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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:43 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
In 2012 Hamilton was faultless on the track from what I've seen, but in previous years there is a good number of cumulative mistakes. Vettel has had some high profile ones but nevertheless fewer. Most of his mistakes were in Abu Dhabi this year!
I don't mean to say Hamilton is massively mistake prone, but he has made a few more, and more costly, mistakes in his career, which admittedly is longer than Vettel's also. Hamilton's my fave driver by the way, I think I wept inside somewhat with happiness when I met him.


Vettel has had more. Two great drivers, but both had a fair share of inciden5w. Lewis has a knack of getting into trouble, only Vettel has an even greater one. His two recovery drives this year displaying that. Easy to stay out of trouble when cruising at the front, but put seb in the pack and he has trouble.

In 2008 and 2009 alone, Vettel retired 6 times through an accident or spin.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
And where is the part where he said Vettel is better?


Well, this comes very close:

Quote:
Michael [Schumacher] told me many years ago that coming from karts Vettel had the most potential of any young driver and he was right."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:56 pm 
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lamo wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
In 2012 Hamilton was faultless on the track from what I've seen, but in previous years there is a good number of cumulative mistakes. Vettel has had some high profile ones but nevertheless fewer. Most of his mistakes were in Abu Dhabi this year!
I don't mean to say Hamilton is massively mistake prone, but he has made a few more, and more costly, mistakes in his career, which admittedly is longer than Vettel's also. Hamilton's my fave driver by the way, I think I wept inside somewhat with happiness when I met him.


Vettel has had more. Two great drivers, but both had a fair share of inciden5w. Lewis has a knack of getting into trouble, only Vettel has an even greater one. His two recovery drives this year displaying that. Easy to stay out of trouble when cruising at the front, but put seb in the pack and he has trouble.

In 2008 and 2009 alone, Vettel retired 6 times through an accident or spin.

I can't be arsed going through checking all their mistakes haha, so I'll agree on the most important thing I think people should realise... like you said, two great drivers.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:01 pm 
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hittheapex wrote:

Finally...I'm going to whisper this part in case anybody else hears it.....you can like them both you know :nod:

Probably the most sage piece of advice I've seen here in a while. Well said.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:10 pm 
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lamo wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
In 2012 Hamilton was faultless on the track from what I've seen, but in previous years there is a good number of cumulative mistakes. Vettel has had some high profile ones but nevertheless fewer. Most of his mistakes were in Abu Dhabi this year!
I don't mean to say Hamilton is massively mistake prone, but he has made a few more, and more costly, mistakes in his career, which admittedly is longer than Vettel's also. Hamilton's my fave driver by the way, I think I wept inside somewhat with happiness when I met him.


Vettel has had more. Two great drivers, but both had a fair share of inciden5w. Lewis has a knack of getting into trouble, only Vettel has an even greater one. His two recovery drives this year displaying that. Easy to stay out of trouble when cruising at the front, but put seb in the pack and he has trouble.

In 2008 and 2009 alone, Vettel retired 6 times through an accident or spin.

If you want to get into their respective first two full seasons we might as well bring up a couple of Hamiltons bone headed mistakes. Like driving into the back of Kimi in the pitlane in Canada, or the time during a practice session (I don't remember where or what year, I'm sure someone will point it out) where Lewis was driving around off-line fiddleing with his steering wheel, then just comes back up to speed onto the track without looking and takes another driver out.

They're both good drivers, and they've both made some stupid mistakes, rarely however do you see either make the same one twice. That is why they're both at the top of the field, but some forum dwellers seem to always have to turn a blind eye toward the stupid things their driver of choice does, while hammering other drivers who do something similar.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
I CALL TROLLING!!!! (via misleading thread title)

LDM said - ""Between all the drivers, Vettel and Hamilton could be perfect for Ferrari in the future, with one difference - Vettel is younger,"

:D :D :D

younger by a whole 2 years :-?

As Hamilton says, if he ever joined Red Bull Vettel would have to get used to losing graciously and I don't think he's wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:47 pm 
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ONE MILLION PAGES!

Except Luca didn't actually say Vettel was better than HAmilton, just younger.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:07 pm 
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I was really hoping this whole forum would some how miss that article yesterday and spare us all another discussion of Lewis vs. Seb. Thanks for ignoring my christmas wish, Santa. You jerkface.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:13 pm 
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With Alonso staying 4 or 5 more years, I think it's rubish to talk about the next driver in line, so many stuff can happen, like Lewis winning 3 titles in a row, and then Monty will say that he want Lewis because he is mature.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Robot wrote:
With Alonso staying 4 or 5 more years, I think it's rubish to talk about the next driver in line, so many stuff can happen, like Lewis winning 3 titles in a row, and then Monty will say that he want Lewis because he is mature.



Do you think he will re-sign after 2015?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Better question, do you think Alonso will last 4 or 5 more years without a title in 2013? I can see equal chances of him wanting to leave, and Ferrari booting him.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:35 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Better question, do you think Alonso will last 4 or 5 more years without a title in 2013? I can see equal chances of him wanting to leave, and Ferrari booting him.

I don't see Ferrari booting him. He hasn't delivered a title for his first 3 years at Ferrari but no one of sound mind has ever suggested that this is down to Alonso's lack of ability. Ferrari know that they have the world's top driver at the moment and they also know that the lack of titles is primarily down to them failing to provide a fast enough car.

There is a possibility of him choosing to leave, but where to? I guess we don't know if the same teams will be at the front in 4-5 years time, but we can say that McLaren is a definite no-no after the 2007 episode and if Merc are a front-running team by that time then they will most likely be Hamilton's team and won't want to risk a repeat of 2007 by pairing Alonso with him again. RBR is only really an option if Vettel goes the other way. And lets not forget that by that time Alonso will be in his mid-thirties and would therefore not be an attractive long-term proposition.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:36 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
lamo wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
In 2012 Hamilton was faultless on the track from what I've seen, but in previous years there is a good number of cumulative mistakes. Vettel has had some high profile ones but nevertheless fewer. Most of his mistakes were in Abu Dhabi this year!
I don't mean to say Hamilton is massively mistake prone, but he has made a few more, and more costly, mistakes in his career, which admittedly is longer than Vettel's also. Hamilton's my fave driver by the way, I think I wept inside somewhat with happiness when I met him.


Vettel has had more. Two great drivers, but both had a fair share of inciden5w. Lewis has a knack of getting into trouble, only Vettel has an even greater one. His two recovery drives this year displaying that. Easy to stay out of trouble when cruising at the front, but put seb in the pack and he has trouble.

In 2008 and 2009 alone, Vettel retired 6 times through an accident or spin.

If you want to get into their respective first two full seasons we might as well bring up a couple of Hamiltons bone headed mistakes. Like driving into the back of Kimi in the pitlane in Canada, or the time during a practice session (I don't remember where or what year, I'm sure someone will point it out) where Lewis was driving around off-line fiddleing with his steering wheel, then just comes back up to speed onto the track without looking and takes another driver out.

They're both good drivers, and they've both made some stupid mistakes, rarely however do you see either make the same one twice. That is why they're both at the top of the field, but some forum dwellers seem to always have to turn a blind eye toward the stupid things their driver of choice does, while hammering other drivers who do something similar.


There first 35 races, as Seb did 8 races in 07 too. Only included DNFs as I am not sure about all other incidents for both drivers, I remember Lewis rear ending Alonso in Malaysia 08 for example.

Race ending mistakes in first 35 races for Lewis.
China 07 -Lewis dropped it in the pitlane entry.
Canada 08 - Crashed into Kimi in the pits, missing red light.

Ironically (moronically) both in the pit lane.

Race ending mistakes for Seb
Japan 07 - Accident - rear ended Webber during SC.
Australia 08 - Accdient
Bahrain 08 - Accident
Spain 08 - Accident
Britiain 08 - Spin
Australia 09 - Accident
Monaco 09 - Accident

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:45 pm 
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None of the above makes any difference if Sebastian stays where he is and wants nothing to do with Ferrari. It's really his choice in the end. I know he's said in the past that it's every young drivers goal to drive for Ferrari, but that's not a commitment. We'll see what happens.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:55 pm 
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j man wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Better question, do you think Alonso will last 4 or 5 more years without a title in 2013? I can see equal chances of him wanting to leave, and Ferrari booting him.

I don't see Ferrari booting him. He hasn't delivered a title for his first 3 years at Ferrari but no one of sound mind has ever suggested that this is down to Alonso's lack of ability. Ferrari know that they have the world's top driver at the moment and they also know that the lack of titles is primarily down to them failing to provide a fast enough car.

There is a possibility of him choosing to leave, but where to? I guess we don't know if the same teams will be at the front in 4-5 years time, but we can say that McLaren is a definite no-no after the 2007 episode and if Merc are a front-running team by that time then they will most likely be Hamilton's team and won't want to risk a repeat of 2007 by pairing Alonso with him again. RBR is only really an option if Vettel goes the other way. And lets not forget that by that time Alonso will be in his mid-thirties and would therefore not be an attractive long-term proposition.

I think Alonso could have won this year if he had been a tougher competitor, and driven on the edge more. His conservatism cost him. Playing it safe isn't enough.

And staying with a team that he can't win a title with is no better than moving to another that's not winning. If he's the man everyone says he is, no reason why he can't move to Lotus or Sauber or Force India or Lotus and win. A bigger concern for me would be leaving his systems engineer at Ferrari, because without those hooked up starts he wouldn't even have been in the hunt this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Change the title moron thats not what he said. The lengths these guys will go too bump his thread...pathetic

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:
Change the title moron thats not what he said. The lengths these guys will go too bump his thread...pathetic

You don't have to agree to other member's opinion, but what's this attitude for?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:39 pm 
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So he said Alonso is the best there is and he doesn't want the guy who beat Alonso to replace him in the future.

Makes sense that hahahhahaha


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:21 pm 
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mds wrote:
Haribo wrote:
And where is the part where he said Vettel is better?


Well, this comes very close:

Quote:
Michael [Schumacher] told me many years ago that coming from karts Vettel had the most potential of any young driver and he was right."

No it's very different.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:23 pm 
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f1madman wrote:
ONE MILLION PAGES!

Except Luca didn't actually say Vettel was better than HAmilton, just younger.

This!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:
Haribo wrote:
And where is the part where he said Vettel is better?


Well, this comes very close:

Quote:
Michael [Schumacher] told me many years ago that coming from karts Vettel had the most potential of any young driver and he was right."

No it's very different.


No actually as I understand it it's very, very close.

Saying someone has the most potential of a given group is saying you believe he could be the best later on. When LdM now says that statement was right... Well, if you're not agreeing it's very close, could you explain to me the enormous difference in meaning?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:35 pm 
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mds wrote:
Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:
Haribo wrote:
And where is the part where he said Vettel is better?


Well, this comes very close:

Quote:
Michael [Schumacher] told me many years ago that coming from karts Vettel had the most potential of any young driver and he was right."

No it's very different.


No actually as I understand it it's very, very close.

Saying someone has the most potential of a given group is saying you believe he could be the best later on. When LdM now says that statement was right... Well, if you're not agreeing it's very close, could you explain to me the enormous difference in meaning?

This is noway saying Vettel is better than, anyone else, because Schumacher saw him karting, did he see Hamilton there, too or other drivers? We don't know to wich group of drivers Schumacher referred back than.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:
Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:
Haribo wrote:
And where is the part where he said Vettel is better?


Well, this comes very close:

Quote:
Michael [Schumacher] told me many years ago that coming from karts Vettel had the most potential of any young driver and he was right."

No it's very different.


No actually as I understand it it's very, very close.

Saying someone has the most potential of a given group is saying you believe he could be the best later on. When LdM now says that statement was right... Well, if you're not agreeing it's very close, could you explain to me the enormous difference in meaning?

This is noway saying Vettel is better than, anyone else, because Schumacher saw him karting, did he see Hamilton there, too or other drivers? We don't know to wich group of drivers Schumacher referred back than.


He also said of any "young driver" having already defined Lewis as older who knows if he relates to them in the same age range and group. Lewis is 2 and a half years older than Vettel.

Vettel graduated from Karts in 2003
Lewis graduated from karts in 2000

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:04 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:

No actually as I understand it it's very, very close.

Saying someone has the most potential of a given group is saying you believe he could be the best later on. When LdM now says that statement was right... Well, if you're not agreeing it's very close, could you explain to me the enormous difference in meaning?

This is noway saying Vettel is better than, anyone else, because Schumacher saw him karting, did he see Hamilton there, too or other drivers? We don't know to wich group of drivers Schumacher referred back than.


He also said of any "young driver" having already defined Lewis as older who knows if he relates to them in the same age range and group. Lewis is 2 and a half years older than Vettel.

This getting a bit too far fetched , to say Montezemolo has said ( like the thread title insits) Vettel is better than Hamilton, because Montezemolo refers to Schumachers opinion he had given to Montezemolo about young drivers (the ones, he had seen) back at karting days.
We don't even know if Schumachers view even includes Hamilton, or to wich group of drivers he refers.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:09 pm 
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LdM has defined Lewis as older, we don't know if Schumacher did that when assessing the drivers capabilities.

To be honest, I don't care very much for that debate. I myself am undecided to who of both is the best, although I tend to think it's Vettel. But I like both.
I just happened to think it's more than just the age argument, and the statement I quoted hints in the direction of LdM thinking Vettel is the best (after Alonso).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:16 pm 
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mds wrote:
LdM has defined Lewis as older, we don't know if Schumacher did that when assessing the drivers capabilities.

To be honest, I don't care very much for that debate. I myself am undecided to who of both is the best, although I tend to think it's Vettel. But I like both.
I just happened to think it's more than just the age argument, and the statement I quoted hints in the direction of LdM thinking Vettel is the best (after Alonso).

I really don't care generally much about what Montezemolo says. He uses to say a lot of nonsense.
It was about the thread title, and what some media made out of his comments.
Montezemolo indeed said the difference between Vettel & Hamilton is the age,.
Quote:
"Between all the drivers, Vettel and Hamilton could be perfect for Ferrari in the future, with one difference - Vettel is younger,"

nothing more, and nothing less.
The rest is interpretation.

But to say LdM said Vettel is better than LH is simply incorrect.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:
LdM has defined Lewis as older, we don't know if Schumacher did that when assessing the drivers capabilities.

To be honest, I don't care very much for that debate. I myself am undecided to who of both is the best, although I tend to think it's Vettel. But I like both.
I just happened to think it's more than just the age argument, and the statement I quoted hints in the direction of LdM thinking Vettel is the best (after Alonso).

I really don't care generally much about what Montezemolo says. He uses to say a lot of nonsense.
It was about the thread title, and what some media made out of his comments.
Montezemolo indeed said the difference between Vettel & Hamilton is the age, nothing more, and nothing less.
The rest is interpretation.

But to say LdM said Vettel is better than LH is simply incorrect.


Agree entirely, especially on LdM talking BS most of the time.

He also said the one difference. Which literally means one and suggests no other differences..

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Wow.

Okay. So after reading the article. The key quote I picked out was

Quote:
"But if Alonso decided to go to live in Hawaii with the girlfriend, I have no doubt that for human and professional reasons [I would choose] Vettel. He would be very good for us


Those 3 key words make all the difference. He's saying, that he thinks that for FERRARI Vettel is better than Hamilton.

NOT

Vettel is better than Hamilton full stop.

You people either need to learn to read properly. Or learn to title a thread properly.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Great topic ... :? Why don't you start one that goes like: 'Why is sugar sweeter than candy?'
Maybe we can all boil it down to the scientific and microscopic difference between 'sugar cane and candy cane'... 8O You can earn yourself a planet f1 degree in 'how to keep everybody busy with topics that have no meaning for the survival of mankind - except for adding to their counter count of counting the time it takes to count time' - you have three seconds time to answer.... :]


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:28 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Haribo wrote:
mds wrote:
LdM has defined Lewis as older, we don't know if Schumacher did that when assessing the drivers capabilities.

To be honest, I don't care very much for that debate. I myself am undecided to who of both is the best, although I tend to think it's Vettel. But I like both.
I just happened to think it's more than just the age argument, and the statement I quoted hints in the direction of LdM thinking Vettel is the best (after Alonso).

I really don't care generally much about what Montezemolo says. He uses to say a lot of nonsense.
It was about the thread title, and what some media made out of his comments.
Montezemolo indeed said the difference between Vettel & Hamilton is the age, nothing more, and nothing less.
The rest is interpretation.

But to say LdM said Vettel is better than LH is simply incorrect.


Agree entirely, especially on LdM talking BS most of the time.

He also said the one difference. Which literally means one and suggests no other differences..

:)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:48 am 
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IMO the only place Vettel is better than Lewis is mentally.....

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:55 am 
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Luca's gone way up in my estimation 8) Well said, although to be fair it does go without saying, Vettel's a proven winner, whereas Hamiltons inconsistency see's him struggle against the likes of Vettel & Alonso, I believe if McLaren had either of those drivers in their team they'd have won the title this year :thumbup:

(Hamfans swimming pool and moaning and bellyaching Vettel had the best car etc cack excluded zzzzzz...)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:02 am 
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viariani wrote:
Luca's gone way up in my estimation 8) Well said, although to be fair it does go without saying, Vettel's a proven winner, whereas Hamiltons inconsistency see's him struggle against the likes of Vettel & Alonso, I believe if McLaren had either of those drivers in their team they'd have won the title this year :thumbup:

(Hamfans swimming pool and moaning and bellyaching Vettel had the best car etc cack excluded zzzzzz...)


Because Alonso and Vettel can magically overcome technical failures, paha, get a grip Viariani, the nonsense you spew about Lewis Hamilton is beyond ridiculous, it's borderline insane.

Anyway, your posts are becoming boring and somewhat predictable so I may as well put you on ignore.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:42 am 
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Haribo wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettel has made the most of any opportunity that has come his way. I would say that is the quality he possesses which Hamilton lacks, the ability to make the most of a situation. You could argue Hamilton has been let down by the team in 2007 and 2012, but he has been very known to make more mistakes than Seb, so yes you could argue that Vettel is better than Hamilton.

I personally think Hamilton has more raw ability in terms of pace and racecraft, and dislike Vettel. But Vettel is calculating and more measured in his approach, and it works perfectly.

Oh, and to lower my tone to something more akin to what everyone else will likely post... "Vettel's only better because he's got the best car. LULZ"

2010 &2012 Vettel made clearly more mistakes then Hamilton, but won the title.
Hamilton made no single mistake 2012 , Vettel quite some, but won the title, what do you think was the real reason for Vettels titles 2010 & 2012?


Easy. Because after every contingency was taken into account, the Vettel + RBR combination performed the best on the season.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:21 am 
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This season proved that Vettel is superior to Hammy. Some Hamilton fanboys just have a hard time accepting the truth. Vettel and Alonso are one league above the rest but seeing Hamilton performances in the past seasons, he is definitely not in the same category.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:25 am 
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El_Chuzalongo wrote:
This season proved that Vettel is superior to Hammy. Some Hamilton fanboys just have a hard time accepting the truth. Vettel and Alonso are one league above the rest but seeing Hamilton performances in the past seasons, he is definitely not in the same category.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:31 am 
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f1madman wrote:
ONE MILLION PAGES!

Except Luca didn't actually say Vettel was better than HAmilton, just younger.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:19 am 
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El_Chuzalongo wrote:
This season proved that Vettel is superior to Hammy. Some Hamilton fanboys just have a hard time accepting the truth. Vettel and Alonso are one league above the rest but seeing Hamilton performances in the past seasons, he is definitely not in the same category.

Maybe on your playstation.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
El_Chuzalongo wrote:
This season proved that Vettel is superior to Hammy. Some Hamilton fanboys just have a hard time accepting the truth. Vettel and Alonso are one league above the rest but seeing Hamilton performances in the past seasons, he is definitely not in the same category.

Maybe on your playstation.


this what a moron :lol:

@El_Chuzalongo should i refresh your memory?
Fernando Alonso: "Seb is not on the same level as Hamilton" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEzqCcF2mps
"Lewis wins when the car is good and when the car is not soo good"
""Hamilton is the only one who is capable of winning without having the best car"" http://www.marca.com/2012/09/12/en/more_sports/1347484613.html

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:25 pm 
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El_Chuzalongo wrote:
This season proved that Vettel is superior to Hammy. Some Hamilton fanboys just have a hard time accepting the truth. Vettel and Alonso are one league above the rest but seeing Hamilton performances in the past seasons, he is definitely not in the same category.


I would actually say that it's the other way around.

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