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'em blasted Germans.
It is WWIII 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Still WWII 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
I believe they're great! 42%  42%  [ 44 ]
I believe MS is great! 24%  24%  [ 25 ]
I believe SV is great! 13%  13%  [ 13 ]
I believe both are over-rated 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 104
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:53 pm 
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I am half German and half British, but live in Britain mostly, I can tell you allot of people love Vettel here and the ones that don't like him does not relate to his nationality at all.

Bringing up because he's German the British don't like him is Racism, and is bringing things back from the war and Racism is not allowed on the forum.

If you look at the comments on the Daily Mail F1 columns, there have been derogatory comments about "those German drivers" bordering on the ridiculous. But I agree with what you are saying in principle.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:57 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
Aman wrote:
A bit off-topic, but does anyone know (or tell me where I can find) the number of wins by German F1 drivers since Michael Schumacher burst onto the scene?

Make that since Spa 1991, what % of races have been won by German drivers and how does this compare to other nationalities since?

Just curious about the impact Schumacher M and his success made on the sport and the effect it had on bringing young German drivers like Vettel into F1.

Apart from these two, I imagine guys like HH Frentzen and R Schumacher had a dozen wins between them contributing to the %.....

We have also had quite a few other German drivers....like Sutil, Hulkenberg, Rosberg, and Glock.
Any idea where German drivers rank in terms of no. of starts compared to other nationalities since Schumacher's first race????

Right, I'll give you the wins since Schumi's debut.

M Schumacher 91
Vettel 26
R Schumacher 6
Frentzen 3
Rosberg 1
TOTAL 127 (or 126 if you consider Rosberg a Finn)

I make it 403 races, including Spa 1991 since Schumi's debut. That makes it a 31.5% success rate. When you consider however that all but 10 victories were from Schumacher or Vettel, or only 36 not from Schumi, it doesn't look as impressive. For race starts, I won't bother too much as Rosberg was probably more influenced by his father and only the current generation are likely to have entered the sport influenced by Michael.

Back to stats, before the Schumi era there were only 12 wins from German born drivers (Rindt 6, von Trips 2, Mass 1), or 3 from German registered drivers. All were from a similar era, same as Ralf, HH and (at a stretch) Nico Rosberg. I'm sure Schumi's and Vettel's influences will continue, but discount them and we've had two generations of German GP winners and domination has only come from two drivers.


Thanks for that summary, appreciated.
To me it does appear as if Schumacher's success helped promote the sport in Germany - helping to identify new talent like Vettel, Hulk, Sutil etc. (not saying they would not have been spotted if Schumacher was not successful).

Also - that 31.5% success rate is incredible - especially when considering the bulk of it is by 2 drivers.....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:32 am 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
Quote:
I am half German and half British, but live in Britain mostly, I can tell you allot of people love Vettel here and the ones that don't like him does not relate to his nationality at all.

Bringing up because he's German the British don't like him is Racism, and is bringing things back from the war and Racism is not allowed on the forum.

If you look at the comments on the Daily Mail F1 columns, there have been derogatory comments about "those German drivers" bordering on the ridiculous. But I agree with what you are saying in principle.


The Daily Mail is pretty much a barometer of... the sort of people who read the Daily Mail.

There aren't words in the dictionary to describe that sort of person, so I won't try.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:33 am 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I've always wondered how much of the "hating" is because they are German.

Quite a lot IMO. In case of Vettel especially, a lot of British people hate him not only because he is a German, but gatecrashed into what many were hoping to be a Hamilton era.

PS: I am Indian and so neutral. ;)


None of my friends seem to like F1, that's why I spam this forum.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:45 am 
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Eva09 wrote:
Zekenwolf wrote:
Quote:
I am half German and half British, but live in Britain mostly, I can tell you allot of people love Vettel here and the ones that don't like him does not relate to his nationality at all.

Bringing up because he's German the British don't like him is Racism, and is bringing things back from the war and Racism is not allowed on the forum.

If you look at the comments on the Daily Mail F1 columns, there have been derogatory comments about "those German drivers" bordering on the ridiculous. But I agree with what you are saying in principle.


The Daily Mail is pretty much a barometer of... the sort of people who read the Daily Mail.

There aren't words in the dictionary to describe that sort of person, so I won't try.

I'm American and I read the Daily Mail because it is a blast. Some of those articles are a riot, and often the comments have nothing to do with the subject of the article.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:22 am 
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Jomox wrote:
I am half German and half British, but live in Britain mostly, I can tell you allot of people love Vettel here and the ones that don't like him does not relate to his nationality at all.

Bringing up because he's German the British don't like him is Racism, and is bringing things back from the war and Racism is not allowed on the forum.

I don't know mate... been following F1 for 2 decades now, but haven't seen this kind of hate for any other drivers of any nationality. I think most of the people who've been following F1 for longer, they'll agree if Schumacher or Vettel were anything but German, or were even driving British machinery, they'd be held in better regard than how they get treated now. Well, there's certainly very strong case for discrimination against very successful German F1 drivers, but it isn't racial...

I started my career in a BPO, where most of my interactions were with Britishers, and it was more than pleasant for the most part. There were some numpties too, yes with racial hatred strongly present in their speech, but tell me a country which is devoid of such numpties? Anyhoo, the thing is i understand and recognize the sporting nature of the British folk (well most of them are), which is why this phenomenon is more baffling to me, and hence the thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:39 am
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Aman wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
Aman wrote:
A bit off-topic, but does anyone know (or tell me where I can find) the number of wins by German F1 drivers since Michael Schumacher burst onto the scene?

Make that since Spa 1991, what % of races have been won by German drivers and how does this compare to other nationalities since?

Just curious about the impact Schumacher M and his success made on the sport and the effect it had on bringing young German drivers like Vettel into F1.

Apart from these two, I imagine guys like HH Frentzen and R Schumacher had a dozen wins between them contributing to the %.....

We have also had quite a few other German drivers....like Sutil, Hulkenberg, Rosberg, and Glock.
Any idea where German drivers rank in terms of no. of starts compared to other nationalities since Schumacher's first race????

Right, I'll give you the wins since Schumi's debut.

M Schumacher 91
Vettel 26
R Schumacher 6
Frentzen 3
Rosberg 1
TOTAL 127 (or 126 if you consider Rosberg a Finn)

I make it 403 races, including Spa 1991 since Schumi's debut. That makes it a 31.5% success rate. When you consider however that all but 10 victories were from Schumacher or Vettel, or only 36 not from Schumi, it doesn't look as impressive. For race starts, I won't bother too much as Rosberg was probably more influenced by his father and only the current generation are likely to have entered the sport influenced by Michael.

Back to stats, before the Schumi era there were only 12 wins from German born drivers (Rindt 6, von Trips 2, Mass 1), or 3 from German registered drivers. All were from a similar era, same as Ralf, HH and (at a stretch) Nico Rosberg. I'm sure Schumi's and Vettel's influences will continue, but discount them and we've had two generations of German GP winners and domination has only come from two drivers.


Thanks for that summary, appreciated.
To me it does appear as if Schumacher's success helped promote the sport in Germany - helping to identify new talent like Vettel, Hulk, Sutil etc. (not saying they would not have been spotted if Schumacher was not successful).

Also - that 31.5% success rate is incredible - especially when considering the bulk of it is by 2 drivers.....

Even more impressive when you just look at 1991-2006 when Schumacher won 35.3% of races and between 2007-2012 Vettel has won 23.4% of the races. If Vettel continues at a similar rate, I still honestly believe he'll become the first driver with 100 wins and 10 WDCs. He may never have quite as dominant a season as last year again though.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:30 am 
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ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Probably not relevant but there were a lot of German GP winners in pre F1 days.
Carraciolla, Lang, von Brauchitsch, Stuck, Rosemeyer Von Delius, Muller etc come to mind.
Also not sure how Beloff would have performed if he had lived.

Agreed, but that was when Auto Union and Mercedes Benz had clearly better cars and they almost exclusively hired German drivers as per Nazi orders (Richard Seaman being a notable exception).

After the war, Germany was rebuilding and Merc came back to Motorsport and F1, but pulled out after the 1955 Le Mans accident. Audi have never returned to 'F1' since the formula was formed and until Schumi arrived German drivers have been more interested in sports cars. Ironically it was down to Mercedes' desire to return to F1 and the Swissman who ran their World Sportscar team that Schumacher got his break in F1 and reignited German domination. Michael 'thanked' Mercedes by returning for his second stint in the formula before retiring.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:06 pm 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Probably not relevant but there were a lot of German GP winners in pre F1 days.
Carraciolla, Lang, von Brauchitsch, Stuck, Rosemeyer Von Delius, Muller etc come to mind.
Also not sure how Beloff would have performed if he had lived.

Agreed, but that was when Auto Union and Mercedes Benz had clearly better cars and they almost exclusively hired German drivers as per Nazi orders (Richard Seaman being a notable exception).

After the war, Germany was rebuilding and Merc came back to Motorsport and F1, but pulled out after the 1955 Le Mans accident. Audi have never returned to 'F1' since the formula was formed and until Schumi arrived German drivers have been more interested in sports cars. Ironically it was down to Mercedes' desire to return to F1 and the Swissman who ran their World Sportscar team that Schumacher got his break in F1 and reignited German domination. Michael 'thanked' Mercedes by returning for his second stint in the formula before retiring.




There were a couple of other notable exceptions, Nuvolari, Varzi & Fagioli come to mind.
After the war there were at least 20 German F1 drivers none of who had much success with the exception Von Tripps & Rindt who drove with an Austrian license. Mass did win a race.
I still think the Winklehock's were the only 3 brothers to drive in F1.

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