planetf1.com

Nick Fry is fried..i could care less what this guy says

Again, Vettel has proven that. Sadly the fact that he ended up on a team who's lead engineer is unfairly given all the credit when the fact is Red bull wasn't shit until Vettel came on board. That's something that it seems Vettel will have to unfairly endure until he proves he's a winner post Newey. The fact is he has just as much to do with Red Bull's successes as does Newey.

To clarify on both Alonso, Raikkonen AND Hamilton, they both won their championships while driving a car that was among the best but the cars were not the very best. '05 & '06 Ferrari and Renault were closely matched and in 2007 & 2008 the McLaren and Ferrari were dead nuts to one another and the final standings show just how so which says in plain black and white the cars driven to the championship were indeed not the very best in the field. It came down to the drivers and in 2008 at least, I think Massa outperformed Hamilton by the slightest edge in securing the best possible position when it counted and Hamilton was lucky Toyota made such a huge mistake to gift him the position he otherwise would have struggled to take and snatch the championship from Massa's clutches… barely.

Still highly competitive and ultra close though which is the point of this post.

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Second place is the first loser!

For sure Alonzo and Hamilton are among the top three drivers, in fact they're 2 and 3 in that order. Vettel took a bent car from last to contention in 2 of the last 3 races, one of them in the rain! I'm tired of people saying that the Ferrari was an inferior car thus Alonzo was more deserving. What a load. Massa could have easily passed him had he not been given team orders! In my opinion, this was the best F1 season in history, and was won, by a slim margin, by the best team and the best driver, period. Next year's a new season but, once again, this situation will be repeated.

Massa was lucky MadMax gifted him the win at Spa 2008 etc, etc

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Same thing would have happened if someone else cut a section of track and gained an advantage as a result. It was the right call. Massa was the best in 2008 by a slim margin IMHO.

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Second place is the first loser!

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

He did have the best car and the best team. Yes, the McLaren was faster but so what? No reability, botched pitstops - these things matter. Hugely.

And what did these races show? In Abu Dhabi he hit Senna (?) to damage his front wing, then hit the DRS board. He was passing 90% of the field with ease and was much faster than anyone but Hamilton (back to the reability of the McLaren). He was extremely lucky with the second SC allowing him to pass Button (he was on 8 laps younger options compared to Button's primes).
In Brazil he ended Senna's and Perez' races. The Toro Rossos made him no problem whatsoever and so did not MSC. Again, extremely lucky to be in the race after his mistake.

I absolutely agree that he is one of the 3 best drivers out there, I really do. He has the one-lap speed, the race craft, the instincs and all but he's blessed, that boy. Brilliant car and huge amount of luck, that's why in many people's eyes Hamilton and Alonso are considered better (rightfully or not).

..and gave the advantage back again, until Donelly & Mosley changed the rules some hours after the race, and changed the result, too.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Hamilton has almost zero experience dealing with pressure..when its on him and fighting for WDC.,well bar his rokie year


2008 was very indicative of what Hamilton is like when he needs to deliver under pressure....he presses wrong buttons and gets trapped in sand boxes,please! ..and dont tell me its the team again!

So i say hold your horses before u compare him to Alonso or Vettel for that matter,but then again Nick Fry has been making dumb comments since i can remember

nah, Hamilton never won any championship before
Knows nothing about pressure.....driving at McLaren against WDCs at 4 years,
Here you see he presses no button when he loses drive
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8 ... tube&type=

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Hands up mate at spa he was very good.

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Thats the 2005 season summed up. Kimi had the fastest car but with reliability problems and Fernando was conistent and won the title.

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The fastest car isn't the best car.

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Lewis is a lot of things, but he isn't the most consistent. Except in two seasons ('07 and '12), where i was genuinely impressed by him, i found him and his approach a bit lackadaisical, but that is my opinion, from observations on his time in F1 (didn't follow him in gp2 etc, but i'm sure it is not too important/ relevant in F1).

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My Top 5 drivers of all times:
1) Prost/ Schumacher
3) Fangio
4) Lauda
5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"

To be honest Lewis is better then Alonso. Wheres Alonso need No1 status, team mate to be handicapped, penaltilized and move over when needed while Lewis does not need this treatment. Personally i feel there is too much Alonso overhyping, please stop that nonsense

Th best car did not matter in Hungry 2012. The two Lotusses where faster in racetrim then the McLaren mate

Lol, compare him to Alonso and Vettel. Lewis is head and shoulder better than these two who need special treatment, especially Alonso. There is nothing to suggest that Alonso is a the best driver because he is not

How do you know? All Lewis had to do was manage the gap. With overtaking difficult he never had to truly show the cars full potential, just keep enough ahead.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Where was the other Mclaren?
Lotus was the fastest & the best car there, but Hamilton was the best driver, like at Abu Dhabi, Singapore, USA
There were equal good or better cars, but the driver made the difference.
Davidson was asked at Abu Dhabi where McLaren suddenly found the time to be so fast, Davidson pointed on Hamilton, and said "It's him( Hamilton) .
A driver can make the diverence at nearly equal cars.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

So if a driver is in a team with the best car, he should join a smaller team to prove himself? Great!!! HRT should be brought back, then ALonso, Hami, Vettel, Kimi and button should line up outside their doors for a chance to be their driver!!!
Its not Vettel's fault that RBR is the best car, and he is in the best car coz he deserved to be!!!! SO yes he is amongst the greats of F1.

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KIMI: Yeah,Winning feels good.But I am not the type of guy to jump up and down and rub it in everyone's face.

Stuck behind a Williams due to a track you can't over take on because of shit strategy before the pitstop in clean air Jenson was catching Lewis. So either Button was faster than Lewis in clean air OR the McLaren was up there with best car. Kimi couldn't pass Lewis so Lewis never had to fully open out the McLaren.

In the USA could you really say the McLaren wasn't the best car? Look What Button done coming from something like 16th.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Fry's statement, whilst perhaps along the lines of some of his other silly comments - is indeed correct. The majority of knowledgeable F1 fans would have Hamilton and Alonso as their drivers if they suddenly became owners of a major F1 team with limitless finances! Of course, Vettel is there too - and truly deserves his praise, I do think he is one of the current top drivers and virtually on a par with LH and FA - in truth if you were to say FA and LH are 100% - SV would be 99.9% - based on demonstrated capability.
But Fry's point that he really has to prove himself in a slower car is also valid. I don't think the odd occassion of recovery drive from the back really counts - what counts is being in say, the 3rd fastest car but getting it consistently on the podium for example - as per the efforts of FA this year - sure some of it was luck (as was some SV's finishes!) but the consistency was there - and and overall that Ferrari was pretty average compared to Macca and RBR.
If this season had been run (with the same 'car' finsihing results) with FA in SV's seat and vice versa - we would all be saying how SV was now the complete driver! So what is to disagree about?

Vettel is already a level higher than the two you mention.
If they have the urge to prove themselves against him , then they should seek to join Vettels team - not the other way round.

Even more so , because they keep crying about Newey mobiles , so that way they will get a chance to ride a Newey car too - LOL.

This is the normal way you go about any sport. If someone is at the top , you aim to reach that summit.

Right now , Vettel is on that summit , not the other two "forum" greats !

Talk about Alonso all you want. But dont include Vettel in that bracket - He is on a different planet when it comes to pressure cooker scenarios.

The odd thing is Hamilton is the only driver NOT to have raced in a mid-field team or lower team among the three.

Oddly too for the half a season he didn't have a top car he also didn't win. He only won when McLaren caught up in the Double diffuser stakes.

Where as Alonso and Vet have both done their time in mid-field cars AND both won in them. Vet in the STR and Alonso in the Renault in Japan '08. Kimi too won the WDC in what was considered to be the slower car that year.

Truth is this is just BAR/Honda/Brawn/Merc annual sound bite. It's kinda been tradition since they said JV would win in their first year. Ironically the only time they didn't give the whole this is our year final part needed etc etc routine was the year they actually won.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

And how on earth was Alonso going to catch Button?

The Ferrari clearly didn't have the pace to keep up with the McLarens.

However, if it was heavy rain in Sao Paolo I would have expected the McLarens to drop back at an alarming rate and Alonso to win. Have a look back at Silverstone Q3 & Germany Q3.

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"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

Well, it was wet enough for Vettel to overcome car problems (self-inflicted or not, that's not the issue, the car was damaged and the engine power was dialed down) and make up a huge amount of times in a ridiculous short number of laps.
It was also wet enough for Alonso to go off-track two times.

Seeing Massa drive, it does seem Alonso wasn't his usual self in Sao Paulo.

I don't think that was going to be the case. McLaren's biggest problems were with inters (remember Malaysia when Jenson couldn't get heat into them?) and the Ferrari (well, Alonso, I mean. Massa was being a ballerina) dominated the field. The cars in Brazil had already changed massively and the McLaren wasn't awful in the rain.

I'm not gonna go on about Vettel. It will divert attention away from the point I'm trying to make. I'll stick to the guys that had the straightforward race.
Yes, it was wet enough to go off, but it was still intermediate - where the McLaren was a handy car & Button excels. There was no way in hell Alonso was gonna catch Button, unless the rain intensified IMO.


Wrong way round. The McLaren was handy on the inters, as evidenced by Q2 times in Hockenheim. They were atrocious on full wets.
Obviously the cars had changed by Sao Paulo, but I don't think they had changed massively enough to close up 2 or 3 secs in full wet conditions (which was roughly how much slower McLaren were than Ferrari in Silvertone Q3 & Hockenheim Q3).

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"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

Your right let Hammy and Fonzo come to Vettel. I bet Fonzo will bring his 6 tenths with him if he joins

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Pity Vettel is head and shoulders above both of them when it comes to winning in the best car

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In Interlagos, he won it 3 times
"And that's the man that can't race! Sebastian Vettel can only win from the front apparantly, I don't think so, that was amazing!"
14/11/10 Miracle
9/10/11 Double
25/11/12 Treble

So, the way I see it, Nick Fry has an opinion &, as they say, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. I'm just not sure why that should mean that certain fans of drivers he praised or otherwise should feel the necessity to put down other drivers. I am an Alonso fan & have been since he first started racing in F1 &, sure, I was hugely disappointed at the end of the race in Brazil that he lost the championship by just 3 points but not once have I ever thought of saying that Vettel didn't deserve to win the Championship or that he only won it because he had the best car or that he is not as talented as Alonso etc. Every driver that has won a Championship has deserved it & every driver that has made it into F1 is talented, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

I would agree with good ol Nicky but Alonso 's drives in Brazil , US and Korea left a bit too much to be desired for him to be considered automatic great !

Had he won - now that would have been a story and he would have shown that he transcended the car. As it happened he didnt when he had the ability and a chance to. No shame in being slower than the teammate in the last 3 crucial races for a normal driver but for an all time great driver , its a no no

That's a fine point actually, and one that is seldom made. If you ARE going to supply a good car, how could you want anyone else in it?

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Maybe Fry didn't miss the point that Vettel was slightly weaker during the first half of the '12 season than his team mate Webber.

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Yup. Except he wasn't. Unless you translate 3 races to "the first half of the season".

He was. He was struggling against Webber and only during the 2nd half he left Webber into dust and made the points gap after Belgian GP.

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Shakes head, if you can't work that one out

Not by Luca di Montezemolo though.
http://www.f1zone.net/news/montezemolo- ... eat/17237/

Armchair Expert, what an epic fail.