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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:23 pm 
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I ask this as Ferrari seems to be where seb will end up but they won't let Alonso go, so how will they work as Alonso demanded priority over Lewis in 2007 as a double world champ, and was clearly shoo k by the young Englishman.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Chriso wrote:
I ask this as Ferrari seems to be where seb will end up but they won't let Alonso go, so how will they work as Alonso demanded priority over Lewis in 2007 as a double world champ, and was clearly shoo k by the young Englishman.



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:39 pm 
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ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Chriso wrote:
I ask this as Ferrari seems to be where seb will end up but they won't let Alonso go, so how will they work as Alonso demanded priority over Lewis in 2007 as a double world champ, and was clearly shoo k by the young Englishman.



http://www.ruralramblings.com/wp-conten ... -fight.jpg

That sums it up lol


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:23 am 
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If the Ferrari is absolute dross, you have the 2 best drivers to be able to get the most points out of it.
If it's miles ahead of anything, you can have them taking points off eachother and win the titles
If its somewhere in between, maybe not.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:33 am 
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Depends on one's definition of "work". IMO, Alonso & Vettel at Ferrari will result on one of them - more likely Vettel IMO - ending up WDC and the team getting WCC. To that extent it will work very well.

But there will be constant rivalry and friction between the teammates, perhaps even words exchanged. It depends on how well Ferrari can handle it as a team. If they try to favour one driver over another, the whole set-up will fall apart sooner than later. On the other hand, if they manage the combo with firm diplomacy and let them race each other fair & square, it will work.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:53 am 
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See the thing is it won't work even if they can race fairly, Hamilton and Alonso had fair treatment IMO from day dot in 2007 and I think Alonso got his nose outta place. I think alonso was more worried bout being hamiltons team mate in 2008 when Hamilton had more experience, as alonsos mclaren move would've been long term until he saw how quick Lewis was and wouldn't want a rookie to beat a double world champ in same car, so he went back to Renault the safe house. I say safe house because I think Alonso knew hamilton would beat him so it doesn't look like he was beatin on merit as people know his Renault in 2008-09 was cactus.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:07 am 
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Not a chance.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:40 am 
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I don't think so either. Alonso will be at the Scuderia for 4 seasons if Vettel would go there in 2015. Alonso surely will want the nr 1 status.
Vettel being a triple WDC at least however would want equal treatment. That doesn't mean I would love to see it happen. I think it would be interesting to have 2 of the best drivers in the same machinery.

OT: Alonso has not won a WDC yet vs Vettel or Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:00 pm 
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I hope it happens, just because it would be fascinating to see two drivers who (IMO) will eventually be considered amongst the all-time greats, driving the same machinery. Even if it only lasted for a season, to be able to directly compare their performances without the "but one of them had a much better car!" argument would be cool.

If the 2014 rule changes finally end Red Bull's dominance, then maybe it might happen in 2015, or perhaps we'd get a season of it in 2016. Or perhaps Mercedes will finally deliver a good car, Lewis trounces Nico, and the prospect of racing for the German team, with the fastest car, is a lot more appealing to Seb than driving for Ferrari. Really don't know.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:23 pm 
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All I know is that I'd love to see it happen, whatever the outcome. Even if the whole team (Ferrari) and both drivers destroy themselves over it I don't care. I just want to see it happen. THAT would be Formula 1 indeed.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Good point as vettels stated in a recent interview, that he hopes red bull can build a legacy behind them. He believes there is this mystical aura that hangs over ferrari and Mercedes because of there rich motorsport history. Has seb hinted he has a soft spot for merc like Ferrari?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:37 pm 
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If Vettel joined ferrari and the ferrari was the best car, Vettel would end up getting most of poles, and alonso would end up beating him on a race distance and overall he would snatch the WDC due to a better consistency.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:44 pm 
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RacingFan1 wrote:
If Vettel joined ferrari and the ferrari was the best car, Vettel would end up getting most of poles, and alonso would end up beating him on a race distance and overall he would snatch the WDC due to a better consistency.


No no, it doesn't work that way. You have to make a story out of that, come on- use some fantasy! If you were a F1 journo you'd be fired by now, where is the headline??

On a serious note, i don't think this is going to happen anyway, vettels time at Ferrari might come after Alonso retired, but for sure not earlier.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Amon wrote:
I don't think so either. Alonso will be at the Scuderia for 4 seasons if Vettel would go there in 2015. Alonso surely will want the nr 1 status.
Vettel being a triple WDC at least however would want equal treatment.


By the time Vettel goes to Ferrari (in 2015, I believe) he is almost certainly going to be more than a triple WDC. :) . He could well carry the #1 number with him. Alonso is smart enough to know that he won't be in a position to demand continued #1 driver treatment but that won't stop him from trying to get it by underhand means. As you say, Vettel will simply ask for equal treatment and I have a feeling that is what it will be. Ferrari will be in a position to Tell Alonso that they gave him the #1 status for 5 years - 2010 to 2014 - but he failed to deliver the goods, assuming that Alonso has not won his third WDC by then.

By 2015 Ferrari will be keen on winning the WCC more than anything and they will know by then that they would not get it with just one leading driver. Paradoxically, their best chance of WDC as well will be with 2 top drivers together, as long as they are prepared to cope with the sparks that are sure to fly.

When Senna and Prost were together at McLaren in 1988 & 1989, there was plenty of contfrontation between the two but it is also true that they won WCC and WDC in both those seasons.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Just my gut feeling on this...Vettle will not ever drive for Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:55 pm 
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IXIAN wrote:
Just my gut feeling on this...Vettle will not ever drive for Ferrari.


Probably agree, and why would he want to anyway?

The whole thing about drivers aspiring to drive for Ferrari is more about their history and mystique, it's like a fighter pilot wanting to pilot a spitfire....

The thing is, Red Bull and Vettel have conclusively shown that history means very little (other than perhaps a warm fuzzy feeling).

I've no doubt current drivers aspire to drive for RB more than Ferrari.



.....and I've just realised this has pretty much nothing to with the OP's original point so I'll get my coat...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:21 am 
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Biffa wrote:
IXIAN wrote:
Just my gut feeling on this...Vettle will not ever drive for Ferrari.


Probably agree, and why would he want to anyway?

The whole thing about drivers aspiring to drive for Ferrari is more about their history and mystique, it's like a fighter pilot wanting to pilot a spitfire....

The thing is, Red Bull and Vettel have conclusively shown that history means very little (other than perhaps a warm fuzzy feeling).

I've no doubt current drivers aspire to drive for RB more than Ferrari.

On topic now. I think that Vettel and Alonso could work at Ferrari. IF... its in the couple last years of Alonso's career and Ferrari are looking for someone to build their team around, and Alonso and Ferrari work to bring Vettel up into that position. but i think that they cud only work for a year or two, more than that and i think that theyd start getting into eachothers heads.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:11 am 
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all of you seem to have forgotten that dear ol LDM said he wouldn't have two roosters in his hen house, no???

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:48 am 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
Amon wrote:
I don't think so either. Alonso will be at the Scuderia for 4 seasons if Vettel would go there in 2015. Alonso surely will want the nr 1 status.
Vettel being a triple WDC at least however would want equal treatment.


By the time Vettel goes to Ferrari (in 2015, I believe) he is almost certainly going to be more than a triple WDC. :) . He could well carry the #1 number with him. Alonso is smart enough to know that he won't be in a position to demand continued #1 driver treatment but that won't stop him from trying to get it by underhand means. As you say, Vettel will simply ask for equal treatment and I have a feeling that is what it will be. Ferrari will be in a position to Tell Alonso that they gave him the #1 status for 5 years - 2010 to 2014 - but he failed to deliver the goods, assuming that Alonso has not won his third WDC by then.

By 2015 Ferrari will be keen on winning the WCC more than anything and they will know by then that they would not get it with just one leading driver. Paradoxically, their best chance of WDC as well will be with 2 top drivers together, as long as they are prepared to cope with the sparks that are sure to fly.

When Senna and Prost were together at McLaren in 1988 & 1989, there was plenty of contfrontation between the two but it is also true that they won WCC and WDC in both those seasons.

Oh, come on! Some of you totally lose perspective when it comes to this matter, really. Alonso demands number one status, but Vettel just equal treatment? Don't you remember Vettel complaining about Alguersuari not letting him by in the FP at Korea 2010? And the subsequent video of Marko leaving things crystal clear for Alguersuari? Here, have a look at this, and come again to tell me that Vettel is not used to and does not expect number one treatment - and in more than just is own team! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDI2HNLqoo

(Don't miss the "you have orders" comment)

Finally, if I am not mistaken Felipe Massa did not change his contract when Alonso came into Ferrari, did he? In that case, he was racing under exactly the same contractual terms he raced Raikkonen in 2009. And, unless he changed his contract when Raikkonen came in, he raced Raikkonen in 2007 in the same contractual terms he did race Schumacher in 2006.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:40 am 
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I think we are arguing over a sidetracking issue. The original query - whether Alonso and Vettel together at Ferrari would work - IMO it would. But for whatever reason - the main one being that both drivers are fiercely competitive - there will be some internal rivalry but at the end of the day they will succeed in getting the best out of one another.

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Last edited by Zekenwolf on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:33 pm 
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No, it wouldn't. Alonso put himself in the corner, constantly telling everybody that Vettel is not that good. However, I don't think he believes his own BS, so, if Vettel beats him in the same car, Alonso would explode. I don't think he or LdM want to take such chance. As far as LdM is concerned, they have a good enough driver to win the title if the car is there. So, there will be no Vettel vs Alonso as much as I want to see it.

However if they fail to win 2013 and 2014, they may become desperate and Alonso will be told to either accept Vettel as equal or pack his things. In such case, it would be 50-50. If RB are going down with the new engines, Alonso would stay in Ferrari, but if they are competitive, he would switch to RB (unless Hamilton is there before him). So it all depends on the RB form in the next seasons really. If they go down in the rankings, there is some chance to see Vettel and Alonso in Ferrari, otherwise, not a chance.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:41 pm 
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superuser wrote:
No, it wouldn't. Alonso put himself in the corner, constantly telling everybody that Vettel is not that good. However, I don't think he believes his own BS, so, if Vettel beats him in the same car, Alonso would explode. I don't think he or LdM want to take such chance. As far as LdM is concerned, they have a good enough driver to win the title if the car is there. So, there will be no Vettel vs Alonso as much as I want to see it.

However if they fail to win 2013 and 2014, they may become desperate and Alonso will be told to either accept Vettel as equal or pack his things. In such case, it would be 50-50. If RB are going down with the new engines, Alonso would stay in Ferrari, but if they are competitive, he would switch to RB (unless Hamilton is there before him). So it all depends on the RB form in the next seasons really. If they go down in the rankings, there is some chance to see Vettel and Alonso in Ferrari, otherwise, not a chance.


I agree with the highlighted parts and in fact that is what I think will happen. Vettel/RBR will win again in 2013; it will be harder to guess for 2014 with the new engines and all that but IMO Ferrari won't win either title even then. 2014 is likely to be fought out between RBR & McLaren with Mercedes closing the gap.

I see both Button & Perez remaining at McLaren for 2015 but Vettel may leave RBR for Ferrari if the latter team are close enough in the points tally and if RBR showed signs of fading in 2014. But in that case, Alonso himself would not want to go to RBR and with no seat available at McLaren and Hamilton still at Mercedes (he would not want to try for an RBR seat either if they are fading), the only option left for Alonso could be to remain at Ferrari and accept Vettel as a teammate.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:15 pm 
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I hope it does happen. It might even end up similar to 1990 when the established Mansell felt like #2 to Prost. Prost as the new boy dominated him either way and Mansell quit (although that time Prost did too less than 12 months later). Ignore Senna and Prost at McLaren as, while it would be very similar, referencing the same team in that position would be better.

Will it happen? I actually think it will. There's a lot of question marks over Alonso still being 'outperformed by a rookie teammate'. He, Vettel and Hamilton are widely considered the best three drivers at the moment, he may want to put that to rest by beating him.

However he'll also be worried he'll be thrashed by him and his reputation tarnished. Do Ferrari care? Doubt it, look at Schumi being pushed out in favour of Kimi. I think if Fred fails to win in the next couple of seasons, Ferrari may keep him but will try and go for Vettel or Hamilton. I prefer the former as it continues my dreams and predictions.

Another slight possibility is Vettel moves next to Mercedes. I seem to recall him mentioning wanting to drive for both Ferrari and Mercedes (like his hero Michael has), so why Ferrari next? He moves to Mercedes, proves himself against Lewis then moves to Ferrari and retires with maybe 10 WDCs. Life doesn't always play to my script, but why not as a possibility?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:30 pm 
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IXIAN wrote:
Just my gut feeling on this...Vettle will not ever drive for Ferrari.


:thumbup:

If he leaves for 2015 I think it will be to Merc.

Edit on the Proviso Merc still exists.

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Last edited by Johnston on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Probably works for Vettel but not for Alonso.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Quote:
"scuderia_stevie" I hope it does happen. It might even end up similar to 1990 when the established Mansell felt like #2 to Prost. Prost as the new boy dominated him either way.
I have mentioned that comparison before. If Vettel moves to Ferrari to team-up with Alonso, it will be exactly like Prost joining Mansell in 1990. Mansell had won a few races for Ferrari by then and greatly impressed the tifosi with his charging style (remember El Leone and all that?). Popular opinion had it that Mansell would walk all over Prost in their year together at Ferrari but what actually happened was exactly the opposite.

Quote:
Another slight possibility is Vettel moves next to Mercedes. I seem to recall him mentioning wanting to drive for both Ferrari and Mercedes (like his hero Michael has), so why Ferrari next? He moves to Mercedes, proves himself against Lewis then moves to Ferrari and retires with maybe 10 WDCs. Life doesn't always play to my script, but why not as a possibility?


Vettel has certaily said that he wants to drive for both Ferrari and Mercedes at some stage in his career, but methinks that when he does move out of Red Bull, it will be to Ferrari first. The more obvious reason is that Ferrari is already a competitive frontline car but not (yet) Mercedes; but another reason would be that Vettel would want to team up alongside Alonso and Hamilton. Alonso being almost 4 years older than Hamilton and probably set to retire after 2016 would mean that Vettel would want to go to Ferrari first.

There is another possibility that I have considered. If the Mercedes don't quite come-up to frontline by the end of 2015, Hamilton will want to look elsewhere himself. There is no guarantee that there will be a seat for him back at McLaren; Perez's contract might be extended if he does well and by then the team would have thought of a potential successor for Button. In that case, Hamilton might even remain at Mercedes for 1 more year and plan to join Vettel at Ferrari when Alonso retires!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I hope it happens, just because it would be fascinating to see two drivers who (IMO) will eventually be considered amongst the all-time greats, driving the same machinery. Even if it only lasted for a season, to be able to directly compare their performances without the "but one of them had a much better car!" argument would be cool.


Nah, the argument merely changes to the losing driver's car being sabotaged. See recent threads concerning: Alonso/Massa; Vettel/Webber; Button/Hamilton; Hamilton/Alonso; Raikkonen/Massa.

In every case, the same machinery argument was quickly dismissed because, you see, the team was focusing on *Driver's Name Here*, who they had pre-determined the WDC winner :? .

I don't believe two cars from the same stable can ever be identical enough to make a truly fair comparison, but it doesn't matter since those discussing won't allow the argument anyway.


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