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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:11 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Perilouscow wrote:
His wheel to wheel racing is just amazing! I for one have become quite a big fan of his.


I know than nobody is going to agree with me but I have never thought Kimi was a great racer just cautious.


Cautious? You're aware of the fact back in his Mclaren period some people were even attributing the unreliability of his Mclaren to his agressive driving style?

This past year he maybe was more cautious than before, but I wouldn't say he has always been known for it.


Cautious in terms of wheel to wheel racing not in terms of driving style. I actually think he has always been cautious in wheel to wheel racing. This season was no more cautious than normal for Kimi. Obviously there are some stand out moments Japan 05 springs to mind but that aside can you really remember Kimi making a lot of key overtakes?


Backtracking a bit, I know, but I've just watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn682B2x4vY

Honestly, there are some great and ballsy moves here.


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:34 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:


Well Bahrain this year instantly springs to mind but I am sure I could find a few from earlier in his career if I went back through. I have been thinking this for about 10 yeas and I would not of gained this opinion from nothing.

Regarding Bahrain ,he did go wheel to wheel but he couldn't pull it off.So basically you are criticising him for not being able to overtake in that situation.
Please take your time in finding those instances where "he did not want to race."
Off the top of my head , i can think of his battle with montoya in germany and hungary 02,barrichello at silverstone 03,schumacher at spa 04,button at hockenheim 06 and the list goes on. Some of these were overtakes upon him as well but in all these overtakes raikkonen went wheel to wheel for about 4-5 corners.


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:54 pm 
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mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Perilouscow wrote:
His wheel to wheel racing is just amazing! I for one have become quite a big fan of his.


I know than nobody is going to agree with me but I have never thought Kimi was a great racer just cautious.


Cautious? You're aware of the fact back in his Mclaren period some people were even attributing the unreliability of his Mclaren to his agressive driving style?

This past year he maybe was more cautious than before, but I wouldn't say he has always been known for it.


Cautious in terms of wheel to wheel racing not in terms of driving style. I actually think he has always been cautious in wheel to wheel racing. This season was no more cautious than normal for Kimi. Obviously there are some stand out moments Japan 05 springs to mind but that aside can you really remember Kimi making a lot of key overtakes?


Backtracking a bit, I know, but I've just watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn682B2x4vY

Honestly, there are some great and ballsy moves here.


Great video :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:04 pm 
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jimmy.c wrote:
Sicilia wrote:
Makes me laugh!

For so many to be loving Kimi so much is quite amusing. He did some good performances no question but to have this kind of admiration when on many occasions he was average. It's like we forget that he had a competitive car all season had 100% reliability and was never caught up in a race ending collision. He was dire in Brazil and if anyone else had got lost we wouldn't be laughing about it we would be tearing strips off them. On pace he did not blow his team mate away in qualifying he was out qualified 10 - 9 I think and as we all know if his team mate finished he wasn't to far away from him.

What I'm trying to say is if a certain others drivers performed as kimi did this year I doubt there would be so much praise thrown at them.




I'm no 'fanboy' of kimi but don't find it hard to see why he is recieving so much praise. As comeback seasons go it was exceptional. The facts might appear quite boring and steady. No collisions, getting beaten in qualy, bringing it home every lap of the season but one.. sounds like boring old nick heidfeld to me! But kimi is a racers racer. It's precisely why he came back in the first place, to race.. We're talking about the man that turned up in Monaco in a james hunt helmet. Not a glitzy gold gemstone on his bonce. Just a solid replica of his favourite racer. His praise comes from his off track persona as much as it does from his skill as a driver. A driver that shows an ounce of personality outside of his corporate responsibilties these days is a rare thing. It wasn't always this way but unfortunately it's the world we live in. As such kimi appears as a breath of fresh air. An old school racing maverick who doesn't give a damn. Much like his hero mr hunt.

RoGro has some incredible speed that just need refining but regardless of that I still think he may have more of a struggle keeping up with kimi this coming year. If the stats are anything to go by, the last half of the year was kimi's on pace so he'll be quick out the box this time around. No hesitant dives around vettel this time I hope.

Also a note about his 'dire' Brazilian performance. I challenge any of the non WDC drivers to, A, take themselves off track to avoid vettel's cautious entry to turn four. and B, go wheel to wheel with schumi or anyone for that matter, getting closer than we normally see, without trading carbon fibre..

An exiting, fast, characterful world champion has returned. Lets give him a bit of praise...


I do give him praise at times he was outstanding this year a pleasure to see him race wheel to wheel with others so closely without contact. Don't agree with Brazil however part of the skill in racing wheel to wheel is anticipating what's going on around you, that's where Grojean has come unstuck. So he made an error did well to avoid it and then after that apart from the battle with schumi was nowhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:39 pm
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mds wrote:
Sicilia wrote:
I'm not bashing Kimi but he wasn't as great as you all make out he was that's it.


That's just your opinion. I genuinely think he did great for someone that was absent for a few years and that has been paired up with a very fast driver.

Quote:
You only concentrate on the positives about his season when asked about his less than great performances there's a shopping list of excuses.


I don't agree. He was given botched strategies on a few occasions, and his Lotus wasn't always very competitive. Those aren't excuses, they're a pretty fair assessment of what happened.


Yeah but those sound like excuses. Not every quali or race that he didn't do well in were due to that, Monaco for instance. He did well due to him being away granted and its been great to see him back but like I said earlier with some of his performances this year any other driver would be critersized.

Do I have a point?


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Posts: 5460
mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Perilouscow wrote:
His wheel to wheel racing is just amazing! I for one have become quite a big fan of his.


I know than nobody is going to agree with me but I have never thought Kimi was a great racer just cautious.


Cautious? You're aware of the fact back in his Mclaren period some people were even attributing the unreliability of his Mclaren to his agressive driving style?

This past year he maybe was more cautious than before, but I wouldn't say he has always been known for it.


Cautious in terms of wheel to wheel racing not in terms of driving style. I actually think he has always been cautious in wheel to wheel racing. This season was no more cautious than normal for Kimi. Obviously there are some stand out moments Japan 05 springs to mind but that aside can you really remember Kimi making a lot of key overtakes?


Backtracking a bit, I know, but I've just watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn682B2x4vY

Honestly, there are some great and ballsy moves here.

Great video, thanks.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 379
Kimi's performance was solid in 2012. Nothing like 05 or 07 though.

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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Sicilia wrote:
Yeah but those sound like excuses. Not every quali or race that he didn't do well in were due to that, Monaco for instance. He did well due to him being away granted and its been great to see him back but like I said earlier with some of his performances this year any other driver would be critersized.

Do I have a point?


I'm not sure. As far as quali is concerned, you might. Mostly in the beginning of the season he had a few real stinkers. But all in all his average starting position of the season was 7.45, whereas Grosjean managed 7.35. That's not too far off.
As far as the race is concerned, I would have to review every result. Would take me a little bit too much time :)

As for Monaco he struggled with the tires, which was at that point in the season not uncommon for any of the drivers, so I don't know if we should hold that against him. Grosjean was out of the race from lap 1, so we don't know if it was the Lotus or Kimi not matching up with the tires that weekend. He did start the race well, could have gone faster if not for the traffic, so it wasn't lack of speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:35 am 
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mds wrote:
Sicilia wrote:
Yeah but those sound like excuses. Not every quali or race that he didn't do well in were due to that, Monaco for instance. He did well due to him being away granted and its been great to see him back but like I said earlier with some of his performances this year any other driver would be critersized.

Do I have a point?


I'm not sure. As far as quali is concerned, you might. Mostly in the beginning of the season he had a few real stinkers. But all in all his average starting position of the season was 7.45, whereas Grosjean managed 7.35. That's not too far off.
As far as the race is concerned, I would have to review every result. Would take me a little bit too much time :)

As for Monaco he struggled with the tires, which was at that point in the season not uncommon for any of the drivers, so I don't know if we should hold that against him. Grosjean was out of the race from lap 1, so we don't know if it was the Lotus or Kimi not matching up with the tires that weekend. He did start the race well, could have gone faster if not for the traffic, so it wasn't lack of speed.


If Schumacher hadn't had this penalty he wouldn't have been there to have Grosjean crash into him and take himself off. Schumacher would have later have had a failure, ruining Mercedes' reputation, Webber held everyone up, Grosjean perhaps could have found a strategy.

I doubt it. But Lotus had supreme pace that weekend. Sorry but I refuse to accept that Michael and Nico were not driving at a higher level that weekend than Kimi and Romain. It would have been interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am 
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
Perilouscow wrote:
Cozz wrote:
froze wrote:
Cozz wrote:
If anyone destroyed RoGro then it was himself and no one else.

So if your teammate does so badly that he gets himself a race ban and collects less than half of the points you did, you don't get to call it beating anymore?


Yes Kimi beat his teammate. No one was talking about just beating teammates. But the word- destroy used against RoGro as a term of what Kimi did to him simply does not fit. Both drivers had sparks of pure speed on their best days but to say RoGro is in the position he's in because of Kimi is complete rubbish....it's because of himself and no one else.


But when a driver pretty much completes every lap of every race in a season, and his team mate doesn't finish 5 or more races because of his silly mistakes, then I would say he was close to being destroyed yes. Don't get me wrong I like Grosjean, but being beaten by your team mate doesn't just come down to being faster.



The term "destroyed" always implies that one driver completely dominated the other all the time, meaning in qualifying, the race, the standings, everything. That obviously did not happen with Kimi and Grosjean.

So for example, most people are saying that Hamilton destroyed Kovalainen when they were teammates, even though there were some qualifying sessions and race laps when Kovalainen was being faster. Or that Alonso destroyed Massa this year even though there were sessions when Massa was faster, especially in the latter stages of the year.

If you compare Grosjean vs. Kimi this year to those two examples, I think Grosjean did even worse, but it still doesn't count as being destroyed? So some achievements can be belittled and others not, even if the merits are the same or better? I'm not saying Grosjean is a bad driver, as I'm not saying Kovalainen or Massa are bad drivers either. It's just that some people seem to think that being occasionally faster and then usually crashing out is somehow more spectacular than being almost all the time slower but not usually crashing out.

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On question about his donuts at the end of the 2007 Belgium Grand Prix, his reply was: “I lost it!”


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Kimi didn't only destroy Grosjean, but also caused him collateral damage that will take him much time to heal.
Romain thought he was the fastest at every qualification, only to get outperformed by his rusty team mate on race day. This is the main reason of Rogros multiple mistakes during Sundays.


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Image

For those saying Kimi plays it safe. Just shared by Lotus on FB


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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Raikkonen is the fastest driver pound for pound on the grid but he needs the car to do it. Moreover, he pushes the car to its limits more than any other driver in the past 30 or more years and to some extent that can be a disadvantage if it breaks down.

Another problem with Kimi is motivation. He can easily get distracted or bored if the car or team don't come up to his expectations. IMO, McLaren was the right team for him even though he got the WDC with Ferrari.

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 Post subject: Re: Praising...Kimi.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:54 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I know than nobody is going to agree with me but I have never thought Kimi was a great racer just cautious.


It does take a rather cautious driver to overtake Schumacher at Eau Rouge.

Of all the current drivers, I think Kimi strikes the best balance between caution and aggression. I feel too many drivers are willing to risk crashing out in order to preserve their position, and though this seems brave, it's a foolish attitude to have if you aspire to win a championship. If you're Kobayashi or Maldonado and your goal is to sporadically get a good finish, you can risk it all and give viewers a good spectacle, but this is not an option for the top drivers. Even Hamilton has cooled down a bit from his earlier years and this has contributed to him becoming a more consistent finisher, though he doesn't have as many spectacular overtakes.


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