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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:54 pm 
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They sound way better than the whining in here.

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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:56 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
They sound way better than the whining in here.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
They sound way better than the whining in here.



Ouch !


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:36 pm 
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No, they really, really don't. They sound like R/C toy cars.
I was going to shut up about it, but I can't see my opinion being passed off as whining either.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:11 am 
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The transmission shifting is louder than the motor :lol:

Who's going to have Tyco as a sponsor.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:34 am 
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flyer wrote:
How's it a green sport when they have to manufacture, transport, store, prepare, & maintain twice as many cars and spare parts? All manufacturing consumes energy and creates pollution.

They probably can't change batteries because they're so huge, same thing in a road E-car. So what I was getting at before is this Formula E will constantly remind everyone of the main reason NOT to get an electric car -- you can't simply stop and fill 'er up, you have to be without car while it recharges.

It will never replace fuel-powered cars. How can you drive a long trip in an E-car?

I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:40 am 
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specdecible wrote:

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


hahahaha


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:28 am 
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specdecible wrote:
flyer wrote:
How's it a green sport when they have to manufacture, transport, store, prepare, & maintain twice as many cars and spare parts? All manufacturing consumes energy and creates pollution.

They probably can't change batteries because they're so huge, same thing in a road E-car. So what I was getting at before is this Formula E will constantly remind everyone of the main reason NOT to get an electric car -- you can't simply stop and fill 'er up, you have to be without car while it recharges.

It will never replace fuel-powered cars. How can you drive a long trip in an E-car?

I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


Probably. But in a few years they were faster than horses and could carry more people and luggage. The benefit was there.
Give me an electric car that (A) provides decent range (talking at least 400km+) and (B) fast charging time (< 30min) at (C) a decent price and I'll start considering it. I don't like to burn that kind of money (seriously, these things are expensive) on cars that can only be used as secondary car for city usage only.

Unfortunately, I don't think a car that combines A+B+C will be there in the near future.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:54 am 
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Actually it might make travel more enjoyable if they could be plugged into a station for an hour while you sit and have a long lunch in a nice restaurant. Because we HAVE to stop for an hour we won't just rush through a fast-food "meal" to get back on the road ASAP. But if it takes longer or we have to stop more than we have to eat, or they rape us on the charging, then it will get old fast. Of course they might just jack up the price of gasoline (uh, gasohol) so we have to go electric.

But where's all that power going to come from -- they'll have to build a lot more nuclear reactors, and the more there are the more accidents there will be; there's always a next Chernobyl or Three Mile Island, look at Fukushima, who'd have believed that after Chernobyl there would ever be THREE reactors blowing up in one incident? It will happen again, and the more electric cars there are the more reactors there will have to be, and the more radioactivity in the environment.

Politically, if electric does proliferate, they'll have to start letting more countries have nuclear programs. Iran. Iraq. Korea.

Wonder what all the Middle Eastern countries will think if Formula E wants to race there. Seems contrary to their interests.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:27 am 
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Around 2 years ago I had an electric scooter for a while. Apart from being short in the grunt department it was OK. I did though find I had to be constantly watching pedestrians as they were likely to just cross infront of me, even when they had seen me. I suspect it was the lack of a sound associated with a vehicle, and maybe they thought I was not moving.

It was more like a cordless drill sort of sound :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:13 am 
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mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
flyer wrote:
How's it a green sport when they have to manufacture, transport, store, prepare, & maintain twice as many cars and spare parts? All manufacturing consumes energy and creates pollution.

They probably can't change batteries because they're so huge, same thing in a road E-car. So what I was getting at before is this Formula E will constantly remind everyone of the main reason NOT to get an electric car -- you can't simply stop and fill 'er up, you have to be without car while it recharges.

It will never replace fuel-powered cars. How can you drive a long trip in an E-car?

I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


Probably. But in a few years they were faster than horses and could carry more people and luggage. The benefit was there.
Give me an electric car that (A) provides decent range (talking at least 400km+) and (B) fast charging time (< 30min) at (C) a decent price and I'll start considering it. I don't like to burn that kind of money (seriously, these things are expensive) on cars that can only be used as secondary car for city usage only.

Unfortunately, I don't think a car that combines A+B+C will be there in the near future.

We'll I don't want to get into this whole debate as this is a thread about Formula E, but what I will say is that such vehicles can be built in the not too distant future. It's however those that have the capability won't as it's not as profitable for manufactures when compared to petrol or hydrogen powered cars.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:18 am 
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specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
flyer wrote:
How's it a green sport when they have to manufacture, transport, store, prepare, & maintain twice as many cars and spare parts? All manufacturing consumes energy and creates pollution.

They probably can't change batteries because they're so huge, same thing in a road E-car. So what I was getting at before is this Formula E will constantly remind everyone of the main reason NOT to get an electric car -- you can't simply stop and fill 'er up, you have to be without car while it recharges.

It will never replace fuel-powered cars. How can you drive a long trip in an E-car?

I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


Probably. But in a few years they were faster than horses and could carry more people and luggage. The benefit was there.
Give me an electric car that (A) provides decent range (talking at least 400km+) and (B) fast charging time (< 30min) at (C) a decent price and I'll start considering it. I don't like to burn that kind of money (seriously, these things are expensive) on cars that can only be used as secondary car for city usage only.

Unfortunately, I don't think a car that combines A+B+C will be there in the near future.

We'll I don't want to get into this whole debate as this is a thread about Formula E, but what I will say is that such vehicles can be built in the not too distant future. It's however those that have the capability won't as it's not as profitable for manufactures when compared to petrol or hydrogen powered cars.


I don't know if they can - battery technology is still not good enough. There has been interesting research going in the past few years with promising results, but they haven't been put into real practice at full scale.

I would guess we're at least 10 years away from such technology becoming available and affordable.

Just look at this Formula E concept. I suppose they use the latest and greatest electric technology, but they still need car changes for a normal length race. They would have to make enormous progress over the coming years to have full-length races on one charge and even then we're likely talking about expensive technology.

(there, I got it back to Formula E ;) )

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:26 am 
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mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
flyer wrote:
How's it a green sport when they have to manufacture, transport, store, prepare, & maintain twice as many cars and spare parts? All manufacturing consumes energy and creates pollution.

They probably can't change batteries because they're so huge, same thing in a road E-car. So what I was getting at before is this Formula E will constantly remind everyone of the main reason NOT to get an electric car -- you can't simply stop and fill 'er up, you have to be without car while it recharges.

It will never replace fuel-powered cars. How can you drive a long trip in an E-car?

I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


Probably. But in a few years they were faster than horses and could carry more people and luggage. The benefit was there.
Give me an electric car that (A) provides decent range (talking at least 400km+) and (B) fast charging time (< 30min) at (C) a decent price and I'll start considering it. I don't like to burn that kind of money (seriously, these things are expensive) on cars that can only be used as secondary car for city usage only.

Unfortunately, I don't think a car that combines A+B+C will be there in the near future.

We'll I don't want to get into this whole debate as this is a thread about Formula E, but what I will say is that such vehicles can be built in the not too distant future. It's however those that have the capability won't as it's not as profitable for manufactures when compared to petrol or hydrogen powered cars.


I don't know if they can - battery technology is still not good enough. There has been interesting research going in the past few years with promising results, but they haven't been put into real practice at full scale.

I would guess we're at least 10 years away from such technology becoming available and affordable.

Just look at this Formula E concept. I suppose they use the latest and greatest electric technology, but they still need car changes for a normal length race. They would have to make enormous progress over the coming years to have full-length races on one charge and even then we're likely talking about expensive technology.

(there, I got it back to Formula E ;) )

That's the thing though, what it needs is R&D and at the moment who is competing to fund it? Formula E is a good chance to explore the true capabilities of electric powered cars, because at the moment it's only really privateers.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:32 am 
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specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


Probably. But in a few years they were faster than horses and could carry more people and luggage. The benefit was there.
Give me an electric car that (A) provides decent range (talking at least 400km+) and (B) fast charging time (< 30min) at (C) a decent price and I'll start considering it. I don't like to burn that kind of money (seriously, these things are expensive) on cars that can only be used as secondary car for city usage only.

Unfortunately, I don't think a car that combines A+B+C will be there in the near future.

We'll I don't want to get into this whole debate as this is a thread about Formula E, but what I will say is that such vehicles can be built in the not too distant future. It's however those that have the capability won't as it's not as profitable for manufactures when compared to petrol or hydrogen powered cars.


I don't know if they can - battery technology is still not good enough. There has been interesting research going in the past few years with promising results, but they haven't been put into real practice at full scale.

I would guess we're at least 10 years away from such technology becoming available and affordable.

Just look at this Formula E concept. I suppose they use the latest and greatest electric technology, but they still need car changes for a normal length race. They would have to make enormous progress over the coming years to have full-length races on one charge and even then we're likely talking about expensive technology.

(there, I got it back to Formula E ;) )

That's the thing though, what it needs is R&D and at the moment who is competing to fund it? Formula E is a good chance to explore the true capabilities of electric powered cars, because at the moment it's only really privateers.


I think battery technology research (which is the biggest part of the story, in my view) is being done on a pretty broad scale.
But I'll agree this is a good incentive for even more R&D.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:36 am 
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If from next year F1 cars are going to have 4MJ storage, that in its self is going to need a hell of an advance on current commonly available technology. The development of other areas like storage wire will no doubt also expand, so anextra option to test them will probably be welcome


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:43 am 
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I dont expect Formula E to be like a huge hit or anything, among the motorsport fans. But I'm really hoping big on it. I want to see the world shift to Electric automotive technology from what we have right now and if this Formula E can do well (i.e. get enough funding and keep going and possibly growing for a few yrs) then I think it will help push the development of electric engines and vehicles, even further.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:52 am 
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an interesting side-note here: i do remember that teams stated they were having issues with their KERS-units being allowed on airplanes due to the battery and that they don't know how this will extend to next years ERS units...

now about those 4 cars per team being essentially 50% battery (or so) - how will those be shipped?

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:15 pm 
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I'll be honest. I will watch it and give it a go. I can only assume that it won't run at the same time as F1, so great.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Williams have signed a partnership with Formula E: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130610/f1/130619981.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Jo_ wrote:
Williams have signed a partnership with Formula E: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130610/f1/130619981.


Do you think the Duracell bunny will enter :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Neutrality wrote:
Jo_ wrote:
Williams have signed a partnership with Formula E: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130610/f1/130619981.


Do you think the Duracell bunny will enter :lol:

No, but the Energizer Bunny might. I think that has a more modern and fresh feel about it and would therefore be more compatible with Formula E. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Jo_ wrote:
Neutrality wrote:
Jo_ wrote:
Williams have signed a partnership with Formula E: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130610/f1/130619981.


Do you think the Duracell bunny will enter :lol:

No, but the Energizer Bunny might. I think that has a more modern and fresh feel about it and would therefore be more compatible with Formula E. ;)


Yeah but I think that change made them sound more like a sex toy :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Formula E is like that new kid on the block that everyone will try to pick on. I'll try to watch it. If there's exciting racing and good venues then good.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:29 pm 
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beyamei wrote:
Formula E is like that new kid on the block that everyone will try to pick on. I'll try to watch it. If there's exciting racing and good venues then good.

In my case it's just a bit of light-hearted banter. I'm interested in Formula E and I think it should be given a chance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Jo_ wrote:
beyamei wrote:
Formula E is like that new kid on the block that everyone will try to pick on. I'll try to watch it. If there's exciting racing and good venues then good.

In my case it's just a bit of light-hearted banter. I'm interested in Formula E and I think it should be given a chance.


It will be interesting to see if any tech transfers from E to F1. I think we would quite quickly see more teams if it does.....free testing?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:10 pm 
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flyer wrote:
But where's all that power going to come from -- they'll have to build a lot more nuclear reactors, and the more there are the more accidents there will be; there's always a next Chernobyl or Three Mile Island, look at Fukushima, who'd have believed that after Chernobyl there would ever be THREE reactors blowing up in one incident? It will happen again, and the more electric cars there are the more reactors there will have to be, and the more radioactivity in the environment.

Politically, if electric does proliferate, they'll have to start letting more countries have nuclear programs. Iran. Iraq. Korea.


The problem is that you are assuming two things:

1. All power has to come from nuclear reactors.

2. Mining for oil (and the consequences of oil extraction) is ecollogically acceptable, we don't need any electric cars.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:54 pm 
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runningman67 wrote:
I'll be honest. I will watch it and give it a go. I can only assume that it won't run at the same time as F1, so great.

Pretty sure that I read recently that'll be run in the off season.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:04 pm 
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specdecible wrote:
"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


You convinced me. I'll get myself a horse.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:53 am 
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Formula E teams will be able to run any tyres they choose but will be required to only run official "E 1 "
batteries that will be constantly tweaked by the official battery manufacturer over the season so they won't hold a charge for the whole race . This means an uncertain 2-3-4 stop strategy will be assured for the teams will delight and thrill the fans just like in F 1


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:59 am 
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Another motorsport formula to watch? I would certainly watch it (or at least give it a try).
As long as the racing is good, I tend to enjoy watching all sorts of racing formula.

By what I have seen from the video footage, the cars seem to have the speed and the performance to put on a good show.
Sure the sound is not to my taste, but it seems to sound alright when the engine reaches high rpm. So I am willing to live with that.
Of course its not Formula 1, and it doesn't have to be. No one expects this to replace Formula 1.
But I don't see what people are so adverse to seeing a new racing formula entering the calender.

I honestly hope the series succeeds.
I hope that the formula for Formula E will be flexible enough to allow for a development war (particularly with the engines), perhaps this is what is needed to get manufacturers interested in the sport.
Where I feel that Formula 1 has become a bit stagnant in the side of development (an over-emphasis on aerodynamics rather than engineering), perhaps this new formula will see a lot more creative ingenuity than other racing formulas, which for a fan of the technical side of motorsport, is what I would be interesting in following.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:12 pm 
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rvirax wrote:
Another motorsport formula to watch? I would certainly watch it (or at least give it a try).
As long as the racing is good, I tend to enjoy watching all sorts of racing formula.

By what I have seen from the video footage, the cars seem to have the speed and the performance to put on a good show.
Sure the sound is not to my taste, but it seems to sound alright when the engine reaches high rpm. So I am willing to live with that.
Of course its not Formula 1, and it doesn't have to be. No one expects this to replace Formula 1.
But I don't see what people are so adverse to seeing a new racing formula entering the calender.

I honestly hope the series succeeds.
I hope that the formula for Formula E will be flexible enough to allow for a development war (particularly with the engines), perhaps this is what is needed to get manufacturers interested in the sport.
Where I feel that Formula 1 has become a bit stagnant in the side of development (an over-emphasis on aerodynamics rather than engineering), perhaps this new formula will see a lot more creative ingenuity than other racing formulas, which for a fan of the technical side of motorsport, is what I would be interesting in following.

My thoughts exactly :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:03 am 
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Andretti Motorsport in joining in.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/07/andretti-becomes-latest-team-to-enter-formula-e-series/

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:25 am 
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I intend on following it. People that want electric cars now that can do 400km+ in one hit and recharge in less than 30 minutes are living in a dream world. If you're driving 400km+ in one hit, you should probably rest for a few hours before going on. At the moment they're city cars - I don't think anybody would recommend crossing Russia in one. But is that reason to dismiss them completely? Things improve; when motor vehicles were first invented they barely moved at walking speed and spewed out enough carbon emissions to burn a hole in the ozone layer the size of a small country. But what do we have now? The combustion engine improve dramatically in its first decade or two of being in the mainstream and I fully expect the electric engine to do the same. Cars became popular (See: Model T Ford) and then demand for greater development improved. The same will happen with electric vehicles as soon as they get manufactured at a competitive price.

Alas, I digress.

I hope they get some half-decent drivers in the field. GP3+, F3+, FR2.0+ would be nice. What it needs is a driver respected by the greater motorsport community. Possibly some endurance drivers in the off-season could give it a shot, or even lower-team F1 drivers. I'd like to say the top drivers we have here, but we all know they'd not lower themselves to anything but F1.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:05 am 
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Don´t have the time to read the whole thread now, but want to point out one thing people usually don´t take into consideration....


FormulaE is the electric alternative to F3, not F1.

Same speed than F3, same power (more or less).... do not compare it with F1 because it will be ridicoulous, they don´t pretend it


I like this idea a lot, my only concern is the car switching, I´d have prefered a battery change.....


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:23 am 
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Isn't it all on Street Curcuits? This worries me more than anything.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:30 am 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
Isn't it all on Street Curcuits? This worries me more than anything.

Yes they are, but I see why that should be worrying. It means that people don't have to travel far to see the races so you're more likely to attract casual viewers. It also demonstrates the lower noise factor which is a selling point for having EV's in cities.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:37 am 
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Toby. wrote:
I intend on following it. People that want electric cars now that can do 400km+ in one hit and recharge in less than 30 minutes are living in a dream world. If you're driving 400km+ in one hit, you should probably rest for a few hours before going on. At the moment they're city cars - I don't think anybody would recommend crossing Russia in one. But is that reason to dismiss them completely? Things improve; when motor vehicles were first invented they barely moved at walking speed and spewed out enough carbon emissions to burn a hole in the ozone layer the size of a small country. But what do we have now? The combustion engine improve dramatically in its first decade or two of being in the mainstream and I fully expect the electric engine to do the same. Cars became popular (See: Model T Ford) and then demand for greater development improved. The same will happen with electric vehicles as soon as they get manufactured at a competitive price.

Alas, I digress.

I hope they get some half-decent drivers in the field. GP3+, F3+, FR2.0+ would be nice. What it needs is a driver respected by the greater motorsport community. Possibly some endurance drivers in the off-season could give it a shot, or even lower-team F1 drivers. I'd like to say the top drivers we have here, but we all know they'd not lower themselves to anything but F1.

I have no idea who their regular drivers will be, but in the comments of the James Allen story I linked someone asked the same question and James responded that Andretti plans to have their IRL drivers do guest drives in the Formula E series.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:43 am 
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mds wrote:
specdecible wrote:
flyer wrote:
How's it a green sport when they have to manufacture, transport, store, prepare, & maintain twice as many cars and spare parts? All manufacturing consumes energy and creates pollution.

They probably can't change batteries because they're so huge, same thing in a road E-car. So what I was getting at before is this Formula E will constantly remind everyone of the main reason NOT to get an electric car -- you can't simply stop and fill 'er up, you have to be without car while it recharges.

It will never replace fuel-powered cars. How can you drive a long trip in an E-car?

I wonder if that was a similar opinion when cars where first being produced.

"They're slow, noisy, can only be used on flat surfaces and you have to fill it up constantly with this horrible black liquid. No thanks, I'll stick with my horse."


Probably. But in a few years they were faster than horses and could carry more people and luggage. The benefit was there.
Give me an electric car that (A) provides decent range (talking at least 400km+) and (B) fast charging time (< 30min) at (C) a decent price and I'll start considering it. I don't like to burn that kind of money (seriously, these things are expensive) on cars that can only be used as secondary car for city usage only.

Unfortunately, I don't think a car that combines A+B+C will be there in the near future.


I think you answered the question youreself:
"Probably. But in a few years..."


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:47 am 
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I like the idea of a Formula E, but in order to drive innovation I think they really need to open it up. Set the safety standards, and some constraints on the size & weight of the vehicle, but then give then free range to innovate all of the power train systems. It would lead to competition and would drive the rate of progress of the tech. Get investment with some big cash prizes as incentive, it could be a real winner.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:13 pm 
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stringy wrote:
I like the idea of a Formula E, but in order to drive innovation I think they really need to open it up. Set the safety standards, and some constraints on the size & weight of the vehicle, but then give then free range to innovate all of the power train systems. It would lead to competition and would drive the rate of progress of the tech. Get investment with some big cash prizes as incentive, it could be a real winner.


I agree. If they open up the regs on the design/power of the vehicles then ultimately it could become quicker than F1.

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