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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
montyinct wrote:
Zoue wrote:
montyinct wrote:
The best driver currently on the grid is Lewis Hamilton
Why? It's because he never had #1 status which Alonso and Vettel enjoy( no matter what Webber is made to believe, when push come to shove, he doesn't have a chance) in their teams, beat 2time world champion in his rookie year.

Webber has a chance; he's just not good enough to take it. If he was faster than Vettel he'd have won a title or two by now. he has as much opportunity as Seb


You say Webber has a chance, he's just not good enough, so what Red Bull did? They picked Vettel over him, they backed one driver over the other. Mclaren should've done the same, they should've backed Hamilton over Button who is slow. Hamilton would've been 2 or3 time WDC, instead they wasted their energy on Button.

If Webber is not good enough( which I agree with) then he shouldn't be able to out-qualify Vettel-who is supposedly one of the best-so many times this year. That's Newey's car for you.

There's a difference between being not good enough and no good at all. He's clearly a fast driver and a proven race winner; he's just too inconsistent and unable to compete satisfactorily with Vettel on track in the long term. The point is he has an equal chance to Vettel to get his car on the podium but doesn't always make the most of the opportunities he has. It has nothing to do with Vettel being number one in the team and everything to do with Mark's performances.


I hear you, however I never said that he's not good at all.

He is inconsistent, and RB recognise that, they don't treat him like a #2 driver, they let things develop, and then it's easier to deal with things, the driver combo works very well for them, Mark scores solid points for the team, and he's out of the championship 2/3rd of the way, and he doesn't bother Vettel.

Having said all of that, let's not kid ourselves, he is#2 at RB.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:47 pm 
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It's Sebastian Vettel, WDC and WCC 2010-2012.
Anything else is pure opinions, F1 is a points game.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:42 pm 
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montyinct wrote:
The best driver currently on the grid is Lewis Hamilton
Why? It's because he never had #1 status which Alonso and Vettel enjoy( no matter what Webber is made to believe, when push come to shove, he doesn't have a chance) in their teams, beat 2time world champion in his rookie year.

Unbelievably quick qualifier, Alonso isn't, Vettel is, but Webber beat him many times even though he is 35 average driver.

Hamilton is just so exciting to watch, whether he's in the lead or in the midfield, there is something about his driving that just commands your attention, Alonso is close, Vettel is boring, and always in the best car no matter what some people say, that car is fundamentally good, since 2009 always has been, those comeback drives, anyone could have done them, the other cars don't compare, they are slow.

So for me Hamilton is the best, then Alonso.

Let me see the others team up with other WDCs, then we can talk.

I think Lewis is the fastest and probably the most naturally gifted.

But that doesn't mean the best.

In a spec series, Lewis hands down. In F1, Alonso.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:49 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
It's Sebastian Vettel, WDC and WCC 2010-2012.
Anything else is pure opinions, F1 is a points game.


To that I respond with the Villeneuve conundrum - both of them. Your line of thinking suggests that during 1996 and 1997 Jacques Villeneuve was the best driver on the grid, as he scored the most points on aggregate over those two seasons. Does this sound foolish?

It also suggests that Gilles Villeneuve, a man that so many announce as one of the greatest of all time, was as much a great as Felipe Massa. He was beaten to the title by his team-mate in 1979 and was being beaten by Pironi when he died. This is surely not the showing of a great driver.

This whole topic is based on opinion, as most topics are, but some opinions carry more strength than those that look only at the figures and determine the outcome. This is a sport with an infinite number of variables and not a standardised test.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:55 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
montyinct wrote:
The best driver currently on the grid is Lewis Hamilton
Why? It's because he never had #1 status which Alonso and Vettel enjoy( no matter what Webber is made to believe, when push come to shove, he doesn't have a chance) in their teams, beat 2time world champion in his rookie year.

Unbelievably quick qualifier, Alonso isn't, Vettel is, but Webber beat him many times even though he is 35 average driver.

Hamilton is just so exciting to watch, whether he's in the lead or in the midfield, there is something about his driving that just commands your attention, Alonso is close, Vettel is boring, and always in the best car no matter what some people say, that car is fundamentally good, since 2009 always has been, those comeback drives, anyone could have done them, the other cars don't compare, they are slow.

So for me Hamilton is the best, then Alonso.

Let me see the others team up with other WDCs, then we can talk.

I think Lewis is the fastest and probably the most naturally gifted.

But that doesn't mean the best.

In a spec series, Lewis hands down. In F1, Alonso.


And I respect your opinion :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
AnRs wrote:
It's Sebastian Vettel, WDC and WCC 2010-2012.
Anything else is pure opinions, F1 is a points game.


To that I respond with the Villeneuve conundrum - both of them. Your line of thinking suggests that during 1996 and 1997 Jacques Villeneuve was the best driver on the grid, as he scored the most points on aggregate over those two seasons. Does this sound foolish?

It also suggests that Gilles Villeneuve, a man that so many announce as one of the greatest of all time, was as much a great as Felipe Massa. He was beaten to the title by his team-mate in 1979 and was being beaten by Pironi when he died. This is surely not the showing of a great driver.

This whole topic is based on opinion, as most topics are, but some opinions carry more strength than those that look only at the figures and determine the outcome. This is a sport with an infinite number of variables and not a standardised test.


Fair, but there's so much more going on with Vettel than those you mention, when asked if he is the best his answer was that he can be compared to the best and that he still is learning. I like his attitude, his professionalism, and hi no nonsese. Compared to Lewis and Alonso who are followed by different xGates and attitude problems I would easily picked Sebastian right now over them.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Scott Speed also writes really sweet notes to his wife.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:02 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Toby. wrote:
AnRs wrote:
It's Sebastian Vettel, WDC and WCC 2010-2012.
Anything else is pure opinions, F1 is a points game.


To that I respond with the Villeneuve conundrum - both of them. Your line of thinking suggests that during 1996 and 1997 Jacques Villeneuve was the best driver on the grid, as he scored the most points on aggregate over those two seasons. Does this sound foolish?

It also suggests that Gilles Villeneuve, a man that so many announce as one of the greatest of all time, was as much a great as Felipe Massa. He was beaten to the title by his team-mate in 1979 and was being beaten by Pironi when he died. This is surely not the showing of a great driver.

This whole topic is based on opinion, as most topics are, but some opinions carry more strength than those that look only at the figures and determine the outcome. This is a sport with an infinite number of variables and not a standardised test.


Fair, but there's so much more going on with Vettel than those you mention, when asked if he is the best his answer was that he can be compared to the best and that he still is learning. I like his attitude, his professionalism, and hi no nonsese. Compared to Lewis and Alonso who are followed by different xGates and attitude problems I would easily picked Sebastian right now over them.


How they come across out of the car or how there fans are or what music they like etc etc has nothing to do with who is the best driver.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:18 am 
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And who has the best skills behind the wheel has nothing to do with who wins at the end of the season either. The head game, the ability to lead a team, HAVING a team that can be led and do the job you need, having the car, etc. is all just as, if not more, influential.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:43 am 
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lamo wrote:
How they come across out of the car or how there fans are or what music they like etc etc has nothing to do with who is the best driver.


No, I'm with you on that, but there is so much more than that has happened and I don't Believe I have to update anyone.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
AnRs wrote:
It's Sebastian Vettel, WDC and WCC 2010-2012.
Anything else is pure opinions, F1 is a points game.


To that I respond with the Villeneuve conundrum - both of them. Your line of thinking suggests that during 1996 and 1997 Jacques Villeneuve was the best driver on the grid, as he scored the most points on aggregate over those two seasons. Does this sound foolish?

It also suggests that Gilles Villeneuve, a man that so many announce as one of the greatest of all time, was as much a great as Felipe Massa. He was beaten to the title by his team-mate in 1979 and was being beaten by Pironi when he died. This is surely not the showing of a great driver.

This whole topic is based on opinion, as most topics are, but some opinions carry more strength than those that look only at the figures and determine the outcome. This is a sport with an infinite number of variables and not a standardised test.


People who die tend to have the James Dean effect.

I would probably rank Gilles alongside Massa and Jacques Villeneuve tbh. Nowhere near Senna or someone like that.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:43 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Scott Speed also writes really sweet notes to his wife.

Image


:uhoh:
























:uhoh:


















:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
People who die tend to have the James Dean effect.

I would probably rank Gilles alongside Massa and Jacques Villeneuve tbh. Nowhere near Senna or someone like that.

I find it funny that you said Senna

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:53 am 
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@OP

Honest answer: Don't know, can't tell, probably never will.

Gun to my head: On balance, in F1, as it is now, Alonso.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Here's a Xmas present idea for you...

http://mashable.com/2012/12/22/lobster-iphone-case/

Ian Astbury of the Cult would love it ;)


p.s. Dan Ricciardo. Why? Because he creamed his teammate in out and out speed, he rarely made a mistake, and if he was in a Red Bull I think he would more than challenge Vettel..

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:03 am 
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obviously vettel, he has more titles than any other current driver


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:00 am 
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Thought I should post this here. It's a page from one of my books.

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