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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:56 am 
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Reason I ask is his poor starts every single race, and when he got pole in Korea this year I said to my partner " I bet he gets another crap start and vettel will lead outta turn one". Well how close my prediction was wasn't funny, that's cuz it's so frigging obvious what's gonna happen wen he has pole. Me as a fellow Aussie love him to death but this is mightily frustrating when you get up all hrs of the morning to see this, just glad got another Aussie to draw my attention away wen it's gets bad, as I also love watching ricciardo mature into what I believe will be a fast consistent driver


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:18 am 
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Starts are crap.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:35 am 
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His starts are crap.

I like Webber, seems like about the easiest to relate to on the grid IMO, maybe it was the long wait for his 1st win, but has struck me as more of a 'regular' guy than most on the grid.

But he's his own worst enemy with his starts. I read his comments this week about competing for the WDC next year, but that's never going to happen unless he makes quantum leaps with his starts. At the start of the 2011 season it was all supposed to be about Red Bull's problems with KERS, but that issue came and went and the starts have still been poor.

In the whole discussion about Webber/Massa 'teammate' in Brazil, I looked at the screen shots someone posted showing how Webber's start did Vettel no favors. The argument some put forward was that Webber went out of his way not to help his teammate... yet, the start was so bad, that I couldn't help but wonder if it wasn't another case of Webber's bad starts.

I really don't feel like there is much point in debating the issue of team orders at Red Bull until Webber shows he can consistently make good starts, and not almost always give up at least 1 spot or more by the 1st turn at so many races. At this point, Webber's starts make Vettel the team's best candidate for starting on the front row and converting that into maximum points. Every driver gets schooled by someone else along the way, as well as returning the favor, but Mark's bad starts seem so regular with different drivers randomly getting the jump on him that it can't be a fluke.

Unfortunately, at his age, I don't know if its likely he'll transform that weakness if he hasn't already, which is a shame because of all the drivers on the grid currently, I think I'd most like to see him claim a WDC.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:45 am 
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It's the settings the team chooses 90% of the time that are the problem.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:06 am 
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darksides wrote:
It's the settings the team chooses 90% of the time that are the problem.


Yup, they obviously have no clue and want Mark to fail.

...
Seriously now, are you kidding?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:56 am 
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Mark said himself in an interview he chooses the setting and in Korea overcompensated for the lack of grip Friday and by Sunday the track had evolved, as for teams messing him up i don't really remember him being a decent starter even pre red bull days so i just don't think he has the best starts, he is a solid f1 driver but not the overall level that the elite few are in afraid


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:38 am 
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When he starts far back he usually has a good strategy in which he wins many places. If he starts in the front he often has a bad start. It's only when he has the occasional good start he is in for a strong finishing position. He often screws a good result because of his weak starts.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:57 am 
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Amon wrote:
When he starts far back he usually has a good strategy in which he wins many places. If he starts in the front he often has a bad start.


Which suggests it's nerves. Didn't Mark recently admit he's not brilliant at coping with pressure?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:30 am 
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His starts were always crap or average and that dates back to Jaguar days. I doubt it's because team is messing with him, but at times you have to wonder about it, when for example last year he had mostly terrible starts until Vettel clinched his title. May be coincidence, may be not, but again in 2012 it was mixed bag of performance.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:33 am 
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His starts are crap, if he's at the front.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:36 pm 
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His starts are crap


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:56 pm 
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I thought this question was answered when Webber himself took the blame for bad starts. Before the start, drivers choose what setting they want for the clutch.

Also, I think Webber focus more on trying to cover a driver than actually lunching the car. Pressure


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Cozz wrote:
I thought this question was answered when Webber himself took the blame for bad starts. Before the start, drivers choose what setting they want for the clutch.

Also, I think Webber focus more on trying to cover a driver than actually lunching the car. Pressure

He didn't though, not wholly and that latter in bold isn't true.

If you chaps want to actually look at what goes in to starting an F1 car you'll find it goes well beyond the driver, and those in the thread putting it on Webber are speaking out of personal bias without researching it.

RBR have a particularly complex starting system.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Cozz wrote:
I thought this question was answered when Webber himself took the blame for bad starts. Before the start, drivers choose what setting they want for the clutch.

Also, I think Webber focus more on trying to cover a driver than actually lunching the car. Pressure

He didn't though, not wholly and that latter in bold isn't true.

If you chaps want to actually look at what goes in to starting an F1 car you'll find it goes well beyond the driver, and those in the thread putting it on Webber are speaking out of personal bias without researching it.

RBR have a particularly complex starting system.


Two clutches, red lights go off, release one, the other controls the wheel spin? No?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Cozz wrote:
I thought this question was answered when Webber himself took the blame for bad starts. Before the start, drivers choose what setting they want for the clutch.

Also, I think Webber focus more on trying to cover a driver than actually lunching the car. Pressure

He didn't though, not wholly and that latter in bold isn't true.

If you chaps want to actually look at what goes in to starting an F1 car you'll find it goes well beyond the driver, and those in the thread putting it on Webber are speaking out of personal bias without researching it.

RBR have a particularly complex starting system.


Another plaudit for Vettel then as he usually has a very good start using this 'complex starting system'.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Webber is happy in the team, he knows he's in the best team he can be in and gets a fair shot at the title but also knows he's just not as good as Vettel over the full season, he's to humble. If he could see all the theories and lies people say about RedBull he would be disappointed some fans resort to such low measures and give the good Webber fans a bad name.

Another part of Webber are his starts, he's done it at every team in F1, so please no theories.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Chriso wrote:
Reason I ask is his poor starts every single race, and when he got pole in Korea this year I said to my partner " I bet he gets another crap start and vettel will lead outta turn one". Well how close my prediction was wasn't funny, that's cuz it's so frigging obvious what's gonna happen wen he has pole. Me as a fellow Aussie love him to death but this is mightily frustrating when you get up all hrs of the morning to see this, just glad got another Aussie to draw my attention away wen it's gets bad, as I also love watching ricciardo mature into what I believe will be a fast consistent driver

Mark doesn't always have bad starts like you say, there's no need to generalise. His start in Korea specifically wasn't even that bad. It wasn't all that good, but Vettel definitely got a goody.

Ev0lutionz wrote:
Two clutches, red lights go off, release one, the other controls the wheel spin? No?

Even when trying to explain how simplistic you think it is, you speak too simplistically. If your explanation were the case, then you did a horrible job at explaining how the 'wheel spin' clutch operates. Do you know what a bite point is?

nate wrote:
Amon wrote:
When he starts far back he usually has a good strategy in which he wins many places. If he starts in the front he often has a bad start.


Which suggests it's nerves. Didn't Mark recently admit he's not brilliant at coping with pressure?

Toward the end of 2010, in an interview filled with many left, right and center questions, he was asked how he rates himself under pressure from 1 to 10. He gave himself a 6. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Did you guys even read Pilbeam's (Webber's engineer) interview with Davidson on Sky before jumping to conclusions?

It's a bit of both, the team and Webber himself. Sometimes himself, sometimes just the team's settings and sometimes a combination. Pilbeam says his reaction time and initial getaway are fine, pretty much the same as Vettel. It is the second part of the start phase is where Webber is poorer, doesn't help when he has KERs problems, when the traction of the wheels begin as the initial grip is harder to tell for Webber. Pilbeam also acknowledges Webber has had problems with starts since the Jag days.

Each start is specific and we don't always know each race whether it is down to him or the team, or both. Just seems we like to blame the driver the whole time since people make it out to be such a simplistic launch sequence.


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