.
anyway he has had his say on the 'general concensus' relating to him only winning in the best car "Best drivers get the best cars" and his overtaking ability which he said critisism of it was 'comedy'
Hopefully he'll be really honest about things and just tell everyone 'look at my record, match it or keep quiet'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:39 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 8927
I see no pros in leaving and no cons in staying. His team are proven winners and support him extremely well. Where would he go to? Ferrari? They haven't built a great car for several years now, although good teamwork. McLaren? Great car but terrible strategy and reliability errors. Lotus? No dependable consistency or finances to speak of. Mercedes? Awful car for the last few years, especially considering their finances. All the other teams are much further down the field and would likely be considered a backwards step

A great driver can't do much with an OK car. Look at Alonso. Competitive drivers want to win, and Vettel's best chance of winning is at Red Bull. It's a no-brainer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
Zoue wrote:
A great driver can't do much with an OK car. Look at Alonso. Competitive drivers want to win, and Vettel's best chance of winning is at Red Bull. It's a no-brainer.


I see your point but I still feel that Alonso could have won more with that Ferrari. I know it appears like he is dragging everything out of the car but there is something between them - the car and the driver - that is not matching-up 100%. Both are very good on their own but together somehow it is not working as well as the combo should have on paper.

One cannot deny that another leading driver - like Vettel or Hamilton - could get better results than alonso in the Ferrari simply because the car could suit their driving style better.

_________________
Vettel / Raikkonen / Button


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 3029
F1yer wrote:
Alternatively , I would start a twitter feed and start tweeting David and Goliath anecdotes in short hand !

:lol: :thumbup:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: beanchimp, Bing [Bot], f1madman, Guia, HamsterHuey, inky38, Paolo_Lasardi, RafaelS, shoot999, simonbalaam, Zoue and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group