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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:17 pm 
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From Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104880 :

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Fry reckons Hamilton is in the same category as Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso when it comes to winning with a car that is not the class of the field.

He believes world champion Sebastian Vettel is yet to prove that despite three titles in a row.

"Certainly in my view, Lewis and Fernando Alonso are the two best drivers," he added. "I'd caveat that by saying Sebastian Vettel may well be in that group, but he's always had the best car, and he's got to prove it, in my mind
.

"Certainly Fernando this year, when the Ferrari has not been the best car by any stretch of the imagination, has still done an exceptional job.

"And I think Lewis is still in that category of being a driver you could give not quite the best car and he could still win races, whereas most of the other drivers in the Formula 1 field will probably win the race if you give them the best car."


Sentiment shared by most people, I would say.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:36 pm 
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I agree :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:54 pm 
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“Rubens is not only an excellent driver but he has the experience of building a race and championship winning team and these skills are very important as we work to take BAR Honda to the next level.”


Quote:
This is the best driver line-up in our team's history. It is also the best team of drivers on the grid.”



Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Nick Fry is used to making silly statements in the off season.I remember before the start of the 2007 season he boasted that honda will win races and may even be in contention for the championship.We all know how well that turned out.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:11 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?



Yup

sandyf1 wrote:
Nick Fry is used to making silly statements in the off season.I remember before the start of the 2007 season he boasted that honda will win races and may even be in contention for the championship.We all know how well that turned out.


At the end of '07 Ross Brawn was the final part needed.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:16 pm 
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m'eh think he's right but said in the same way as most of his other off season statements ... not surprising


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Quote:
This is the best driver line-up in our team's history. It is also the best team of drivers on the grid.

Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?



Yup

At that point in time he was right about the first part.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:46 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Quote:
This is the best driver line-up in our team's history. It is also the best team of drivers on the grid.

Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?



Yup

At that point in time he was right about the first part.


I'd say he was right about both parts! even if the year he was talking about was 2007 Lewis was still unknown


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:54 pm 
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He's correct.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:02 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Quote:
This is the best driver line-up in our team's history. It is also the best team of drivers on the grid.

Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?



Yup

At that point in time he was right about the first part.


I'd say he was right about both parts! even if the year he was talking about was 2007 Lewis was still unknown[/quote]
Didn't barrichello join in 2006? The Raikkonen/Montoya pairing was far better going into 2006.Even Alonso/fisico was better.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Maybe Raikkonen/Montoya. but not Alonso/Fisi

Jenson and Rubens are both good and consistent. Jenson is certainly among the best and Rubens can keep up most of the time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
Sentiment shared by most people, I would say.


I see you're making progress. You're actually agreeing Vettel might be just as good as Alonso and Hamilton. That's huge, coming from you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Seems to be the prevailing opinion :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:47 pm 
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In 2007 the best and strongest driver pairings were indeed Raikkonen/Massa and Alonso/Hamilton and they duked it out between them in the 4 Ferraris. Everyone else was a distant 2nd. Personally I'd put Sato/Davidson ahead of Barrichello/Button and some others would place 1 or 2 other pairings ahead of them as well. In the end after the first 4 everything else depends on personal opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:13 pm 
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They're all amazing drivers. Vettel is incredible but as is Formula 1, the respect is earned when you win without the best machinery. That's why Schumacher is #4 on the BBC's list. What Vettel did in Brazil this year to win the title should really have shut everyone up. Alonso is also terrific but in Sao Paolo, it was Massa who was excelling. Alonso needed one more place and he couldn't find it. Both are top of the field, but to say Vettel isn't better because of the car, really is unfair. Give credit where credit is due.

People (Nick Fry, and everyone else me included) are tired of one team always winning, just like Ferrari's run with Schumi. We want to see others win and create rivalries. But to say they are not the best, totally unfair. Seb won 3 straight titles, he is the man until he is not. End of story.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
From Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104880 :

Quote:
Fry reckons Hamilton is in the same category as Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso when it comes to winning with a car that is not the class of the field.

He believes world champion Sebastian Vettel is yet to prove that despite three titles in a row.

"Certainly in my view, Lewis and Fernando Alonso are the two best drivers," he added. "I'd caveat that by saying Sebastian Vettel may well be in that group, but he's always had the best car, and he's got to prove it, in my mind
.

"Certainly Fernando this year, when the Ferrari has not been the best car by any stretch of the imagination, has still done an exceptional job.

"And I think Lewis is still in that category of being a driver you could give not quite the best car and he could still win races, whereas most of the other drivers in the Formula 1 field will probably win the race if you give them the best car."


Sentiment shared by most people, I would say.


No suprises there.

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Bentrovato wrote:
They're all amazing drivers. Vettel is incredible but as is Formula 1, the respect is earned when you win without the best machinery. That's why Schumacher is #4 on the BBC's list. What Vettel did in Brazil this year to win the title should really have shut everyone up. Alonso is also terrific but in Sao Paolo, it was Massa who was excelling. Alonso needed one more place and he couldn't find it. Both are top of the field, but to say Vettel isn't better because of the car, really is unfair. Give credit where credit is due.

People (Nick Fry, and everyone else me included) are tired of one team always winning, just like Ferrari's run with Schumi. We want to see others win and create rivalries. But to say they are not the best, totally unfair. Seb won 3 straight titles, he is the man until he is not. End of story.


Rubbish.

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Last edited by Emerson.F on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Last edited by Emerson.F on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Look Vettel is young maybe one day he will challenge Alonso/Hamilton by joining one of there teams.

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Last edited by diablof1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:31 pm 
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So Fry is saying: "my driver is the best one, as is the driver that equalled his result in the same car in 2007".

I see totally no conflict of interest. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:07 pm 
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I think the point I would add to this is who could beat Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery out of the current grid.
I think no one on the current grid could match Alonso over say 3/4 seasons accept Hamilton (in the same car)
I think no one on the current grid could match Hamilton over say 3/4 seasons accept Alonso (in the same car).

I think until Alonso & Hamilton go head to head over 3/4 seasons its difficult to know which one will come out on top.

My gut feeling Hamilton would come out on top due to his sheer raw speed in qualifying and starting higher up the grid in most races.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:09 pm 
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mds wrote:
So Fry is saying: "my driver is the best one, as is the driver that equalled his result in the same car in 2007".

I see totally no conflict of interest. :D


So Fry can't offer an honest view because Lewis is moving to Merc?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:13 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Quote:
This is the best driver line-up in our team's history. It is also the best team of drivers on the grid.

Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?



Yup

At that point in time he was right about the first part.


In 2006 you could as well think the Button/Rubens pairing was one of the best ones... Rubens was still a top driver and Button as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Zblogger wrote:
I think the point I would add to this is who could beat Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery out of the current grid.
I think no one on the current grid could match Alonso over say 3/4 seasons accept Hamilton (in the same car)
I think no one on the current grid could match Hamilton over say 3/4 seasons accept Alonso (in the same car).

I think until Alonso & Hamilton go head to head over 3/4 seasons its difficult to know which one will come out on top.

My gut feeling Hamilton would come out on top due to his sheer raw speed in qualifying and starting higher up the grid in most races.


YES, absolutely no one. you are 100% correct. i have never heard of a driver that can match Lewis over a period of 3 season. EVER<<<<<< Fact

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S it should be except not accept


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:25 pm 
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RaisinChips wrote:
mds wrote:
So Fry is saying: "my driver is the best one, as is the driver that equalled his result in the same car in 2007".

I see totally no conflict of interest. :D


So Fry can't offer an honest view because Lewis is moving to Merc?


I'm not necessarily implying that. It's just pretty logical Fry is saying this. He contracted Hamilton, so obviously he believes he's damn good (I do too, by the way). But I also believe if it had been Vettel going that way, you'd hear him naming Vettel and Alonso to be the best. Showing confidence gives confidence, and that's what you want in a racing driver.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:28 pm 
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I agree with Hamilton and Alonso as the best drivers, but I would also include Vettel. Vettel was also great. He did reasonably good job in second part of 2008 then in 2011 he showed that he can dominate and in 2012 he showed that he can win WDC in not the fastest car and fight against the odds (Abu Dhabi and Brazil were one of his best races in his career). In Abu Dhabi he onece again showed that he isn't crash kid anymore. In Brazil he raced with extremely high pressure, everything that could go wrong went wrong and expect for start and first lap he didn't make any mistakes. He made absolute maximum in damaged car in wet conditions and won the title. We will never decide who is better: Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel, but Vettel is certainly one of at least 3 best drivers currently in F1.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:37 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
I agree with Hamilton and Alonso as the best driver, but I would also include Vettel. Vettel was also great. He did reasonably good job in second part of 2008 then in 2011 he showed that he can dominate and in 2012 he showed that he can win WDC in not the fastest car and fight against the odds (Abu Dhabi and Brazil were one of his best races in his career). In Abu Dhabi he onece again showed that he isn't crash kid anymore. In Brazil he raced with extremely high pressure, everything that could go wrong went wrong and expect for start and first lap he didn't make any mistakes. He made absolute maximum in damaged car in wet conditions and won the title. We will never decide who is better: Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel, but Vettel is certainly one of at least 3 best drivers currently in F1.


The redbull was the best car overall in 2012. Abu Dhabi he nearly took out riccardo and Brazil he swiped senna and those are his best races :?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:56 pm 
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diablof1 wrote:
The redbull was the best car overall in 2012. Abu Dhabi he nearly took out riccardo and Brazil he swiped senna and those are his best races :?


Racing incidents (T4 Brazil) happen. It's how Vettel dealed with the conditions that made his race remarkable.

Take Spa, what negatives are you going to find for Vettels race there?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:58 pm 
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diablof1 wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I agree with Hamilton and Alonso as the best driver, but I would also include Vettel. Vettel was also great. He did reasonably good job in second part of 2008 then in 2011 he showed that he can dominate and in 2012 he showed that he can win WDC in not the fastest car and fight against the odds (Abu Dhabi and Brazil were one of his best races in his career). In Abu Dhabi he onece again showed that he isn't crash kid anymore. In Brazil he raced with extremely high pressure, everything that could go wrong went wrong and expect for start and first lap he didn't make any mistakes. He made absolute maximum in damaged car in wet conditions and won the title. We will never decide who is better: Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel, but Vettel is certainly one of at least 3 best drivers currently in F1.


The redbull was the best car overall in 2012. Abu Dhabi he nearly took out riccardo and Brazil he swiped senna and those are his best races :?

McLaren was the fastest. Sure McLaren made man mistakes, but still Vettel had to make the best of of his car every time to take advantage of McLaren mistakes and he was racing Alonso too.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:14 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Quote:
This is the best driver line-up in our team's history. It is also the best team of drivers on the grid.

Can you guess who he was talking about in the last one?


Jenson and Rubens?



Yup

At that point in time he was right about the first part.


So despite Button and Rubens not being rated on the board are you saying both in 2006 (Before buttons turn of form and before his first win) was better than a WDC? ;)

Remember in 2006 we had Kimi/Montoya, schui/massa.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Seriously, cant we just have one big "Argue about who the best driver is and why" thread? Or would its enormity and ridiculousness break the internet?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Zblogger wrote:
I think the point I would add to this is who could beat Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery out of the current grid.
I think no one on the current grid could match Alonso over say 3/4 seasons accept Hamilton (in the same car)
I think no one on the current grid could match Hamilton over say 3/4 seasons accept Alonso (in the same car).

I think until Alonso & Hamilton go head to head over 3/4 seasons its difficult to know which one will come out on top.

My gut feeling Hamilton would come out on top due to his sheer raw speed in qualifying and starting higher up the grid in most races.

I dunno about that.

Vettel is a pretty special talent regardless of having the best car or not and I think he proved fair and square he is able to do things in a car that others cannot. Toro Rosso and then Red Bull. Sure some things might not be to his ideal liking and play to his strengths, but he has shown he is good enough to be able to adapt to the situation and push the car and himself past the limits of others in the same car. This is the same as Hamilton and Alonso though I'd agree Hamilton MIGHT have the edge. As well, given he is in top form and a competitive package that suits his tastes, Massa I think has shown he can do the same, especially in late 2012. he was doing things in the Ferrari Alonso could not and literally yielded positions to him to help his campaign. Perhaps Raikkonen too but I'm not so convinced, though his consistency is insane when the car is right.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Poor Nick, like some others, he cannot remember Seb in the STRF 2008. Perhaps he meant he didn't know whether Seb could win a title in 'not the best car' when it was still a 'challenging' car. That must be what he meant. Of course, neither Hamilton nor Alonso have won a title in 'not the best' car either. So whatever...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Can't stand Nick Fry, he is just a complete and utter tool.

The best drivers in F1 are Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Kimi, that's a fact and anyway who say's otherwise are talking rubbish.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:19 pm 
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What seperates Alonso, Hamilton and i would say Kimi is they can win when the car isn't the best. Vettel still has to prove that yet, Jenson 100% can't and also other drivers would struggle.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:26 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
What seperates Alonso, Hamilton and i would say Kimi is they can win when the car isn't the best. Vettel still has to prove that yet, Jenson 100% can't and also other drivers would struggle.


But yet Jenson was able to win when Lewis couldn't.

What does that say ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:28 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Zblogger wrote:
I think the point I would add to this is who could beat Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery out of the current grid.
I think no one on the current grid could match Alonso over say 3/4 seasons accept Hamilton (in the same car)
I think no one on the current grid could match Hamilton over say 3/4 seasons accept Alonso (in the same car).

I think until Alonso & Hamilton go head to head over 3/4 seasons its difficult to know which one will come out on top.

My gut feeling Hamilton would come out on top due to his sheer raw speed in qualifying and starting higher up the grid in most races.


YES, absolutely no one. you are 100% correct. i have never heard of a driver that can match Lewis over a period of 3 season. EVER<<<<<< Fact

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S it should be except not accept


I can only assume your a major button fan or a major Lewis hater. Fact is statics lie, and even Jensen button himself would have a hard time arguing that Lewis wouldn't of beaten him by a considerable amount if it wasn't for reliability out of Lewis control. In fact one driver would of probably one the world championship if it wasn't for reliability, where as the over was trailing far behind the cars capability with a much better reliability (I'm not saying pefefect)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:29 pm 
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When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:34 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.



:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:34 pm 
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[/quote]Take Spa, what negatives are you going to find for Vettels race there?[/quote]
That's where the 'vettel blitzing from pole to flag' argument comes in.


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