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Gary Hartstein's crusade
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5718
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Author:  sultanofhyd [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Gary Hartstein's crusade

Quote:
Btw, it's taken a while, but I am righteously tiddled off. I might launch a crusade (apologies to my Muslim followers, sensitive term!) to get some answers, or get my f**king job back, or let the world know what's REALLY going on on the medical side of the FIA. Understand this: I am NOT bitter or sad. I am seriously angry. And that's bad. Not sure how or when, but there's dark clouds a-gatherin'. This is gonna be a all hail the mods blast!

@f1doc


https://twitter.com/f1doc

And it's not Bernie.

Quote:
Here's the deal: Bernie is one of the most extraordinary people I've had the privilege of meeting.


https://twitter.com/f1doc/status/280674475337457665

Author:  Balibari [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

I was following him until a few days ago, why'd I stop?

But no, def not Bernie. Hartstein on Bernie:

"he is loyal, generous and straight up. I would (almost) take a bullet for him. Not quite, but almost."

So his sacking has clearly come from the FIA, but we knew that anyway. Interestingly, although prof Sid and Max are meant to have got on (as far as the public line goes), Max apparently kept trying to get rid of him. A couple of things have been mentioned since his death, most compellingly Nigel Roebuck saying if Sid was preoccupied with anything, it was Max trying to get rid of him (words to that effect).

Author:  potter84 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Strange situation, no real reason was given to them not extending his contract usually in a position such as his you would stay until you felt you were done or something major went wrong which it hasn't.

Author:  RickM [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.

Author:  jammin78 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.

I hear that, its very unprofessional.

Author:  Balibari [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

jammin78 wrote:
RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.

I hear that, its very unprofessional.

Can you be unprofessional if you don't have a job?

I agree though, it makes him look petty and bitter. These tweets have made me wonder if he's a bit of a tool and that's why the FIA have sacked him. But also if there really is something properly outrageous going on that we don't know about.

Author:  RickM [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Didnt take long for the press to pick up on it: http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/sto ... CMP=chrome

Author:  sultanofhyd [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.


He is no longer employed. And there was no reason given for not extending his contract. He (and the rest of the F1 paddock) has the right to know/tell.

Author:  ashley313 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

That doesn't really sound like Gary. I wonder if he had a few too many....

Author:  Seanie [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

It is odd there's been no explanation, or even negotiation of a new contract.

Has he been replaced? They surely cannot start next season without a doctor...?

Author:  RickM [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

sultanofhyd wrote:
RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.


He is no longer employed. And there was no reason given for not extending his contract. He (and the rest of the F1 paddock) has the right to know/tell.


and that makes it ok to go out publicly slagging off your former employer...?

Author:  Johnston [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

does an employer actually have to give a reason why a contract is not being renewed?

Does all seem a bit weird though, but you have to wonder about his motives. After all if something is up at FIA level why only break cover after his contract wasn't renewed? Surely as a professional worried about peoples health and safety he would have genuine concerns he would want public for the safety of the competitors.


Why does he say get his job back OR let the world know. Surely if something was really up you would just say chocolate fudge cake it and let people know what was going on? OR is he waiting on the autobiography ;)

Author:  dizlexik [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

I knew it wasn't Bernie. This sounds more like politics within FIA and I hate politics. I like and respect Jean Todt, but he seriously did something strange here. Drivers rely on doctor to save their lives. You can't just replace the doctor.

edit typo

Author:  Tufty [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Hartstein was Watkins' protege, was he not? If Max were still around I could understand Hartstein being given the boot - see the reference to Roebuck's article above - but there's no reason to not renew his contract that I can see - quite the opposite, given the first four words of this post.

Whatever's going on, we need an explanation.

Author:  Eva09 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

RickM wrote:
sultanofhyd wrote:
RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.


He is no longer employed. And there was no reason given for not extending his contract. He (and the rest of the F1 paddock) has the right to know/tell.


and that makes it ok to go out publicly slagging off your former employer...?


Saying the wrong thing happens to the best of us.

The stupid thing is using twitter.

Author:  jammin78 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Eva09 wrote:
RickM wrote:
sultanofhyd wrote:
RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.


He is no longer employed. And there was no reason given for not extending his contract. He (and the rest of the F1 paddock) has the right to know/tell.


and that makes it ok to go out publicly slagging off your former employer...?


Saying the wrong thing happens to the best of us.

The stupid thing is using twitter.

Are we sure Hamilton didn't get his twitter account? :lol:
Joke, btw.

Author:  hd23 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

I think the FIA bought the HRT cars to use as the safety and medical cars for the 2013 season. As standard, Karthikeyan came with a HRT, still strapped in and ready to drive in 2013. The FIA then decided he was a cheaper option.

Gary must have been absolutely outraged by this decision. It's understandable though, if your current tools are replaced by inferior ones.

Author:  Laura23 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Tufty wrote:
Hartstein was Watkins' protege, was he not? If Max were still around I could understand Hartstein being given the boot - see the reference to Roebuck's article above - but there's no reason to not renew his contract that I can see - quite the opposite, given the first four words of this post.

Whatever's going on, we need an explanation.

We don't need any explaination. The Doc might but we don't. What the FIA do in terms of sacking their staff has no business of ours, just like if our employer sacked us it would be of no interest to the general public.

Personally he just sounds bitter and a bit egotistical and that alone may have been what cost him his job, maybe got too big for his boots with someone who mattered. He should seek an answer privately, not dragging into the public domain knowing we'll all just paint the FIA as the bad guys.

Author:  ashley313 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Its been awhile since the announcement was made. Perhaps he HAS been seeking the answer privately. Perhaps he's been let go because he was making a big stink about a serious issue? I'll wait to hear what the situation is before judging.

Author:  DaveStebbins [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

RickM wrote:
sultanofhyd wrote:
RickM wrote:
Bit of an unprofessional donkey, or at least he seems to be. Bitching on twitter about your employer just makes you seem stupid.


He is no longer employed. And there was no reason given for not extending his contract. He (and the rest of the F1 paddock) has the right to know/tell.


and that makes it ok to go out publicly slagging off your former employer...?

No worse than for the former employer to publicly slag you by stating that they are not renewing your contract and not giving any reasons.

Author:  mac_d [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

I'd love to know what the whole story is here, but I guess the FiA won't tell him privately so he has attempted to goad them into an answer by stirring up some media coverage about it. I'd be surprised if it worked but worth a shot if it is what has occurred.

Author:  Tufty [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

ashley313 wrote:
Its been awhile since the announcement was made. Perhaps he HAS been seeking the answer privately. Perhaps he's been let go because he was making a big stink about a serious issue? I'll wait to hear what the situation is before judging.

Hence I feel we have a right to know what's going on.

Author:  hittheapex [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

ashley313 wrote:
Its been awhile since the announcement was made. Perhaps he HAS been seeking the answer privately. Perhaps he's been let go because he was making a big stink about a serious issue? I'll wait to hear what the situation is before judging.


Me too, it's possible he was keeping quiet earlier on the understanding that the serious issue would be resolved. Who knows. Could be as simple as a personality difference and a clash of egos. Not fair for a man of his experience that has the support of the drivers, but wouldn't be the first time somebody has been fired legally but unfairly. Happens everyday.

Author:  Laura23 [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Tufty wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Its been awhile since the announcement was made. Perhaps he HAS been seeking the answer privately. Perhaps he's been let go because he was making a big stink about a serious issue? I'll wait to hear what the situation is before judging.

Hence I feel we have a right to know what's going on.

Nope. We don't. Gary does.

Author:  Balibari [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Found this story from back in Nov

"Formula 1 drivers want answers over ousting of Dr Gary Hartstein"
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104517/

Can't see any sign of a followup so presumably either the GPDA got the answers they were seeking from the FIA (don't laugh) or nothing's changed.

I think whether or not we have a right to expect an explanation is debatable and probably moot anyway. Due to the nature of Hartstein's responsibilities, we all have a vested interest in his role being performed properly. If this were a commissioner, bureaucrat or any of the 99% of FIA staff who don't do something so important I could understand. But the FIA have a well earnt reputation for being cynical and less than open and honest, on occasion. I find it within the realms of possibility that he has, for example, been pushing hard for safety measures Todt may not be interested in, or maybe Todt wants to reduce the safety budget and hire someone cheaper. In such cases I think the GPDA at least should know the score. But the FIA should recognise many fans don't trust them and will assume the worst. It's their call if they want to address that, but by not doing they reinforce a negative image of themselves and achieve nothing positive.

Hartstein has gone public, which suggests he at least believes it's nothing to do with incompetence or failings on his part. But if it is we know the FIA are easily petty enough to reveal the fact.

Author:  DrG [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Laura23 wrote:
Tufty wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Its been awhile since the announcement was made. Perhaps he HAS been seeking the answer privately. Perhaps he's been let go because he was making a big stink about a serious issue? I'll wait to hear what the situation is before judging.

Hence I feel we have a right to know what's going on.

Nope. We don't. Gary does.

:thumbup: This... we may want to know why &, I must say I do, but no one but Gary deserves to know why. The fact that he hasn't been given a reason is rather curious. Does anyone know what employment laws he would come under, if any, especially as he is probably on a contract which is a totally different area than straight employee/employer. Regardless, hitting twitter to bitch & complain isn't exactly a wise decision especially if he wants to keep his job. It may get enough F1 fans to kick up a stink that he ends up finding out why but, if I was his boss & he did that to me, I wouldn't be offering him his job back. Mind you, if I was his boss, I would have already told him why I had made my decision. That's only fair, after all.

Author:  Johnston [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Just out of interest, did Hartsteins "Firing" come before or after the comments made by Webber I think about more drug tests in F1?

Author:  Balibari [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Johnston wrote:
Just out of interest, did Hartsteins "Firing" come before or after the comments made by Webber I think about more drug tests in F1?

About 10 days after I think.

Author:  itshoff15 [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

I do remember Gary Hartstein making a racially offensive remark on twitter about a politician here in America. He called Senator Marco Rubio a "cholo." I have no idea if that had anything to do with it, but I do remember being surprised when I saw the tweet. I tweeted him back and he basically told me to lighten up.

Perhaps someone else was more offended than I was and complained? Or perhaps this wasn't the first time he's made a remark a like that? I realize this is speculation, but its the first thing that came to my mind.

Author:  Balibari [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

itshoff15 wrote:
I do remember Gary Hartstein making a racially offensive remark on twitter about a politician here in America. He called Senator Marco Rubio a "cholo." I have no idea if that had anything to do with it, but I do remember being surprised when I saw the tweet. I tweeted him back and he basically told me to lighten up.

Perhaps someone else was more offended than I was and complained? Or perhaps this wasn't the first time he's made a remark a like that? I realize this is speculation, but its the first thing that came to my mind.

8O

Never heard about that. Total speculation again, but combined with his Twitter reaction to being laid off, it could be that he's a bit of a loose cannon not suited to a staid instution like the FIA. Although they don't seem t omind a fascist whoremonger.

Author:  ashley313 [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

If you want my money and my attention, I want to know what I am supporting. Hiring and firing practices are part of that. Same as with any other organization, company, charity, whatever.

Author:  sultanofhyd [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

Balibari wrote:
itshoff15 wrote:
I do remember Gary Hartstein making a racially offensive remark on twitter about a politician here in America. He called Senator Marco Rubio a "cholo." I have no idea if that had anything to do with it, but I do remember being surprised when I saw the tweet. I tweeted him back and he basically told me to lighten up.

Perhaps someone else was more offended than I was and complained? Or perhaps this wasn't the first time he's made a remark a like that? I realize this is speculation, but its the first thing that came to my mind.

8O

Never heard about that. Total speculation again, but combined with his Twitter reaction to being laid off, it could be that he's a bit of a loose cannon not suited to a staid instution like the FIA. Although they don't seem t omind a fascist whoremonger.


He has been working in F1 for 15 years, one would think they would have fired him long ago if there were any behavioural concerns.

Author:  itshoff15 [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary Hartstein's crusade

I thought maybe Carlos Slim or someone from Perez's camp may have complained. I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw the tweet. http://twitter.com/f1doc/statuses/216954841891745792

Looking at his twitter page he was very open about speaking politics; maybe the FIA just wasn't comfortable with that.

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