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 Post subject: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Christian Horner's comments about not retaining Massa for another season if he, Horner, had been in charge of Ferrari sounds like a deliberate dig to fire-up the Brazilain for 2013. I think so because Horner's comments have come on the heels of Massa's own about going all out in 2013.

I hope that more than anything else it motivates the Brazilian driver to stop being Alonso's lapdog and race for himself. Whether the team will allow him to be a free agent is another matter, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:53 pm 
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A source would be helpful, or are we supposed to guess what he said? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:55 pm 
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http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/8340920/Horner-I-would-not-have-retained-Massa


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:58 pm 
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RickM wrote:
A source would be helpful, or are we supposed to guess what he said? ;)


Sorry, it was right here in Planet F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:02 pm 
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If it's on Planet F1 front page we're probably still guessing what was really said :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Maybe stefano will come out with similar comments soon about webber to fire him up !


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:15 pm 
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A2jdl wrote:
Maybe stefano will come out with similar comments soon about webber to fire him up !

"If I was in charge of Red Bull I would have let Webber go to Ferrari"

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:06 pm 
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His comments about Felipe are just as much a warning to and about Mark.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:23 pm 
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The PF1's picture is hilarious

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:26 pm 
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flavio81 wrote:
The PF1's picture is hilarious

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Isn't Helmut Marko responsible for Red Bull line up?

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:43 pm 
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I agree with Horner.


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:14 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
His comments about Felipe are just as much a warning to and about Mark.


Possibly. But IMO Massa is a better dirver than Webber. For some reason that I cannot shake off, I have had this crazy feeling for some time that when Webber leaves RBR (either on his own or with 'help'), Massa will be among those considered for that seat.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
His comments about Felipe are just as much a warning to and about Mark.


Possibly. But IMO Massa is a better dirver than Webber. For some reason that I cannot shake off, I have had this crazy feeling for some time that when Webber leaves RBR (either on his own or with 'help'), Massa will be among those considered for that seat.

Its not really crazy...they are the only two real team bitches on the grid right now. Won't happen though...there are better potential #2's.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:23 pm 
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So... Mark and Felipe would have possibly flip-flopped? No.

Anyways, I'm a follower of Massa and he really stepped his game up the second half of the season. Where was Mark the second half of the season? Mark looked great the first half of the season, but he dropped of massively the second half. Well, I won't say massively. Think of it this way because Massa has always been a stronger driver in the second half of the season. Look at his results and compare it to the first half of the season in every part of his career.

I'm telling you all and make note of it. I think Massa can make a run for the WDC, but he has to be on it every race in order to make it possible. Alonso and Massa will be on a clean slate next season and I think he can make a run... He has to push as Trulli would say it "Pushing like a whore."

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:25 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Won't happen though...there are better potential #2's.


IMO, for leading teams the choice of #2 driver is often more difficult than the usually obvious #1. #2 has to be good enough to win enough points for the tean towards the WCC but not to compete with the #1 for the WDC.

I hasten to add that while I believe that to be the F1 team thinking, I don't agree with it. If I were a team boss, I would go for the best driver combo, full stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Just for the sake of it I decided to look at the respective seasons of Webber and Massa and compared them.
1st half of the season, Webber finished higher than Massa 10/10 times.
2nd half of the season, Webber finished higher than Massa 3/10 times, one of those being Korea where Felipe was told to slow down.

Certainly if Horner wants to say he'd get rid of Massa if he ran Ferrari, he might want to give Webbo a talking to for his dismal second half of the season that saw him grab 3 podiums compared to his team mates' 7, or 0 wins to his team mates' 4. I'm not sure why it's any of Horner's business to comment on whether Massa should be retained or not, unless he fears Massa becoming a challenge next year and wants to destabilise him with words. But that's Alonso's job!

I actually like both Massa and Webber btw.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Won't happen though...there are better potential #2's.


IMO, for leading teams the choice of #2 driver is often more difficult than the usually obvious #1. #2 has to be good enough to win enough points for the tean towards the WCC but not to compete with the #1 for the WDC.

I hasten to add that while I believe that to be the F1 team thinking, I don't agree with it. If I were a team boss, I would go for the best driver combo, full stop.

If RBR decides to have another Mark...someone who can take it to seb regularly, which is what they want based on history...they might try to get Kimi. He's the only really strong driver I could see Seb not having a problem with - I think he'd relish the challenge actually - and Red Bull already has a relationship with Kimi.

If they decide to go for "less than Mark" I'd expect a promotion from in the family, but not necessarily from STR. Ant Felix da Costa could go straight up if he continues to deliver the way he did in 2012.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:56 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
flavio81 wrote:
The PF1's picture is hilarious

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If it started with "Obviously..." then perfect quote


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:09 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
I'm not sure why it's any of Horner's business to comment on whether Massa should be retained or not


Well, you should really ask that to the journalist asking him the question.
It's not like Horner decided he wanted to take a stab at Massa, then called some journo's together for a press release in which he stated this...

I understand what you're saying about Webber, he had a bleak second half of the season. However, championships are not to be judged on half-seasons or quarter-seasons or whatever arbitrary length of time. Over the course of a season, Webber hasn't done bad and has brought in more than enough points to bag the WCC. He could have taken some more points off Alonso, but in the end they brought home both championships.


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:56 am 
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mds wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
I'm not sure why it's any of Horner's business to comment on whether Massa should be retained or not


Well, you should really ask that to the journalist asking him the question.
It's not like Horner decided he wanted to take a stab at Massa, then called some journo's together for a press release in which he stated this...

I understand what you're saying about Webber, he had a bleak second half of the season. However, championships are not to be judged on half-seasons or quarter-seasons or whatever arbitrary length of time. Over the course of a season, Webber hasn't done bad and has brought in more than enough points to bag the WCC. He could have taken some more points off Alonso, but in the end they brought home both championships.

True enough, journos are the ones putting interviewees into the predicaments. Bloody journos :P

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:48 am 
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...yeah, Horner's just being a j*****s! nothing new...

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Come on horner its getting boring now, first mclaren are weaker without lewis and now its ferrari and massa.

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:39 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree with Horner.

Same, 3-4 races where he was good in the space of 2 years is frankly a pathetic performance. Ferraris choices were few and while Alonso was hitting the podium - Massa was struggling back in 10th. Out of the top 6 drivers he was the worst one by far and not for a few months but over the course of two years.

His career was saved in the last few months of this year - thats how bad he was. Horner is being very spot on and 4 months ago 99% of people in this forum were calling for his head. If webber really performed like that for almost two years he too would have been gone. Same for any driver in RBR or Mclaren, even Merc.


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:45 pm 
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he is probably right.

a poor start to 2013 for Massa and Ferrari are up against it again (WCC)


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:53 pm 
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diablof1 wrote:
Come on horner its getting boring now, first mclaren are weaker without lewis and now its ferrari and massa.


Whitmarsh and Don Monty have talked a lot of bullshit in the past about how it is all Newey & not Vettel etc and so why is it only boring when Horner says something?

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
Come on horner its getting boring now, first mclaren are weaker without lewis and now its ferrari and massa.


Whitmarsh and Don Monty have talked a lot of bullshit in the past about how it is all Newey & not Vettel etc and so why is it only boring when Horner says something?


When Don Monty And Whitmarsh talk bullshit about Horner/Vettel in the future for sure I will call them boring ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:05 pm 
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diablof1 wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
Come on horner its getting boring now, first mclaren are weaker without lewis and now its ferrari and massa.


Whitmarsh and Don Monty have talked a lot of bullshit in the past about how it is all Newey & not Vettel etc and so why is it only boring when Horner says something?


When Don Monty And Whitmarsh talk bullshit about Horner/Vettel in the future for sure I will call them boring ;)


Again, don't slam Horner for just answering a question a journalist asked him.


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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:16 pm 
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mds wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
Come on horner its getting boring now, first mclaren are weaker without lewis and now its ferrari and massa.


Whitmarsh and Don Monty have talked a lot of bullshit in the past about how it is all Newey & not Vettel etc and so why is it only boring when Horner says something?


When Don Monty And Whitmarsh talk bullshit about Horner/Vettel in the future for sure I will call them boring ;)


Again, don't slam Horner for just answering a question a journalist asked him.


Christian Horner is that you?

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 Post subject: Re: Horner on Massa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:26 pm 
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As always, without being able to see a video of the interview thus seeing the answer in context, I would say that it is Horner having a dig at Ferrari with tongue firmly in cheek.


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