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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
lamo wrote:
When predicting the weather, Hindsight is rather handy. But foresight is what can win you a race.

Surprised nobody mentioned why the team did not pit Hamilton (an incorrect decision but one based on logic), the team were seeing if more rain was going to blow in and needed a short time to evaluate the radar. Lewis was also outside of a pit window.

All of this talk of drivers just pitting, the track was drying but more rain was expected. Drivers do not have access to the radar and have to rely on the team in this situation to know what is best.

Hamiltons pace was fine it was only in the last 2 laps he lost around 3 seconds in each and then HAD to pit.

The team wanted the WDC won in this race, you don't want to let it go to the last race as we saw that year and in many recent years anything can happen then.
This meant finishing ahead of Alonso who was running in 3rd and if Mclaren had pitted Hamilton early that could have put Alonso in front of him depending on what tyre they put on Hamiltons car and how the weather evolved.

Hindsight is a beautiful but rather useless thing. The fact is, I can never remember another car being allowed to go down to the canvas they should have pitted him as soon as Kimi was taking a second per second out of him. Hamilton still made a driver error, his only significant one all year. Mclaren seemed to focus on winning that race rather than the title. A mentality that completely flipped in Brazil 2008 and nearly cost them another title.

The tyre was down to the carcass, there's no way it would have lasted more than a few more laps anyway so waiting for a rain shower was pointless. The tyres would never have lasted long enough to make the rain shower and McLaren should have pitted him the minute the carcass because visible, that is a dangerous tyre. That they didn't was incredibly stupid and commentators and pundits said as much as it was happening. No one could believe they were risking it.


:thumbup:

Plus as Senna showed in donny being on the right tyres at the right time is king.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:08 pm 
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DeeMclarenAce wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
That post reminds me so much of my Scott Speed diatribe that I can't tell if its real or not.


I know i shouldn't of, but its a slow post X-mas weekend.
So I decided to call a fire mission to civilize the barbarians' thought process.

Although you have my sympathy, wouldn't have spent much time on Scott Speed clearly an "American driver" with no business in Formula 1.
Brings me to wonder if Redbull is still spending money trying to find an American that can fit in the cockpit of an F1 and drive fast??

Ermm...my Scott Speed diatribe was a parody of every rabid, desperate, unreasonable, and close minded fan of whichever driver.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:28 pm 
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DeeMclarenAce wrote:
Brings me to wonder if Redbull is still spending money trying to find an American that can fit in the cockpit of an F1 and drive fast??


Trust me, there are some freakingly talented racers in the US. The world of Formula One can be comfortable in the knowledge that guys like Rowdy, Brad, and Denny are quite happy in the lucrative world of NASCAR.

My mind boggles at the concept of this guy going to open wheelers and Formula One. Ultra-quick, ultra-talented, and as nasty as a rattler on a bad day.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:33 pm 
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I think we have some good drivers here who could slot into the F1 grid...unfortunately I don't think any of the kids currently on track toward that are good enough. I would have liked to see what Tommy Milner would have done if he had stayed in open wheel racing, for example. Although I've beat him in a go-kart so he can't be THAT good :lol:

I will say though that the culture over here is a bit incongruous with the level of commitment needed to succeed in Formula 1. If you look at the younger guys who came up through open wheel series here, and are now in things like IndyCar...their lifestyle wouldn't serve them well at the big dance. Whether that's because it doesn't detract from their current career, or because they fundamentally wouldn't live that way, I don't know. But I suspect its the latter. Marco, Graham, I'm lookin at you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:03 pm 
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bump for discussion


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Fat Albert wrote:
BBC wrote:
Ferrari say they would choose Sebastian Vettel over Lewis Hamilton if they needed to appoint a new lead driver.

The company's president, Luca Di Montezemolo, said he believed Ferrari's current driver Fernando Alonso was the best in Formula 1.

But the Italian added that Vettel, 25, "would be very good for us".

*** puts popcorn in microwave, opens beer, sits back ***



Aaah, that's with the nickname then!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:28 pm 
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I think this is a bit of a myth. Clearly both Vettel and Hamilton are top drivers but I don't think Hamilton has made as many pistakes in his career as Vettel has. I may be wrong and I'm a Hamilton fan but until I see numbers I'm convinced that Vettel makes more mistakes.
Certainly in 2012 Hamilton made none or arguably half and was fast. The team let him down. Both have made some but not that many. Even in his first season Hamilton hardly made a driving error. It would be an interesting analysis to do. Who has made the most driving errors between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton over the last 6 seasons.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
DeeMclarenAce wrote:
Brings me to wonder if Redbull is still spending money trying to find an American that can fit in the cockpit of an F1 and drive fast??


Trust me, there are some freakingly talented racers in the US. The world of Formula One can be comfortable in the knowledge that guys like Rowdy, Brad, and Denny are quite happy in the lucrative world of NASCAR.

My mind boggles at the concept of this guy going to open wheelers and Formula One. Ultra-quick, ultra-talented, and as nasty as a rattler on a bad day.

Image

He makes Maldonado and RoGro look like treat cats. I'd never want to see Kyle Busch in single seater racing, someone would probably be killed...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:54 am 
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Inappropriate post removed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:46 am 
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Vettelmessi wrote:
Inappropriate post removed.

You seem have a selective memory about 2010 & 2012, too

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Omg I can't belive you guys are arguing with Vettelmessi, this guy is a huge Hamilton hater, just check his posts, he writes something bad about Hamilton almost in every thread, even if the thread is not about Hamilton. Don't feed the trolls. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Inappropriate post removed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Vettelmessi wrote:
Inappropriate post removed.

Regarding the highlighted bit: Have you read your own posts? 8O

I'm assuming you've not read many of the threads on here either? Hamilton gets his fair share of grief. This site is a Kimi love fest for the most part.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Its okay, nobody on a forum needs you to do anything for them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Vettelmessi wrote:
Inappropriate post removed.


:lol: :lol:

It's a very popular dish around here.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:35 am 
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OK, I'm getting bored of this thread now. Every time I open it up there's more attacks and more waste product hitting the rotating cooling machine.

Stop trolling, stop feeding the trolls, or this playground is locked.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:04 am 
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jammin78 wrote:
Vettelmessi wrote:
Inappropriate post removed.

Regarding the highlighted bit: Have you read your own posts? 8O

I'm assuming you've not read many of the threads on here either? Hamilton gets his fair share of grief. This site is a Kimi love fest for the most part.

Now you mention it, I haven't seen many OTT posts from Kimi fans recently. Have I just missed them, or are they more sensible than the rest of us who can't let F1 'go' - even though there are no bloody races to bicker about!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:11 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Vettelmessi wrote:
Inappropriate post removed.

Regarding the highlighted bit: Have you read your own posts? 8O

I'm assuming you've not read many of the threads on here either? Hamilton gets his fair share of grief. This site is a Kimi love fest for the most part.

Now you mention it, I haven't seen many OTT posts from Kimi fans recently. Have I just missed them, or are they more sensible than the rest of us who can't let F1 'go' - even though there are no bloody races to bicker about!

I think that's the case, the media dries up, and many fans quite happily move on to something else. Then there's us who stick around and bicker about anything else.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
I agree. Outright speed isn't everything, it's how you use it. I personally think Vettel utilises his talents better than Hamilton. That's why one has a single World Title and the other three.

and the car plays absolutely no role, yes :uhoh:

the same people would tell you that car is more important than driver. :lol: pick one side and stick to it ffs :lol: f1 fans flip flop so much sometimes i wonder if they are all John McCain in disguise :-P


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
DeeMclarenAce wrote:
Brings me to wonder if Redbull is still spending money trying to find an American that can fit in the cockpit of an F1 and drive fast??


Trust me, there are some freakingly talented racers in the US. The world of Formula One can be comfortable in the knowledge that guys like Rowdy, Brad, and Denny are quite happy in the lucrative world of NASCAR.

My mind boggles at the concept of this guy going to open wheelers and Formula One. Ultra-quick, ultra-talented, and as nasty as a rattler on a bad day.

Image

He makes Maldonado and RoGro look like treat cats. I'd never want to see Kyle Busch in single seater racing, someone would probably be killed...

Kyle Busch has actually calmed down and he is not an idiot,he wouldn't race open wheelers like tin tops obviously.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:35 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Luca is ALWAYS full of it. That's why he's going into politics ;)

There is no proof of that, even your link that you used merely suggests that it is a rumor at this point. Luca is most assuredly not ALWAYS full of it, ashley... people who have achieved the level of success that Luca di Montezemolo has achieved have most assuredly made many very right decisions. Like many powerful men, he has made comments that have left me shaking my head, but to dismiss him as "ALWAYS" full of it, while defending Marko as I have seen you do, is hypocrisy at the very least.

Maybe one day he will turn to politics, I would imagine that he would be quite good at it, heaven knows, having been in F1 for decades would be great training, but to basically dismiss his comments for what he may one day do in politics is not justified.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:45 pm 
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He runs a political think tank that is turning into a political party - he's already in politics.

And being successful and making good decisions in business doesn't make your public comments relevant, sensible, truthful, or significant. Look at Donald Trump. He has an empire, and every time he opens his mouth everyone groans, sighs, and shakes their head. Its part of Luca's job to say the nonsense he says, and he's the best at it, but that doesn't make the content any more sensible or important. The sport is full of people blowing smoke up each other's asses, sometimes their own too.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Ashely,
You chose to denigrate him by saying he is "ALWAYS" full of it. Anytime you choose to apply the word ALWAYS, or NEVER, you have left yourself in an undefendable position... yet, you went so far as to CAPITALIZE it.

And in your most recent post you further compound it by saying...."every time he opens his mouth everyone groans, sighs and shakes their heads". Once again, an undefendable position. There have been many things that Luca has said that did not cause me to do those things. There have been many times over the years that Luca has made comments that were not off-base and even some who had his PF1 critics having to say that they agreed... often much to their dismay.

Always, Never, Everything, Everyone..... don't think that EVERYONE thinks exactly like you. Allow yourself some room for exceptions.
;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:56 pm 
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I actually used "everyone" in reference to Mr. Trump, not Montezuma's revenge, and a wink at the end of my original post ought to adequately cover the hyperbole in case anyone was slow enough to miss the correlation on its own merits.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:37 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
I actually used "everyone" in reference to Mr. Trump, not Montezuma's revenge, and a wink at the end of my original post ought to adequately cover the hyperbole in case anyone was slow enough to miss the correlation on its own merits.


So you are suggesting that someone calling you on your all-inclusive "ALWAYS full of it" is "slow". I rather resent that.

I guess you don't have to show di Montezemolo respect, that is your choice. However, to ignore what the man has done, to suggest that he "ALWAYS" is full of it when he has accomplished so much in his career is not fair and suggest ignorance of what he has accomplished.

Face it, you got called on being overly dramatic...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:56 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
DeeMclarenAce wrote:
Brings me to wonder if Redbull is still spending money trying to find an American that can fit in the cockpit of an F1 and drive fast??


Trust me, there are some freakingly talented racers in the US. The world of Formula One can be comfortable in the knowledge that guys like Rowdy, Brad, and Denny are quite happy in the lucrative world of NASCAR.

My mind boggles at the concept of this guy going to open wheelers and Formula One. Ultra-quick, ultra-talented, and as nasty as a rattler on a bad day.

Image

He makes Maldonado and RoGro look like treat cats. I'd never want to see Kyle Busch in single seater racing, someone would probably be killed...

Kyle Busch has actually calmed down and he is not an idiot,he wouldn't race open wheelers like tin tops obviously.

Well I hope he never races single sweaters so we don't have to find out. The guy should have been banned for a long time for some of the ridiculous moves he's pulled. Disgrace to racing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Alcibiades wrote:
I think this is a bit of a myth. Clearly both Vettel and Hamilton are top drivers but I don't think Hamilton has made as many pistakes in his career as Vettel has. I may be wrong and I'm a Hamilton fan but until I see numbers I'm convinced that Vettel makes more mistakes.


I don't think that Montezemolo is speaking from a mythological perspective. He does have access to a wealth of data for both Vettel and Hamilton. In addition, he knows the drivers. When he says he prefers someone who uses their head first instead of their foot first (comparing these two in 2011), he is speaking about their mentality and style. It has nothing to do with 'myths' for Monty.

Quote:
Certainly in 2012 Hamilton made none or arguably half and was fast. The team let him down. Both have made some but not that many. Even in his first season Hamilton hardly made a driving error. It would be an interesting analysis to do. Who has made the most driving errors between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton over the last 6 seasons.


Well I don't know if we know the actual reason that Monty doesn't seem keen on Hamilton. As I mentioned, he gave the head over foot argument last year; this year it is because Hamilton is older than Vettel. I mean we are talking all of 2 years older and in any case, Lewis would be approximately the age of Alonso, Kimi and Schumi when they went to Ferrari. I don't think those factors would be of great concern to other top teams - so I question Monty's statements.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:33 am 
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Blake wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I actually used "everyone" in reference to Mr. Trump, not Montezuma's revenge, and a wink at the end of my original post ought to adequately cover the hyperbole in case anyone was slow enough to miss the correlation on its own merits.


So you are suggesting that someone calling you on your all-inclusive "ALWAYS full of it" is "slow". I rather resent that.

I guess you don't have to show di Montezemolo respect, that is your choice. However, to ignore what the man has done, to suggest that he "ALWAYS" is full of it when he has accomplished so much in his career is not fair and suggest ignorance of what he has accomplished.

Face it, you got called on being overly dramatic...

I agree with Ashley insofar as Luca is 'full of it' - although "always" is a bit OTT. Obviously he's a v successful businessman, but he's also made some v dubious decisions/moves at Ferrari F1 that have not helped the Ferrari F1 team.

Doubtless, sometimes his opinions are correct - but I wish he'd 'back off' from F1 as (personally) I believe he's harmed Ferrari (F1), and will continue to do so. I have no respect whatsoever for him in this role.

Sorry, a bit off topic!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Blake wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I actually used "everyone" in reference to Mr. Trump, not Montezuma's revenge, and a wink at the end of my original post ought to adequately cover the hyperbole in case anyone was slow enough to miss the correlation on its own merits.


So you are suggesting that someone calling you on your all-inclusive "ALWAYS full of it" is "slow". I rather resent that.

I guess you don't have to show di Montezemolo respect, that is your choice. However, to ignore what the man has done, to suggest that he "ALWAYS" is full of it when he has accomplished so much in his career is not fair and suggest ignorance of what he has accomplished.

Face it, you got called on being overly dramatic...


Hyperbole (pron.: /haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-pur-bə-lee;[1] Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.[2]

Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect. As a literary device, hyperbole is often used in poetry, and is frequently encountered in casual speech. An example of hyperbole is: "The bag weighed a ton."[3] Hyperbole makes the point that the bag was very heavy, though it probably doesn't actually weigh a ton.

History is full of folks who believe and do one thing, and say another. As I already said, there are many successful people who are completely full of fairy cakes. Believing someone spews nonsense is not ignoring anything, good or bad, its simply believing that he or she spews nonsense.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Guys. Lay off. Ashley, remember people will call you out on any gap in your posts. Blake, don't wind yourself up.

My challenge to this thread is to go 24 hours without an argument or things getting personal. Humour me, please.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:24 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
History is full of folks who believe and do one thing, and say another. As I already said, there are many successful people who are completely full of fairy cakes. Believing someone spews nonsense is not ignoring anything, good or bad, its simply believing that he or she spews nonsense.

We have a winner!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:09 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
Guys. Lay off. Ashley, remember people will call you out on any gap in your posts. Blake, don't wind yourself up.

My challenge to this thread is to go 24 hours without an argument or things getting personal. Humour me, please.

And I'm just clarifying my use of a rhetorical device.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:14 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
Guys. Lay off. Ashley, remember people will call you out on any gap in your posts. Blake, don't wind yourself up.

My challenge to this thread is to go 24 hours without an argument or things getting personal. Humour me, please.

And I'm just clarifying my use of a rhetorical device.

Granted. Still, not the wisest choice of device on an internet forum, as you just saw.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Here is Montezuma's political outfit btw, for anyone who reads more Italian than I do. http://www.italiafutura.it

P-F1 Mod wrote:
Granted. Still, not the wisest choice of device on an internet forum, as you just saw.

Doesn't bother me if someone can't spot it. Not my loss.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:10 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Here is Montezuma's political outfit btw, for anyone who reads more Italian than I do. http://www.italiafutura.it




It says.

"We no like, we go Indy car" :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Hell! I'd love to see Hamilton and Vettel in same-cars. Both are so talented, competitive and fast. Wonder if they'd get along? Or would it degenrate into a Montoya-Ralf Schumacher, Senna-Prost, Piquet-Mansell,Rindt-Graham Hill, relationship?

Whatever, I think the racing would be great. But I would not envy the team manager.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:53 am 
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I was just wondering whether Montezemolo's statement is meant to prepare Vettel (and/or Hamilton) for a number 2 role at Ferrari - should he be foolish enough to want to go there. Or alternatively, whether it signals that Vettel/Hamilton would have to bring a lot more sponsor money than Alonso managed.

Edit: actually no, Montezemolo speaks of a new lead driver. Interesting; is Santander getting cold feet?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:07 am 
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Fiki wrote:
I was just wondering whether Montezemolo's statement is meant to prepare Vettel (and/or Hamilton) for a number 2 role at Ferrari - should he be foolish enough to want to go there. Or alternatively, whether it signals that Vettel/Hamilton would have to bring a lot more sponsor money than Alonso managed.

Edit: actually no, Montezemolo speaks of a new lead driver. Interesting; is Santander getting cold feet?

It would surprise me if Alonso himself doesn't sometimes look at the Red Bull and think "Well if Seb wants a red car then I'll gladly take his".

But I guess he wouldn't be telling Luca.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:03 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was just wondering whether Montezemolo's statement is meant to prepare Vettel (and/or Hamilton) for a number 2 role at Ferrari - should he be foolish enough to want to go there. Or alternatively, whether it signals that Vettel/Hamilton would have to bring a lot more sponsor money than Alonso managed.

Edit: actually no, Montezemolo speaks of a new lead driver. Interesting; is Santander getting cold feet?

It would surprise me if Alonso himself doesn't sometimes look at the Red Bull and think "Well if Seb wants a red car then I'll gladly take his".

But I guess he wouldn't be telling Luca.

:D (Not to his face anyway.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Posts: 33
So where in that interview does it say Vettel is better than Hamilton?

NOWHERE!
The company's president, Luca Di Montezemolo, said he believed Ferrari's current driver Fernando Alonso was the best in Formula 1.
But the Italian added that Vettel, 25, "would be very good for us".
"Between all the drivers, Vettel and Hamilton could be perfect for Ferrari in the future, with one difference - Vettel is younger," he said.
"First of all, of all the drivers, we have the best - in terms of speed, intelligence in the race, and a capability to work with the team.

Nowhere in this interview does he EVER say Seb is better than Lewis.


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