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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:14 am 
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BBC wrote:
Ferrari say they would choose Sebastian Vettel over Lewis Hamilton if they needed to appoint a new lead driver.

The company's president, Luca Di Montezemolo, said he believed Ferrari's current driver Fernando Alonso was the best in Formula 1.

But the Italian added that Vettel, 25, "would be very good for us".

*** puts popcorn in microwave, opens beer, sits back ***

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:27 am 
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I agree. Outright speed isn't everything, it's how you use it. I personally think Vettel utilises his talents better than Hamilton. That's why one has a single World Title and the other three.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:37 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
I agree. Outright speed isn't everything, it's how you use it. I personally think Vettel utilises his talents better than Hamilton. That's why one has a single World Title and the other three.


If you read on it says "one difference-he's younger". And Benson is known for typing absolute dribble, I wouldn't believe a word of the article. I agree they both have brilliant outright speed, but Hamilton can utilise his speed just as well as Vettel, it's often the team that's let him down. And Hamilton was known for chocking under pressure when he was younger.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:59 am 
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Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:09 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
I agree. Outright speed isn't everything, it's how you use it. I personally think Vettel utilises his talents better than Hamilton. That's why one has a single World Title and the other three.


That's BULL!, and you know that. Did not Vettel cracked under pressure in Canada 2011 ?, and why Lewis still has One WDC, what for silly statement is that ?. Lewis has been let down in China 2007 and could easy won the WDC in 2010 had the car not broke down that often and do we need to talk about 2012 right ?, your whole comment is absolute BULL stop the nonsense. Lewis is heads and shoulders above Lucky Vettel and Alonso


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:14 am 
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jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"


Nonsense mate, when Vettel drives in the pack he can do nothing but i agree when he starts from pole he has to do nothing and wins the easy fashion and he has a team that does anything for him


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:15 am 
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Jim wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"


Nonsense mate, when Vettel drives in the pack he can do nothing but i agree when he starts from pole he has to do nothing and wins the easy fashion a d has a team that does anything for him

That's your opinion. I have mine. It takes a great driver and a great car to get pole and lead from the front. If it were easy, Webber would have done it. But as I said that's my opinion, I'll let you carry on with your own opinion my friend.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 am 
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Fat Albert, I think you know yourself that Di Montezemelo chooses Vettel because he's younger but you want to stirr up the place


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:54 am 
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This means lewis is never going to drive for ferrari while Di Montezemolo is in control. Seb is going one day to ferrari to replace or join fonzo.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:07 pm 
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It's never too early for mind games. It's rarely won races and it's wasted this time.

There's always room for a mis-quote, like the original title of this thread. The truly deluded can draw such things out into amazing conclusion like "Hamilton will never drive Ferrari, Vetel is destined to go there".

If we didn't have Vetel/Hamilton/Alonso threads how boring would the word be?

Don't forget, you heard it here today, Alsonso is moving to Hawaii with his new squeeze.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:12 pm 
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I just read this article it did not say Vettel is better as such, just that he would be their choice out of the two, mostly because he is younger I think... but carry on as you always do in this place


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Did anybody read the comment? The deciding factor is age and he is probably right.

Your title comparison is nonsense however Laura, Vettel has won 3 title but had the best overall package 4 seasons. 2009 he blew the title with mistakes in the first half of the year.

Lewis one title and never had the best package, 2007 and 2008 Ferraris are clearly superior (especially with hindsight).

If we are going on title counts, since Vettel joined the sport it is SV 3, JB, 1, LH 1, KR 1, FA 0. Which again would be ridiculous to use as a measure of the field.

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Last edited by lamo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:14 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Jim wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"


Nonsense mate, when Vettel drives in the pack he can do nothing but i agree when he starts from pole he has to do nothing and wins the easy fashion a d has a team that does anything for him

That's your opinion. I have mine. It takes a great driver and a great car to get pole and lead from the front. If it were easy, Webber would have done it. But as I said that's my opinion, I'll let you carry on with your own opinion my friend.


These are facts what i stated so don't give me that my opinion/your opinion mate


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Jim wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Jim wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"


Nonsense mate, when Vettel drives in the pack he can do nothing but i agree when he starts from pole he has to do nothing and wins the easy fashion a d has a team that does anything for him

That's your opinion. I have mine. It takes a great driver and a great car to get pole and lead from the front. If it were easy, Webber would have done it. But as I said that's my opinion, I'll let you carry on with your own opinion my friend.


These are facts what i stated so don't give me that my opinion/your opinion mate

Definition of fact
noun
A thing that is known or proved to be true:
i.e. the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas

mass noun
A body of fact(facts) information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article:
even the most inventive journalism peters out without facts, and in this case there were no facts
(the fact that) used to refer to a particular situation under discussion:
i.e. despite the fact that I’m so tired, sleep is elusive

mass noun
chiefly Law the truth about events as opposed to interpretation:
i.e. there was a question of fact as to whether they had received the letter

Ergo, you saying "when Vettel drives in a pack he can do nothing but when he starts from pole he has to do nothing and wins the easy fashion", is that really a fact, or an interpretation?
As far as I was aware, he has driven through the pack numerous times, has the most overtakes of the 2012 season, and actually sets fastets laps consistently when out in front, which takes some effort. So, please do tell me where your facts are.

Vettel is the Formula 1 2012 World Champion, that's a fact.
I don't like the fact that he is World Champion though, that's also a fact.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:43 pm 
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i think somebodys ego is being stroked for future reference, lol


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:47 pm 
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slide wrote:
i think somebodys ego is being stroked for future reference, lol


+1


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:48 pm 
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How wrong could that thread title be he said they would take vettel over Hamilton because he is young not saying because he is better.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:49 pm 
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I CALL TROLLING!!!! (via misleading thread title)

LDM said - ""Between all the drivers, Vettel and Hamilton could be perfect for Ferrari in the future, with one difference - Vettel is younger,"

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
If I was a fisherman I'd have had a good day...


:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:55 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
How wrong could that thread title be he said they would take vettel over Hamilton because he is young not saying because he is better.


That's not the only reason he would choose Vettel.
Quote:
"But if Alonso decided tomorrow to go to live in Hawaii with the girlfriend I have no doubt that for human and professional reasons [I would choose] Vettel. He would be very good for us.

"Vettel I like because he is not presumptuous. He wants to win but he is not arrogant. Michael [Schumacher] told me many years ago that coming from karts Vettel had the most potential of any young driver and he was right."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:58 pm 
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So is Luca admitting he likes younger men ?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:07 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Did anybody read the comment? The deciding factor is age and he is probably right.

Your title comparison is nonsense however Laura, Vettel has won 3 title but had the best overall package 4 seasons. 2009 he blew the title with mistakes in the first half of the year.

Lewis one title and never had the best package, 2007 and 2008 Ferraris are clearly superior (especially with hindsight).

If we are going on title counts, since Vettel joined the sport it is SV 3, JB, 1, LH 1, KR 1, FA 0. Which again would be ridiculous to use as a measure of the field.


2007 and 2008 McLaren where voted car off the year, "Ferraris are clearly superior " is pure b..
This sounds more like sour grapes, if you use your hindsight you will find many reasons to pick Sebastian instead of Lewis, easy.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
So is Luca admitting he likes younger men ?

:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
So is Luca admitting he likes younger men ?

Probably your best post in a Hamilton thread ever and easily the funniest post I have seen anywhere in a while :thumbup: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:35 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
lamo wrote:
Did anybody read the comment? The deciding factor is age and he is probably right.

Your title comparison is nonsense however Laura, Vettel has won 3 title but had the best overall package 4 seasons. 2009 he blew the title with mistakes in the first half of the year.

Lewis one title and never had the best package, 2007 and 2008 Ferraris are clearly superior (especially with hindsight).

If we are going on title counts, since Vettel joined the sport it is SV 3, JB, 1, LH 1, KR 1, FA 0. Which again would be ridiculous to use as a measure of the field.


2007 and 2008 McLaren where voted car off the year, "Ferraris are clearly superior " is pure b..
This sounds more like sour grapes, if you use your hindsight you will find many reasons to pick Sebastian instead of Lewis, easy.


The mclaren and ferrari were evenly matched in 2007 and 2008 ferrari had a slight advantage over mclaren.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:43 pm 
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diablof1 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
lamo wrote:
Did anybody read the comment? The deciding factor is age and he is probably right.

Your title comparison is nonsense however Laura, Vettel has won 3 title but had the best overall package 4 seasons. 2009 he blew the title with mistakes in the first half of the year.

Lewis one title and never had the best package, 2007 and 2008 Ferraris are clearly superior (especially with hindsight).

If we are going on title counts, since Vettel joined the sport it is SV 3, JB, 1, LH 1, KR 1, FA 0. Which again would be ridiculous to use as a measure of the field.


2007 and 2008 McLaren where voted car off the year, "Ferraris are clearly superior " is pure b..
This sounds more like sour grapes, if you use your hindsight you will find many reasons to pick Sebastian instead of Lewis, easy.


The mclaren and ferrari were evenly matched in 2007 and 2008 ferrari had a slight advantage over mclaren.


I disagree, 2007 and 2008 McLaren had 100 % reliability compared to Ferrari, only McLaren meltdown on 2007 made it possible for Kimi to take that title, even Renault and Piquet played in McLarens hands in 2008 for gods sake :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:49 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
diablof1 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
lamo wrote:
Did anybody read the comment? The deciding factor is age and he is probably right.

Your title comparison is nonsense however Laura, Vettel has won 3 title but had the best overall package 4 seasons. 2009 he blew the title with mistakes in the first half of the year.

Lewis one title and never had the best package, 2007 and 2008 Ferraris are clearly superior (especially with hindsight).

If we are going on title counts, since Vettel joined the sport it is SV 3, JB, 1, LH 1, KR 1, FA 0. Which again would be ridiculous to use as a measure of the field.


2007 and 2008 McLaren where voted car off the year, "Ferraris are clearly superior " is pure b..
This sounds more like sour grapes, if you use your hindsight you will find many reasons to pick Sebastian instead of Lewis, easy.


The mclaren and ferrari were evenly matched in 2007 and 2008 ferrari had a slight advantage over mclaren.


I disagree, 2007 and 2008 McLaren had 100 % reliability compared to Ferrari, only McLaren meltdown on 2007 made it possible for Kimi to take that title, even Renault and Piquet played in McLarens hands in 2008 for gods sake :-)


Point about reliability :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Luca only ever has Ferrari in mind, and it appears to me that he's talking about which driver would be "a better fit" for Ferrari.

Right now, definitely Alonso. Afterwards, definitely Seb.

The thought of Lewis in a Ferrari actually seems quite bizarre.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:55 pm 
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I actually find the most intriguing aspect of this is that Ferrari do now seem to have closed the door on pairing Alonso with Vettel. It wasn't all that long ago that Di Montezemolo was saying they could co-exist in the same team, speculation was running rampant that Vettel would be joining Ferrari in 2014, etc. Now we've had the quote about not wanting two roosters in the hen-house, as well as these quotes...

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:05 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
I agree. Outright speed isn't everything, it's how you use it. I personally think Vettel utilises his talents better than Hamilton. That's why one has a single World Title and the other three.

and the car plays absolutely no role, yes :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Fat Albert wrote:
BBC wrote:
Ferrari say they would choose Sebastian Vettel over Lewis Hamilton if they needed to appoint a new lead driver.

The company's president, Luca Di Montezemolo, said he believed Ferrari's current driver Fernando Alonso was the best in Formula 1.

But the Italian added that Vettel, 25, "would be very good for us".

*** puts popcorn in microwave, opens beer, sits back ***

And where is the part where he said Vettel is better?

Misleading thread title.

Don't make stuff up!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I actually find the most intriguing aspect of this is that Ferrari do now seem to have closed the door on pairing Alonso with Vettel. It wasn't all that long ago that Di Montezemolo was saying they could co-exist in the same team, speculation was running rampant that Vettel would be joining Ferrari in 2014, etc. Now we've had the quote about not wanting two roosters in the hen-house, as well as these quotes...

He's a weird one alright.

He wanted Alonso & Kubica together at Ferrari. IMO they were the two best drivers on the grid.
And now he says he doesn't want two top drivers in the team.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
I CALL TROLLING!!!! (via misleading thread title)

LDM said - ""Between all the drivers, Vettel and Hamilton could be perfect for Ferrari in the future, with one difference - Vettel is younger,"

:D :D :D

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Jim wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
I agree. Outright speed isn't everything, it's how you use it. I personally think Vettel utilises his talents better than Hamilton. That's why one has a single World Title and the other three.


That's BULL!, and you know that. Did not Vettel cracked under pressure in Canada 2011 ?, and why Lewis still has One WDC, what for silly statement is that ?. Lewis has been let down in China 2007 and could easy won the WDC in 2010 had the car not broke down that often and do we need to talk about 2012 right ?, your whole comment is absolute BULL stop the nonsense. Lewis is heads and shoulders above Lucky Vettel and Alonso

How about you calm down and respect other people's opinion. You're wrong, by the way. There are plenty of reasons why Seb has 3 WDCs and Lewis 1. And you don't need to put a full stop or comma after every question mark.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:17 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"

2010 &2012 Vettel made clearly more mistakes then Hamilton, but won the title.
Hamilton made no single mistake 2012 , Vettel quite some, but won the title, what do you think was the real reason for Vettels titles 2010 & 2012?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Jim wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Jim wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"


Nonsense mate, when Vettel drives in the pack he can do nothing but i agree when he starts from pole he has to do nothing and wins the easy fashion a d has a team that does anything for him

That's your opinion. I have mine. It takes a great driver and a great car to get pole and lead from the front. If it were easy, Webber would have done it. But as I said that's my opinion, I'll let you carry on with your own opinion my friend.


These are facts what i stated so don't give me that my opinion/your opinion mate


Just out of passing interest Jim, have you been watching the same races as the rest of us? Best car or not, performances like what Vettel did in Abu Dhabi are not "doing nothing." You seem to have a curious definition of a fact, seems it is defined by an uncorroborated opinion in your case. You seem upset that jammin has quoted real facts, not falsehoods, which are that Hamilton has made more driving errors than Vettel. Doesn't make him a bad driver, but it is a fact and one that I'm sure hasn't been lost on LDM.

I knew this would happen when LDM opened his mouth and dared to choose between the two golden boys. I will read with interest somebody who writes at length and with examples the relative merits of Vettel and Hamilton. I won't agree with someone who dismisses LDM's opinion with nothing more than "BULL!" when LDM has achieved a great deal in the sport and has worked with several of the best drivers.

Finally...I'm going to whisper this part in case anybody else hears it.....you can like them both you know :nod:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"

2010 &2012 Vettel made clearly more mistakes then Hamilton, but won the title.
Hamilton made no single mistake 2012 , Vettel quite some, but won the title, what do you think was the real reason for Vettels titles 2010 & 2012?

:thumbup:

Hamilton does not make anywhere near the same number of mistakes that people seem to credit him for.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Compare Alonso in 2007 to Massa in 2007.

Massa had three grand chelems in 2007 :lol: . 6 poles. Alonso had 2. (2012, he outqualified him 18-2)

I rate Massa lower than Alonso, the only thing that split them was DNFs. Massa 3, Alonso 1. When both finished it was equal.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:38 pm 
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In 2012 Hamilton was faultless on the track from what I've seen, but in previous years there is a good number of cumulative mistakes. Vettel has had some high profile ones but nevertheless fewer. Most of his mistakes were in Abu Dhabi this year!
I don't mean to say Hamilton is massively mistake prone, but he has made a few more, and more costly, mistakes in his career, which admittedly is longer than Vettel's also. Hamilton's my fave driver by the way, I think I wept inside somewhat with happiness when I met him.

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