planetf1.com

So Alonso is praising the guy that beat him in the same machinery over the guy that he's in contention with for the WDC?

Wow, that's shocking. It MUST be true. He must be absolutely impartial and could absolutely not be playing mind games. Nope.

Alonso also referred to Vettel as "very complete", it was in one of the pre race shows in the 2nd half of the season iirc. Don't really see the big deal in drivers praising each other, these guys are just too close to find the overall best.

Remember that drivers haven't always seen what we have when they make comments regarding each other. They haven't watched the race from outside their own cockpit when they give comments on sunday. Some of them probably haven't watched the replay back even by the next race, if ever. They are okay authorities on whats happened immediately around them, but really they are the least educated about everything else. So take that into consideration when digesting their comments.

Just for an example, think back to Alonso's comments at Silverstone at the start of the weekend where he pointed out that he didn't understand what Michael and Mark were doing the week before in Valencia until after he watched the race back.

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fully agree. imo vettel is the best driver in f1 right now. you don't win 3 consecutive world titles by luck.

Mclaren had the best car this year yet vettel defied the odds and beat hamilton and alonso who held a 40 pt gap at one stage.

vettel is the most complete driver in f1, also one of the fastest and most reliable. Alonso isnt far behind as the second best though i admit

Paha, of course not, get a grip Moore and stop spewing nonsense, it's beyond ridiculous and borderline insane, (same gobby shite back at you, no need for it) Vettel has been plagued with alternator demons ending his races, yet his fans don't bang on about it, Alonso had an F1 car literally fly inches over his head ending his race there and then, I don't bang on about it (as a Fred fan) yet some Ham fans continually brew up fantasy scenarios to explain away his lack of multiple WDC's when others keep racking them up, now THAT's boring, I suggest you put those clowns on ignore. (I don't because it's like shooting fish in a barrel, the tin foil hat is still the seasons must have with some and it's a constant source of amusement) Anyway Ferrari don't buy into the amazing Lewis driver myth either it appears, they want Vettel too. Merry Christmas

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Spot on fella

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Some of you actually are starting too believe the misleading Thread title..keep believing

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HAMILTON/ALONSO/RAIKONNEN/VETTEL

I predict a long and prestigious future for you on this forum.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas

Vettel did not beat McLaren & Hamilton. McLaren beat themselves and robbed Hamillton any chance. It was more McLarens & Hamiltons loss theam RBR&Vettels win.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Would Hamilton want Ferrari? Maybe this question should be asked, too.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Is not that crazy to think that a triple world champion is better than Hamilton is it?

Hamilton had two good seasons in 2007 and 2008 but since then, he has failed to deliver. He has been beaten by Vettel and Alonso in the last 3 seasons. He has even finished behind Button and Webber.

Unlike Vettel and Alonso, Hamilton has never raced for a midfield team but somehow he is praised as a driver that can win without the fastest car

Hamilton is an incredible talented driver but you can't deny Vettel's accomplishments and the fact that he has got better results than Lewis.

You have not watched 2012 haven't you?
Hamilton was the driver wich made the least mistakes, Vettel & Alonso both make quite some, beat his team mate very clear had the most poles & would have had the most wins, too if not for McLarens failures.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Right... He beat his team mate by 2 points while Alonso and Vettel put 100+ to their teammates According to team principals, Lewis was the 3rd best driver last year.

Have you also watched 2011 season? It was the worst driving of any top driver in recent F1 history...

Thanks for saving me the trouble of making a "Hammy is overrated" thread that I've wanted to do for months

On a separate note but relating to the comments just before this - When you talk about teams beating themselves you have to consider the opponents' errors too. Red Bull made some big mistakes - the alternators, the fuel issue, not telling seb to let JB back thru in Hockenheim, plus all the errors made by the drivers, and for Mark that was a big # toward the end. Ferrari had a handful of poor-ish strategy calls, and a #2 who only produced points for part of the season. McLaren had some bad pit stops, a fueling mistake, some reliability failures, and a #2 who only produced points for part of the season.

RBR still clobbered both of these teams in the constructors - so even with mistakes they were strong enough to beat a near-perfect Ferrari team, and a McLaren team with the same TEAM struggles they had, but one "worse" driver for part of the season.

Then look at Lewis and Fernando vs. Sebastian. Just about everyone has said Lewis and Fernando drove flawlessly, and we've seen some clumsiness and outright mistakes from Sebastian. That means Lewis and Fernando at their best aren't enough to beat Sebastian at less than his best, because they can't make their teams do what Red Bull can. /soapbox

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^this. hamilton is vastly overrated. people are quick to try and forget 2011, but that year was the worst ive ever seen from a driver, couldnt for one second imagine drivers like vettel and alonso being that bad

OP is a lier?

I'd say Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are the top drivers on the current grid. If we're being brutally honest, Hamilton should have the 2007 and 2012 championship under his belt (maybe even 2010?) but, with a mixture of mistakes from himself and the team (look at 2012), he couldn't get any more championships.

In reply to 2011, all top drivers can and will have a bad season, it's inevitable. Some could argue that in Brazil 2012 Vettel had Webber, Vergne, Ricciardo and Schumacher to help him win that day.

Regarding Pacific Beach's comment, Button is a championship racer and Hamilton and Button are ALLOWED to race together, whilst Vettel and Alonso are number 1 drivers in their team, so looking at this, Hamilton and Button would both finish quite close to each other.

Vettel and Alonso dominated 2012, so off course Seb is a better choice than Lewis.

By that logic, Schumi is better than Fangio, Piquet is better than Clark and everyone is better than G. Villeneuve and Ronnie Peterson. Yeah, right. It's not a valid measuring stick for how good a driver is compared to others, there are a lot more factors to consider.


Without wanting to get into semantics, the only year Lewis didn't really deliver is 2011 (which was a pretty poor show by him). Every other year there have been a massive series of monumental cock-ups by the team.


*cough* 2009 *cough*


Lies, damned lies and statistics and all that...

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"Braver than a bullfighter with no knickers on!"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Worst you've ever seen from a driver? Two wins in a clearly inferior car and the only person to break the stranglehold that the "quicker than s**t through a goose" Red Bulls held on pole position (one of THE great quali laps BTW)? Granted he screwed up a few times but you're being more than a little hyperbolic when describing it as the worst drive.

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"Braver than a bullfighter with no knickers on!"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

I don't understand how that could possibly the worst drive by a driver anyone could have seen? Look at Grosjean this year, he was abysmal.. The way people go on about LH's 2011 season its as if he didn't win and crashed every race... People often forget he scored the only none red bull pole of the year and won 3 times in China, Germany and Abu Dhabi. Was also doing very well until Monaco and he tried an over-zealous manoeuvre on Maldonado and the Massa incident. Then obviously the Canada incident where both JB and LH admitted they were at fault. Obviously there was more, the spa, japan and india. But other than them incidents he didn't lose his speed or his winning ways.

And VettelMessi, you couldn't imagine drivers like Alonso or Vettel being that bad? Alonso's 2007 year wasn't anywhere near his best and Vettel's 09 was poor.

If Hamilton is vastly overrated it is by his fans, more so the extremists of his fans and please don't tell me some Alonso fans and some Vettel fans don't overrate their individual drivers, Its called being bias mate and we all have it in us.

The top tier is easily Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton with Jenson and Kimi biting at there heels. They're all very close and to name one or two as clear best just can't be done. And before you bring up your titles argument (More titles mean you are better...) it isn't the case, Stirling Moss is regarded as a true great and how many WDC's does he have again, oh thats right, 0. Same goes for Gilles Villenueve.

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Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes

He or she said 'worst drive of a top driver in recent history'. Grosjean is perhaps not considered a top driver by all. Hamilton is, but that is the conundrum because while he did put on one of the worst drives throughout a season for a top driver in recent history (unless you count Massa that same year, and I would not argue against that) - in the same sentence, Lewis is referred to as a top driver. Don't overlook that. Lewis had a bad season, but as pointed out, he still managed to do phenomenal things that season, and that is precisely because he is an authentic top driver.

That said, I would agree that one cannot judge Hamilton's overall ability and ranking based on his 2011 season and declare him below other drivers - just as you can't use 2007 alone and declare him above them all. It is the body of work that has to be judged. Clearly Hamilton is in the top tier group.

However, everyone has their own criteria. If the number of championships is a basis for a person's judgment, then Hamilton would legitimately fall behind. And so would Stirling and Giles. I wouldn't rank that way, but some do. Others hold Vettel lower because he has not had an 'inferior car' - but to me they are completely overlooking STRF days and races like the most recent Brazil 2012 where Vettel's car was damaged, set for qually, without radio 1/2 the race and began at the back under pressure for a championship. So I can't begin to understand the reasoning some use to discount such a performance in terms of driving the dickens out of a car that was inferior on the day, but they do. We could go driver by driver and do the same thing - everyone is never going to agree.

One last point, the media and pundits are a terrible guide.

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He actually said this...


Nothing to do with worst drive for a top driver in recent history. Which in turn if he had said that I would of agreed.

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Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes

Aren't people getting sick of these pissing contests already?

I was going to post something along these lines myself.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas

Not being funny but, at their core, isn't that what internet forums are? If it was just people sitting around going "Jolly good point, old boy" it might be a bit dull .

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"Braver than a bullfighter with no knickers on!"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Buddy i doubt you have seen the seasons, you are just new to F1 as a whole explain 2010, 2011 and some of 2012, and Vettel the most complete driver ?. Don't let me laugh, explain why Vettel could not qualify in to Q3 in China this year while his team mate could, explain that!

This

Explain how Lewis failed in 2010 and 2012 than, are you really that biased ?, and to be honest, i have never met a Hamilton hater in public, all behind their computer these anti Hamilton folks come with their biased opinion

yet the only time hamilton has ever won a title is when he was given clear No1 status. Funny how hamilton is head and shoulders above these two yet has been beaten by both for the past 3 years, you can try and use the dominant car arguement all you want for vettel ( despite the mclaren being the fastest in 2012) but ferrari certainly hasn't been as good as the mclaren throughout these 3 years.

thankfully vettel and alonso share 5 world titles between them and are the 2 most successful drivers currently in f1 so that proves my point aswell.

peace

So explain how did Lewis lost this years tittle and 2010, what did he wrong ?, explain it

he didnt get everything out of the car imo. at the start of the season redbull were struggling yet vettel kept himself in the hunt by maximising the points he could get. alonso likewise was never in the fastest car yet kept out of trouble and his consistant podiums looked like getting him an unlikely title. hamilton didnt do this, when things didnt go his way he threw tantrums and wasnt interested, i can remember 1 race where he said over the radio ' whats the point of racing' or words to that effect instead of getting on with his job. then there was all the twitter and false button problems.
DNF's happen to every driver, vettel lost 2 race wins alone through no fault of his own, noone mentions them though. no all of hamiltons problems were out of his control. he didnt have to fight so hard with maldonado when it was obvious he was faster, nor did he have to run wide when he picked up that astro turf. im sure some of these other supposed ' machanical failures were in some way caused by his aggressive driving to an extent aswell.

I think Jim is Sabrina in a cloak...

Hamilton isn't perfect. Neither is Vettel. But Vettel didn't win 3 WDC on the bounce by chance. He won them fair and square. F1 is a team sport after all, Vettel and Red Bull have been the best for three seasons. End of. McLaren and Hamilton have thrown away a lot, McLaren 2012 and Hamilton threw away 2010 when he collided with Webber in Singapore and Massa in Italy. Who knows perhaps Vettel will throw 2013 away, only time will tell.

Hamilton fans will have to accept that Vettel is a 3 time WDC though. That's just a simple fact. Some people believe Vettel to be a slightly more complete driver than Hamilton. They are allowed and you'll have to accept that as well, there is evidence to back up the claim just as there is evidence for Hamilton fans to suggest Hamilton is the faster driver perhaps.

No one will ever completely agree on everything but the people in this thread who blindly believe their driver is the best and perfect just because need a reality check.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

in witch race ?

You mean the lucky safty car in Australia ?, or the mess he made in Malaysia ? or that Vettel could not qualify in to Q3 in China ?, what nonsense are you talking about ?

Why do you as a Vettel fan keep mentioning Alonso ?, do you want the backing of the Alonso supporters or what ? so in witch race Lewis did not get the most of the car ?

Atleast Lewis did not caused a 100.000000 Dollar fine, construction points to be taken away from both McLaren and Renault like Alonso did, in Germany he said we should give up because the car was badly damaged, Lewis only stayed outside because he was gathering information for Button about the hard tires and that's what you call a team player something Vettel and Alonso don't know about and later Lewis was told to come inside because it to dangerous to drive around with a badly damaged car said by Jonathan Neele on Sky F1, so what is your point exactly .
So what ?, i bet you did not hear about the twitter afair Alonso wanted to put online about Ferrari right ?


so what ?, Lewis lost more then Three race win so what's your point again ?
So explain why could both Grosjean and Raikonen overtake Lewis at the exact same corner without crashing and Maldonado not ? and as far the atro turf was a adding to an alreading existing problem. All your bias has been debunked mate, Checkmate

If you honestly believe Alonso was the sole factor causing McLaren to be fined then there are no other words to describe you other than an idiot.

When exactly did Renault get their constructors points taken away?

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Forza Fernando !

ofcourse Alonso was the reason, he blackmailed the team right ? and from who did he get the emails from in the first place ?
Even worse mate, Renault F1 team was disqualified from Formula 1 only the be reversed by a ''French'' court

Okay. In the case of Renault. I believe you're talking about crashgate? If that's the case, then prove to me what Alonso had to do with it. If it's not about crashgate, then please be specific.

Where did Alonso get the information to blackmail the team? From within the team itself. If there wasn't information to be had, Alonso could not have done anything with it. The whole spy scenario is alot deeper than that. We only know certain version of events, but crucially, not Alonso's.

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Forza Fernando !

I case of Renault, don't tell me Alonso did not knew about the plan mate, seriously stop with that!

and the McLaren part, even if it was from within, where did Alonso took it from or who gave it to him, Alonso was the one who started talking right ?

Ah sorry - I was reading the quote attached to that one (Pacific Beach). I agree with ya.

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