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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Nick Fry is fried..i could care less what this guy says


Last edited by F246 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:47 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
What seperates Alonso, Hamilton and i would say Kimi is they can win when the car isn't the best. Vettel still has to prove that yet, Jenson 100% can't and also other drivers would struggle.

Again, Vettel has proven that. Sadly the fact that he ended up on a team who's lead engineer is unfairly given all the credit when the fact is Red bull wasn't fairy cakes until Vettel came on board. That's something that it seems Vettel will have to unfairly endure until he proves he's a winner post Newey. The fact is he has just as much to do with Red Bull's successes as does Newey.

To clarify on both Alonso, Raikkonen AND Hamilton, they both won their championships while driving a car that was among the best but the cars were not the very best. '05 & '06 Ferrari and Renault were closely matched and in 2007 & 2008 the McLaren and Ferrari were dead nuts to one another and the final standings show just how so which says in plain black and white the cars driven to the championship were indeed not the very best in the field. It came down to the drivers and in 2008 at least, I think Massa outperformed Hamilton by the slightest edge in securing the best possible position when it counted and Hamilton was lucky Toyota made such a huge mistake to gift him the position he otherwise would have struggled to take and snatch the championship from Massa's clutches… barely.

Still highly competitive and ultra close though which is the point of this post.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:50 pm 
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For sure Alonzo and Hamilton are among the top three drivers, in fact they're 2 and 3 in that order. Vettel took a bent car from last to contention in 2 of the last 3 races, one of them in the rain! I'm tired of people saying that the Ferrari was an inferior car thus Alonzo was more deserving. What a load. Massa could have easily passed him had he not been given team orders! In my opinion, this was the best F1 season in history, and was won, by a slim margin, by the best team and the best driver, period. Next year's a new season but, once again, this situation will be repeated.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:52 pm 
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the incubus wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
What seperates Alonso, Hamilton and i would say Kimi is they can win when the car isn't the best. Vettel still has to prove that yet, Jenson 100% can't and also other drivers would struggle.

Again, Vettel has proven that. Sadly the fact that he ended up on a team who's lead engineer is unfairly given all the credit when the fact is Red bull wasn't fairy cakes until Vettel came on board. That's something that it seems Vettel will have to unfairly endure until he proves he's a winner post Newey. The fact is he has just as much to do with Red Bull's successes as does Newey.

To clarify on both Alonso, Raikkonen AND Hamilton, they both won their championships while driving a car that was among the best but the cars were not the very best. '05 & '06 Ferrari and Renault were closely matched and in 2007 & 2008 the McLaren and Ferrari were dead nuts to one another and the final standings show just how so which says in plain black and white the cars driven to the championship were indeed not the very best in the field. It came down to the drivers and in 2008 at least, I think Massa outperformed Hamilton by the slightest edge in securing the best possible position when it counted and Hamilton was lucky Toyota made such a huge mistake to gift him the position he otherwise would have struggled to take and snatch the championship from Massa's clutches… barely.

Still highly competitive and ultra close though which is the point of this post.


Massa was lucky MadMax gifted him the win at Spa 2008 etc, etc

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Same thing would have happened if someone else cut a section of track and gained an advantage as a result. It was the right call. Massa was the best in 2008 by a slim margin IMHO.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:06 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:06 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
I agree with Hamilton and Alonso as the best drivers, but I would also include Vettel. Vettel was also great. He did reasonably good job in second part of 2008 then in 2011 he showed that he can dominate and in 2012 he showed that he can win WDC in not the fastest car and fight against the odds (Abu Dhabi and Brazil were one of his best races in his career). In Abu Dhabi he onece again showed that he isn't crash kid anymore. In Brazil he raced with extremely high pressure, everything that could go wrong went wrong and expect for start and first lap he didn't make any mistakes. He made absolute maximum in damaged car in wet conditions and won the title. We will never decide who is better: Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel, but Vettel is certainly one of at least 3 best drivers currently in F1.


He did have the best car and the best team. Yes, the McLaren was faster but so what? No reability, botched pitstops - these things matter. Hugely.

And what did these races show? In Abu Dhabi he hit Senna (?) to damage his front wing, then hit the DRS board. He was passing 90% of the field with ease and was much faster than anyone but Hamilton (back to the reability of the McLaren). He was extremely lucky with the second SC allowing him to pass Button (he was on 8 laps younger options compared to Button's primes).
In Brazil he ended Senna's and Perez' races. The Toro Rossos made him no problem whatsoever and so did not MSC. Again, extremely lucky to be in the race after his mistake.

I absolutely agree that he is one of the 3 best drivers out there, I really do. He has the one-lap speed, the race craft, the instincs and all but he's blessed, that boy. Brilliant car and huge amount of luck, that's why in many people's eyes Hamilton and Alonso are considered better (rightfully or not).


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:08 pm 
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the incubus wrote:
Same thing would have happened if someone else cut a section of track and gained an advantage as a result. It was the right call. Massa was the best in 2008 by a slim margin IMHO.

..and gave the advantage back again, until Donelly & Mosley changed the rules some hours after the race, and changed the result, too.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Hamilton has almost zero experience dealing with pressure..when its on him and fighting for WDC.,well bar his rokie year


2008 was very indicative of what Hamilton is like when he needs to deliver under pressure....he presses wrong buttons and gets trapped in sand boxes,please! ..and dont tell me its the team again!

So i say hold your horses before u compare him to Alonso or Vettel for that matter,but then again Nick Fry has been making dumb comments since i can remember


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:25 pm 
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F246 wrote:
Hamilton has almost zero experience dealing with pressure..when its on him and fighting for WDC.,well bar his rokie year


2008 was very indicative of what Hamilton is like when he needs to deliver under pressure....he presses wrong buttons and gets trapped in sand boxes,please! ..and dont tell me its the team again!

So i say hold your horses before u compare him to Alonso or Vettel for that matter,but then again Nick Fry has been making dumb comments since i can remember

nah, Hamilton never won any championship before :uhoh:
Knows nothing about pressure.....driving at McLaren against WDCs at 4 years,
Here you see he presses no button when he loses drive
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8 ... tube&type=

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:57 pm 
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mds wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
The redbull was the best car overall in 2012. Abu Dhabi he nearly took out riccardo and Brazil he swiped senna and those are his best races :?


Racing incidents (T4 Brazil) happen. It's how Vettel dealed with the conditions that made his race remarkable.

Take Spa, what negatives are you going to find for Vettels race there?


Hands up mate at spa he was very good.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:15 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.


Thats the 2005 season summed up. Kimi had the fastest car but with reliability problems and Fernando was conistent and won the title.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:52 am 
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Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

The fastest car isn't the best car.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:13 am 
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Zblogger wrote:
I think the point I would add to this is who could beat Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery out of the current grid.
I think no one on the current grid could match Alonso over say 3/4 seasons accept Hamilton (in the same car)
I think no one on the current grid could match Hamilton over say 3/4 seasons accept Alonso (in the same car).

I think until Alonso & Hamilton go head to head over 3/4 seasons its difficult to know which one will come out on top.

My gut feeling Hamilton would come out on top due to his sheer raw speed in qualifying and starting higher up the grid in most races.


Lewis is a lot of things, but he isn't the most consistent. Except in two seasons ('07 and '12), where i was genuinely impressed by him, i found him and his approach a bit lackadaisical, but that is my opinion, from observations on his time in F1 (didn't follow him in gp2 etc, but i'm sure it is not too important/ relevant in F1).

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:54 am 
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To be honest Lewis is better then Alonso. Wheres Alonso need No1 status, team mate to be handicapped, penaltilized and move over when needed while Lewis does not need this treatment. Personally i feel there is too much Alonso overhyping, please stop that nonsense


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:57 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

The fastest car isn't the best car.


Th best car did not matter in Hungry 2012. The two Lotusses where faster in racetrim then the McLaren mate


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:03 am 
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F246 wrote:
Hamilton has almost zero experience dealing with pressure..when its on him and fighting for WDC.,well bar his rokie year


2008 was very indicative of what Hamilton is like when he needs to deliver under pressure....he presses wrong buttons and gets trapped in sand boxes,please! ..and dont tell me its the team again!

So i say hold your horses before u compare him to Alonso or Vettel for that matter,but then again Nick Fry has been making dumb comments since i can remember


Lol, compare him to Alonso and Vettel. Lewis is head and shoulder better than these two who need special treatment, especially Alonso. There is nothing to suggest that Alonso is a the best driver because he is not


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:11 am 
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Jim wrote:
F246 wrote:
Hamilton has almost zero experience dealing with pressure..when its on him and fighting for WDC.,well bar his rokie year


2008 was very indicative of what Hamilton is like when he needs to deliver under pressure....he presses wrong buttons and gets trapped in sand boxes,please! ..and dont tell me its the team again!

So i say hold your horses before u compare him to Alonso or Vettel for that matter,but then again Nick Fry has been making dumb comments since i can remember


Lol, compare him to Alonso and Vettel. Lewis is head and shoulder better than these two who need special treatment, especially Alonso. There is nothing to suggest that Alonso is a the best driver because he is not



:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:15 am 
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Jim wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

The fastest car isn't the best car.


Th best car did not matter in Hungry 2012. The two Lotusses where faster in racetrim then the McLaren mate


How do you know? All Lewis had to do was manage the gap. With overtaking difficult he never had to truly show the cars full potential, just keep enough ahead.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:18 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

The fastest car isn't the best car.

Where was the other Mclaren?
Lotus was the fastest & the best car there, but Hamilton was the best driver, like at Abu Dhabi, Singapore, USA
There were equal good or better cars, but the driver made the difference.
Davidson was asked at Abu Dhabi where McLaren suddenly found the time to be so fast, Davidson pointed on Hamilton, and said "It's him( Hamilton) .
A driver can make the diverence at nearly equal cars.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:21 am 
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So if a driver is in a team with the best car, he should join a smaller team to prove himself? Great!!! HRT should be brought back, then ALonso, Hami, Vettel, Kimi and button should line up outside their doors for a chance to be their driver!!!
Its not Vettel's fault that RBR is the best car, and he is in the best car coz he deserved to be!!!! SO yes he is amongst the greats of F1.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:30 am 
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Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
When a driver wins in a car that is not the fastest, its because others ahead have made mistakes, been victims of crashes, or had a reliability failure. No driver can magically make a car faster than it is - if its suddenly faster than its competitors, its the best car on that day.

Or the other driver drove incredibly well, like Hamilton at Hungary 2012, where Lotus was clearly faster in the race.

The fastest car isn't the best car.

Where was the other Mclaren?
Lotus was the fastest & the best car there, but Hamilton was the best driver, like at Abu Dhabi, Singapore, USA
There were equal good or better cars, but the driver made the difference.
Davidson was asked at Abu Dhabi where McLaren suddenly found the time to be so fast, Davidson pointed on Hamilton, and said "It's him( Hamilton) .
A driver can make the diverence at nearly equal cars.


Stuck behind a Williams due to a track you can't over take on because of fairy cakes strategy before the pitstop in clean air Jenson was catching Lewis. So either Button was faster than Lewis in clean air OR the McLaren was up there with best car. Kimi couldn't pass Lewis so Lewis never had to fully open out the McLaren.

In the USA could you really say the McLaren wasn't the best car? Look What Button done coming from something like 16th.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:49 am 
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Fry's statement, whilst perhaps along the lines of some of his other silly comments - is indeed correct. The majority of knowledgeable F1 fans would have Hamilton and Alonso as their drivers if they suddenly became owners of a major F1 team with limitless finances! Of course, Vettel is there too - and truly deserves his praise, I do think he is one of the current top drivers and virtually on a par with LH and FA - in truth if you were to say FA and LH are 100% - SV would be 99.9% - based on demonstrated capability.
But Fry's point that he really has to prove himself in a slower car is also valid. I don't think the odd occassion of recovery drive from the back really counts - what counts is being in say, the 3rd fastest car but getting it consistently on the podium for example - as per the efforts of FA this year - sure some of it was luck (as was some SV's finishes!) but the consistency was there - and and overall that Ferrari was pretty average compared to Macca and RBR.
If this season had been run (with the same 'car' finsihing results) with FA in SV's seat and vice versa - we would all be saying how SV was now the complete driver! So what is to disagree about?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:04 am 
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diablof1 wrote:
Look Vettel is young maybe one day he will challenge Alonso/Hamilton by joining one of there teams.


Vettel is already a level higher than the two you mention.
If they have the urge to prove themselves against him , then they should seek to join Vettels team - not the other way round.

Even more so , because they keep crying about Newey mobiles , so that way they will get a chance to ride a Newey car too - LOL.

This is the normal way you go about any sport. If someone is at the top , you aim to reach that summit.

Right now , Vettel is on that summit , not the other two "forum" greats !


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:07 am 
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Jim wrote:
F246 wrote:
Hamilton has almost zero experience dealing with pressure..when its on him and fighting for WDC.,well bar his rokie year


2008 was very indicative of what Hamilton is like when he needs to deliver under pressure....he presses wrong buttons and gets trapped in sand boxes,please! ..and dont tell me its the team again!

So i say hold your horses before u compare him to Alonso or Vettel for that matter,but then again Nick Fry has been making dumb comments since i can remember


Lol, compare him to Alonso and Vettel. Lewis is head and shoulder better than these two who need special treatment, especially Alonso. There is nothing to suggest that Alonso is a the best driver because he is not


Talk about Alonso all you want. But dont include Vettel in that bracket - He is on a different planet when it comes to pressure cooker scenarios.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:31 am 
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The odd thing is Hamilton is the only driver NOT to have raced in a mid-field team or lower team among the three.

Oddly too for the half a season he didn't have a top car he also didn't win. He only won when McLaren caught up in the Double diffuser stakes.

Where as Alonso and Vet have both done their time in mid-field cars AND both won in them. Vet in the STR and Alonso in the Renault in Japan '08. Kimi too won the WDC in what was considered to be the slower car that year.

Truth is this is just BAR/Honda/Brawn/Merc annual sound bite. It's kinda been tradition since they said JV would win in their first year. Ironically the only time they didn't give the whole this is our year final part needed etc etc routine was the year they actually won.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:24 am 
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Bentrovato wrote:
Alonso is also terrific but in Sao Paolo, it was Massa who was excelling. Alonso needed one more place and he couldn't find it.

And how on earth was Alonso going to catch Button?

The Ferrari clearly didn't have the pace to keep up with the McLarens.

However, if it was heavy rain in Sao Paolo I would have expected the McLarens to drop back at an alarming rate and Alonso to win. Have a look back at Silverstone Q3 & Germany Q3.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:35 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Alonso is also terrific but in Sao Paolo, it was Massa who was excelling. Alonso needed one more place and he couldn't find it.

And how on earth was Alonso going to catch Button?

The Ferrari clearly didn't have the pace to keep up with the McLarens.


Well, it was wet enough for Vettel to overcome car problems (self-inflicted or not, that's not the issue, the car was damaged and the engine power was dialed down) and make up a huge amount of times in a ridiculous short number of laps.
It was also wet enough for Alonso to go off-track two times.

Seeing Massa drive, it does seem Alonso wasn't his usual self in Sao Paulo.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:35 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Alonso is also terrific but in Sao Paolo, it was Massa who was excelling. Alonso needed one more place and he couldn't find it.

And how on earth was Alonso going to catch Button?

The Ferrari clearly didn't have the pace to keep up with the McLarens.

However, if it was heavy rain in Sao Paolo I would have expected the McLarens to drop back at an alarming rate and Alonso to win. Have a look back at Silverstone Q3 & Germany Q3.


I don't think that was going to be the case. McLaren's biggest problems were with inters (remember Malaysia when Jenson couldn't get heat into them?) and the Ferrari (well, Alonso, I mean. Massa was being a ballerina) dominated the field. The cars in Brazil had already changed massively and the McLaren wasn't awful in the rain.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:53 am 
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mds wrote:
Well, it was wet enough for Vettel to overcome car problems (self-inflicted or not, that's not the issue, the car was damaged and the engine power was dialed down) and make up a huge amount of times in a ridiculous short number of laps.
It was also wet enough for Alonso to go off-track two times.

Seeing Massa drive, it does seem Alonso wasn't his usual self in Sao Paulo.

I'm not gonna go on about Vettel. It will divert attention away from the point I'm trying to make. I'll stick to the guys that had the straightforward race.
Yes, it was wet enough to go off, but it was still intermediate - where the McLaren was a handy car & Button excels. There was no way in hell Alonso was gonna catch Button, unless the rain intensified IMO.

VDV23 wrote:
I don't think that was going to be the case. McLaren's biggest problems were with inters (remember Malaysia when Jenson couldn't get heat into them?) and the Ferrari (well, Alonso, I mean. Massa was being a ballerina) dominated the field. The cars in Brazil had already changed massively and the McLaren wasn't awful in the rain.

Wrong way round. The McLaren was handy on the inters, as evidenced by Q2 times in Hockenheim. They were atrocious on full wets.
Obviously the cars had changed by Sao Paulo, but I don't think they had changed massively enough to close up 2 or 3 secs in full wet conditions (which was roughly how much slower McLaren were than Ferrari in Silvertone Q3 & Hockenheim Q3).

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:00 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
Look Vettel is young maybe one day he will challenge Alonso/Hamilton by joining one of there teams.


Vettel is already a level higher than the two you mention.
If they have the urge to prove themselves against him , then they should seek to join Vettels team - not the other way round.

Even more so , because they keep crying about Newey mobiles , so that way they will get a chance to ride a Newey car too - LOL.

This is the normal way you go about any sport. If someone is at the top , you aim to reach that summit.

Right now , Vettel is on that summit , not the other two "forum" greats !


:lol:

Your right let Hammy and Fonzo come to Vettel. I bet Fonzo will bring his 6 tenths with him if he joins ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Pity Vettel is head and shoulders above both of them when it comes to winning in the best car

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:09 pm 
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So, the way I see it, Nick Fry has an opinion &, as they say, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. I'm just not sure why that should mean that certain fans of drivers he praised or otherwise should feel the necessity to put down other drivers. I am an Alonso fan & have been since he first started racing in F1 &, sure, I was hugely disappointed at the end of the race in Brazil that he lost the championship by just 3 points but not once have I ever thought of saying that Vettel didn't deserve to win the Championship or that he only won it because he had the best car or that he is not as talented as Alonso etc. Every driver that has won a Championship has deserved it & every driver that has made it into F1 is talented, otherwise they wouldn't be there.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:10 pm 
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I would agree with good ol Nicky but Alonso 's drives in Brazil , US and Korea left a bit too much to be desired for him to be considered automatic great !

Had he won - now that would have been a story and he would have shown that he transcended the car. As it happened he didnt when he had the ability and a chance to. No shame in being slower than the teammate in the last 3 crucial races for a normal driver but for an all time great driver , its a no no


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:34 pm 
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joshb wrote:
Pity Vettel is head and shoulders above both of them when it comes to winning in the best car

That's a fine point actually, and one that is seldom made. If you ARE going to supply a good car, how could you want anyone else in it?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:32 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
I would agree with good ol Nicky but Alonso 's drives in Brazil , US and Korea left a bit too much to be desired for him to be considered automatic great !

Had he won - now that would have been a story and he would have shown that he transcended the car. As it happened he didnt when he had the ability and a chance to. No shame in being slower than the teammate in the last 3 crucial races for a normal driver but for an all time great driver , its a no no


Maybe Fry didn't miss the point that Vettel was slightly weaker during the first half of the '12 season than his team mate Webber.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:39 pm 
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RaisinChips wrote:
F1yer wrote:
I would agree with good ol Nicky but Alonso 's drives in Brazil , US and Korea left a bit too much to be desired for him to be considered automatic great !

Had he won - now that would have been a story and he would have shown that he transcended the car. As it happened he didnt when he had the ability and a chance to. No shame in being slower than the teammate in the last 3 crucial races for a normal driver but for an all time great driver , its a no no


Maybe Fry didn't miss the point that Vettel was slightly weaker during the first half of the '12 season than his team mate Webber.


Yup. Except he wasn't. Unless you translate 3 races to "the first half of the season".


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:02 pm 
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mds wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
F1yer wrote:
I would agree with good ol Nicky but Alonso 's drives in Brazil , US and Korea left a bit too much to be desired for him to be considered automatic great !

Had he won - now that would have been a story and he would have shown that he transcended the car. As it happened he didnt when he had the ability and a chance to. No shame in being slower than the teammate in the last 3 crucial races for a normal driver but for an all time great driver , its a no no


Maybe Fry didn't miss the point that Vettel was slightly weaker during the first half of the '12 season than his team mate Webber.


Yup. Except he wasn't. Unless you translate 3 races to "the first half of the season".


He was. He was struggling against Webber and only during the 2nd half he left Webber into dust and made the points gap after Belgian GP.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
What seperates Alonso, Hamilton and i would say Kimi is they can win when the car isn't the best. Vettel still has to prove that yet, Jenson 100% can't and also other drivers would struggle.


But yet Jenson was able to win when Lewis couldn't.

What does that say ;)


Shakes head, if you can't work that one out


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
From Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104880 :

Quote:
Fry reckons Hamilton is in the same category as Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso when it comes to winning with a car that is not the class of the field.

He believes world champion Sebastian Vettel is yet to prove that despite three titles in a row.

"Certainly in my view, Lewis and Fernando Alonso are the two best drivers," he added. "I'd caveat that by saying Sebastian Vettel may well be in that group, but he's always had the best car, and he's got to prove it, in my mind
.

"Certainly Fernando this year, when the Ferrari has not been the best car by any stretch of the imagination, has still done an exceptional job.

"And I think Lewis is still in that category of being a driver you could give not quite the best car and he could still win races, whereas most of the other drivers in the Formula 1 field will probably win the race if you give them the best car."


Sentiment shared by most people, I would say.


Not by Luca di Montezemolo though.
http://www.f1zone.net/news/montezemolo- ... eat/17237/

Armchair Expert, what an epic fail.


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