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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Glad to see this. He's been a bit erratic at times but has also shown some really good pace and deserves another chance in my view. If he has another incident-packed season however then I'd say Lotus need to ditch him. But I think he's learned a thing or two this year and he'll calm down a bit.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm 
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I wonder if they have put any clauses in his contract in case they want to evict him mid season?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
I wonder if they have put any clauses in his contract in case they want to evict him mid season?


A little while back, I wondered whether they might name an experienced driver as their third driver, so they have the option to give them the drive if Romain can't get past the mistakes that plagued him this year. Given Kobayashi said he has no interest in racing in another series, it wouldn't shock me to see him end up as the Lotus 3rd driver.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
I wonder if they have put any clauses in his contract in case they want to evict him mid season?

I'd have thought so. I bet they wanted to do just that a few times this year.

I'd guess there is a performance clause.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Johnston wrote:
I wonder if they have put any clauses in his contract in case they want to evict him mid season?


A little while back, I wondered whether they might name an experienced driver as their third driver, so they have the option to give them the drive if Romain can't get past the mistakes that plagued him this year. Given Kobayashi said he has no interest in racing in another series, it wouldn't shock me to see him end up as the Lotus 3rd driver.

Davide Valsecchi may get a 3rd seat.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:41 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
I have a soft spot for Bruno, so I'm a little disappointed that there's one less potential seat available, but to be honest I think Romain Bigtrousers probably deserves it more.

There was a quote from someone like Frank Williams or someone to the effect of how it's far easier for someone to learn race craft than it is to learn how to be fast; that probably fits this scenario quite well.


Kenny Roberts - "It's easier to teach a fast rider not to cash, than it is to teach a slow rider to be fast"

Same principle for Grosjean and F1... If he can cut out the 1st lap incidents, he could be right up there challenging for podiums...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:01 am 
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He has the lowest amount of completed laps in 2012. Apart from D'Ambrosio who sat in for him of course.

Meanwhile his teammate has the most. Is this the first time in F1 history this has happened? (if you exclude fill-in drivers etc.)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:44 am 
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Gothalamide wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
I have a soft spot for Bruno, so I'm a little disappointed that there's one less potential seat available, but to be honest I think Romain Bigtrousers probably deserves it more.

There was a quote from someone like Frank Williams or someone to the effect of how it's far easier for someone to learn race craft than it is to learn how to be fast; that probably fits this scenario quite well.


Kenny Roberts - "It's easier to teach a fast rider not to cash, than it is to teach a slow rider to be fast"

Same principle for Grosjean and F1... If he can cut out the 1st lap incidents, he could be right up there challenging for podiums...

:D :D :D


I dont really see how that statement is correct, if you look at all of the current champions all of them showed both relatively good speed and consistency right from the start. There are lots of fast drivers, on any given day you will often find drivers who could match the speed of those at the front of the grid. The true margins between drivers are so small these days, it is in fact usually their consistency that tends to really set the drivers apart.

But of course rookies dont get much testing these days so it might just take them longer to get a feel for the races. Grosjean could do much better next season and it would be better to judge him after another season.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:17 am 
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This is a no brainer really when you look at all the options available.

The kid has speed, no doubt about it. I'm sure he already learned his lessen. 2013 will not be taken for granted. And that maybe he will take a more calm approach to certain situations on the track. Like Alonso and Kimi has been able to do.

His relationship with the team and Kimi probably extends better than some other drivers with their own personal.

I wish him the very best.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:39 am 
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People who think Kobayashi deserves the Lotus seat more than Grosjean are just plain delusional.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:11 am 
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hittheapex wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Fair enough, he clearly has something in he way of talent but its a risk and be it on Boullier's head if it backfires.


I think Boullier will be OK, he managed to bring Kimi to the team. It'll be a disaster if Grosjean backfires again and Kimi leaves at the end of the year though. I wanted Kobayashi there in large part because I think he deserves a good seat in F1, but Grosjean also deserves this chance. Sometimes it's just like musical chairs and when the music stops somebody is going to be left with nowhere to sit.


Nope, it was Lopez who personally signed Kimi and then informed Boullier about it afterwards because he knew Boullier didn't like Kimi - remember the big PR mess he created when Robert had his accident? EB kept muttering in the press that he had to look Kimi in the eyes to see if he was motivated, bla bla bla

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:26 am 
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becker wrote:
He has the lowest amount of completed laps in 2012. Apart from D'Ambrosio who sat in for him of course.

Meanwhile his teammate has the most. Is this the first time in F1 history this has happened? (if you exclude fill-in drivers etc.)


Grosjean missed a race though. If you add D'Ambrosio's laps onto Grosjean's what's the difference then?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:35 am 
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Jinx wrote:
hittheapex wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Fair enough, he clearly has something in he way of talent but its a risk and be it on Boullier's head if it backfires.


I think Boullier will be OK, he managed to bring Kimi to the team. It'll be a disaster if Grosjean backfires again and Kimi leaves at the end of the year though. I wanted Kobayashi there in large part because I think he deserves a good seat in F1, but Grosjean also deserves this chance. Sometimes it's just like musical chairs and when the music stops somebody is going to be left with nowhere to sit.


Nope, it was Lopez who personally signed Kimi and then informed Boullier about it afterwards because he knew Boullier didn't like Kimi - remember the big PR mess he created when Robert had his accident? EB kept muttering in the press that he had to look Kimi in the eyes to see if he was motivated, bla bla bla


Woops, you are right.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:57 am 
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nomster wrote:
People who think Kobayashi deserves the Lotus seat more than Grosjean are just plain delusional.

No they have different opinions, not everything is black and white. Live with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:16 am 
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Yes!! I'm a big fan, so was hoping for RoGro to retain the seat, this is good news. Shame for Kamui, I really want to see him on the grid in 2013 as well, but nto at the expense of another favourite driver. Hopefully Kamui will get a third driver role somewhere and do a Hulkenberg, test for a year before getting a full seat in 2014. Not sure it's a likely option, but we can hope.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:10 am 
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Boudica wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
I have a soft spot for Bruno, so I'm a little disappointed that there's one less potential seat available, but to be honest I think Romain Bigtrousers probably deserves it more.

There was a quote from someone like Frank Williams or someone to the effect of how it's far easier for someone to learn race craft than it is to learn how to be fast; that probably fits this scenario quite well.


Kenny Roberts - "It's easier to teach a fast rider not to cash, than it is to teach a slow rider to be fast"

Same principle for Grosjean and F1... If he can cut out the 1st lap incidents, he could be right up there challenging for podiums...

:D :D :D


I dont really see how that statement is correct, if you look at all of the current champions all of them showed both relatively good speed and consistency right from the start. There are lots of fast drivers, on any given day you will often find drivers who could match the speed of those at the front of the grid. The true margins between drivers are so small these days, it is in fact usually their consistency that tends to really set the drivers apart.

But of course rookies dont get much testing these days so it might just take them longer to get a feel for the races. Grosjean could do much better next season and it would be better to judge him after another season.


Yea, but the original statement was made by a former motorbike rider about two types of motorbike riders.

Can't remember who it was originally about, but the idea was that it was easier to take someone like Simoncelli, who was known for being fast but unpredictable and would more often than not crash - than it was to take someone 2 or 3 secs slower and try and make them fast.

The F1 equivalent is true in that it's easier to take Grosjean and get him to avoid first lap incidents, than it is to take Karthikayan and make him fast.


The margins of difference in the drivers in F1 is very small, but the point is still true. Also, one season is probably too quick to judge a driver and if Grosjean can show next year he's learned, we'll also likely see him battling at the front (assuming the Lotus is half decent)

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:24 am 
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At first I was a bit disappointed because I'd have rather seen Valsecchi or Kobayashi in that seat, but congrats to Romain. Seems like it'll be his last shot. If he still crashes in the first few races, the he surely must run out of leeway.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:28 am 
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I'm now going to go into full on support for Grosjean and hope he beats Kimi! Tall order, and unlikely to happen, but I can have hopes! I was ready to go on a "burn Lotus" campaign if he didn't get the seat.

PS - that's burn as in "kill it with fire" rather than just mentioning their sponsor, it makes a big different to the campaign's intended effect ha.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:31 am 
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I'm happy he gets another chance. He needs to sort out his mistakes though. I still hope Kobayashi gets a a seat somewhere too.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:47 am 
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Happy for RoGro! I feel him and Kimi could be dark horses for next season.

Bruno doesn't deserve another shot at F1. Three chances and it's obvious he can't cut it.

As for KK, well he's impressed but not enough in my opinion. Suzuka aside he didn't really improve on 2011.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:35 pm 
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TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
nomster wrote:
People who think Kobayashi deserves the Lotus seat more than Grosjean are just plain delusional.

No they have different opinions, not everything is black and white. Live with it.

Haven't you noticed that on this forum anyone who doesn't share your opinion is delusional?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
nomster wrote:
People who think Kobayashi deserves the Lotus seat more than Grosjean are just plain delusional.

No they have different opinions, not everything is black and white. Live with it.

Haven't you noticed that on this forum anyone who doesn't share your opinion is delusional?

I haven't noticed that at all, you're clearly delusional. Too much time staring at hypnotoad!

;)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Crangiopharengoma wrote:

Grosjean missed a race though. If you add D'Ambrosio's laps onto Grosjean's what's the difference then?


Even if you add on Dambrosia's laps Grosjean is still last, behind both HRTs.

But you shouldn't add on those laps because he lost them via his own fault. If you crash and lose 20 laps in a race, you don't get to 'add them back on'. So if you get banned for a race for being an idiot, you don't get to add those laps back to your total.

The point is that Grosjean is a terrible at finishing races becauser he completed the least laps while his teamate was able to complete the most laps. I can't recall this ever happening before unless you include drivers who just sat in for a few races or who got fired mid-season.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:22 pm 
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becker wrote:
Crangiopharengoma wrote:

Grosjean missed a race though. If you add D'Ambrosio's laps onto Grosjean's what's the difference then?


Even if you add on Dambrosia's laps Grosjean is still last, behind both HRTs.

But you shouldn't add on those laps because he lost them via his own fault. If you crash and lose 20 laps in a race, you don't get to 'add them back on'. So if you get banned for a race for being an idiot, you don't get to add those laps back to your total.

The point is that Grosjean is a terrible at finishing races becauser he completed the least laps while his teamate was able to complete the most laps. I can't recall this ever happening before unless you include drivers who just sat in for a few races or who got fired mid-season.


I think the point was more about comparing someone who only raced 19 races versus everyone else who did 20...

Like you say though, even if you addin Jerome's 53 laps, RG would still not be close to the HRT's...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... scompleted

Interesting one is how some other drivers are way down as well. Pastor and Perez in 20th and 21st for instance... Nico and Schumi 18th and 19th...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
Like you say though, even if you addin Jerome's 53 laps, RG would still not be close to the HRT's...

I agree, he really is a terrible driver.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Christ, people are relentless on forums... oh no Grosjean finished less laps than the HRTs... he still beat 16 other drivers to come 8th in the WDC, and got 3 podiums. So he beat all of the Force India, Mercedes, Sauber, Marussia, HRT, Toro Rosso, Williams and Caterham drivers, coming behind only 7 drivers... the Ferraris, Red Bulls, McLarens and his team mate. What a terrible driver.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:54 pm 
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becker wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
Like you say though, even if you addin Jerome's 53 laps, RG would still not be close to the HRT's...

I agree, he really is a terrible driver.

He didn't mean that. Stop putting words into someones mouth. :thumbdown:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Well, I am eager to see will he stop exits and if so, how it affects to his driving if at all..Burn trademark doesnt have to come up with good advertising slogans tho if Gro keeps on crashing. Just crash and burn, boys. :-P


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:16 pm 
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I'm sure he'll calm down. In the long term, his speed will shine through. But he has a lot of doubters to prove wrong, myself included. But probably within Renault too.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Right decision. He could even trouble Kimi next year, although beating him in the WDC would be a tall order it's not impossible.

Hamilton-Nico and Kimi-RoGro look to be the most intriguing partnerships next year. Button-Perez I see as a bit of a whitewash, and Massa will improve but he isn't likely to beat Alonso unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:32 pm 
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"Grosjean confirmed for 2013 with Lotus"

All others drivers on the grid, beware !!!
Alonso, watch out !!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
Interesting one is how some other drivers are way down as well. Pastor and Perez in 20th and 21st for instance... Nico and Schumi 18th and 19th...

Well, off the top of my head Perez got taken out on lap one in both Belgium and Brazil, in addition to when Maldanado took him out pretty early in a race (was it Silverstone?). One or two of his early exits were his own fault, but it is tough to complete laps when you keep getting punted off the track by others on lap 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:28 am 
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Was it not for Massa's comeback, he would come 7th in the championship. Not bad, although seem like he lost some of form from early in the season. All his notable success was up until Hungary; after that race, he was no better than 7th. I hope he gets his form back.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:19 am 
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DaveStebbins wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
Interesting one is how some other drivers are way down as well. Pastor and Perez in 20th and 21st for instance... Nico and Schumi 18th and 19th...

Well, off the top of my head Perez got taken out on lap one in both Belgium and Brazil, in addition to when Maldanado took him out pretty early in a race (was it Silverstone?). One or two of his early exits were his own fault, but it is tough to complete laps when you keep getting punted off the track by others on lap 1.


Similar for Nico, he races perfectly clean, perhaps too clean (except Bahrain). But yeah he collided against Grosjean (then Karthikeyan) in Abu Dhabi and he and Button kinda squeezed Koba in T2 Korea. Japan was simply bad luck.

The point is if you get eliminated early it cuts in very hard.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:20 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Was it not for Massa's comeback,


:] :D :] :D I am glad to see,


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