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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Mclaren is a great team with a rich heritage and great pedigree and will do fine in
the future.....so why did rush to anounce Prez and now...rushing to be 1st to anounce launch date,as if to say we are doing fine without Lewis.yea yea all F1 Fans know you will be ok ......but do you think you will be OK.cause you acting kinda insecure

this obsession with useless media spin that no believes or care about is getting really annoying.Mclaren you are a great team stop acting childish and defensive


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:35 pm 
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They signed Perez quick because Hamilton was leaving, they wanted a replacement in straight away.

Car launch date, that's all related to publicly/marketing, can't question how teams do their business with that.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Lewis told Martin he was going Macca signed Perez and announced it.

Why should they have waited? There was no reason to wait and I'm sure their sponsors wanted to know what was going on and didn't want the team to look as if they were in disarray.

As for first to announce launch date. I thought Force India or someone announced earlier in the week. But again why should they wait on someone else to do that? If they announced after Merc but at an earlier date they would have been getting accused the same anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:42 pm 
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all I see is timid knee jerk reaction


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Samaritan wrote:
all I see is timid knee jerk reaction



They signed Perez quick because Hamilton was leaving, they wanted a replacement in straight away. Simple.

Car launch date, that's all related to publicly/marketing, can't question how teams do their business with that. Simple.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:47 pm 
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How is announcing the new driver and the launch dates knee jerk?

Both had to be done eventually, where is the point in delaying it?

For the launch they want their date out early incase another team announces the same date. Then they have to change their plans. this way if anyone else was thinking of using the same date they will have to change or risk all the press heading to Woking.

When is it BTW? Hope it's streamed again.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:48 pm 
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I'm with you samaritan. The seem to come up with perez pretty quick after saying that they weren't negotiating with anyone else. I don't really think that mclaren thought that hamilton would leave. I'm sure there are things that we do not know that made them pick perez. Tell me that anyone on this forum quessed that perez would end up with mclaren.

I don't really read anything into mclaren launching early. Maybe they think the car they finished with is good enough to win in the new year.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:54 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
I'm with you samaritan. The seem to come up with perez pretty quick after saying that they weren't negotiating with anyone else. I don't really think that mclaren thought that hamilton would leave. I'm sure there are things that we do not know that made them pick perez. Tell me that anyone on this forum quessed that perez would end up with mclaren.

I don't really read anything into mclaren launching early. Maybe they think the car they finished with is good enough to win in the new year.



Which turned out to be BS. They had been talking to Perez for weeks before Lewis said he was going. The no plan B was just talk. Whitmarsh basically said so when asked afterwards. They wouldn't have knocked out a deal and put pen to paper with Perez in less than a week.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:58 pm 
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So, you're saying McLaren should've waited for Lewis to announce that he's leaving and not release the car first.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Shodow? :P

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Mclaren shouldn't have let him get into the last year of his contract if they wanted to keep him. I have never seen it as comparison due to the absence of a transfer fee, but its similar to football. Once a player is in the last year of their contract the team can get caught short especially if they think he is going to stay.

Mclaren found themselves needing a driver and all the recognised top ones were already signed.

Given Hulks end to the season, I am now gutted he is not in the car for next year instead of Perez.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:52 pm 
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I think people should stop vilifying McLaren... Well, if they wanted to screw Lewis over, they could have had signed anyone beforehand Lewis signed with Merc and announced it... However, they didn't... but some nutters wouldn't stop blaming Macca for everything going wrong with Lewis.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Samaritan wrote:
all I see is timid knee jerk reaction


It isn't like Lewis walked in one day and, completely out of the blue, told McLaren he was leaving, and within ten minutes they decided to sign Perez as his replacement. The speculation about Lewis departing had been going on for months prior to it all being officially announced, and I would bet my house that McLaren - as soon as they knew there was a chance Lewis would leave - sat down and discussed potential replacements, and then started looking at them in more detail over the races that followed. Far from a kneejerk reaction.

As for "rushing to be 1st to anounce launch date", Force India were the first to announce when they would launch their car. But I guess facts like that kind of ruin whatever you're trying to spin...

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:31 pm 
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It wasn't really a knee jerk reaction signing Perez. Every day that Hamilton left without signing on increased rumors that he was leaving and natrually McLaren had a solution for most scenario's. If Hamilton left, they would sign another driver, Perez. McLaren were probably talking to Perez as a pre cautionary measure weeks before.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Plus Merc have admitted talking to Lewis as early as last December IIRC. I would be very surprised if Macca hadn't gotten some sort of inkling what was going on. especially with fuller going to see Red Bull and Ferrari too.

No team is going to know a driver is talking to 3 other teams, actively looking for a new seat and not have someone else in their sights just in case.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:43 pm 
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The moment Lewis was spotted swanning into the Red Bull motorhome looking for a seat McLaren knew to go looking at other drivers

A team as big as McLaren has not and will not live in the shadow of a driver (no matter how good that driver is)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:18 pm 
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f1madman wrote:
Shodow? :P

You're right. What's a shodow?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:18 pm 
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McLaren struggles from Lewis's shadow?!!...Ha, i find that quite funny,since Hamilton is the only loser in this ordeal.Macca had the best car in the closing stages of the season and i'll put my money on them to be the best car at the beggining of next season.

I mean, who walks away from a car like that!!!

Oh yeah.. Lewis Hamilton does,...the smart cookie that he is!

I do agree that McLaren did rush to sign a new driver and Hulkenberg was the obvious choice,but it happened and regardless im sure they will do alot better in 2013 then LH will


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:21 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
I think people should stop vilifying McLaren... Well, if they wanted to screw Lewis over, they could have had signed anyone beforehand Lewis signed with Merc and announced it... However, they didn't... but some nutters wouldn't stop blaming Macca for everything going wrong with Lewis.

I don't blame McLaren for signing Perez as soon as Lewis made the decission to leave, but to announce it even before Hamilton announced his switch to Mercedes was not great. It robbed Mecedes the chance to let Michael Schumacher announce his retirement and decission to leave Mercedes, himself.
Hamilton told Withmarsh about his decission as soon as he made it, and it was Hamiltons wish to tell it McLaren immediately, that McLaren had the chance to look for a repacement immediately.
It would have been better for Hamilton to keep quiet about it as long as possible, and tell McLaren about it ,as late as possible, but for loyality for McLaren,he wanted to tell it them as soon as possible. Mercedes was not happy about McLaren to announce Lewis departure before they had the chance to let Schumacher state his decission, and to announce Lewis signing.

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Last edited by Haribo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:29 pm 
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F246 wrote:
McLaren struggles from Lewis's shadow?!!...Ha, i find that quite funny,since Hamilton is the only loser in this ordeal.Macca had the best car in the closing stages of the season and i'll put my money on them to be the best car at the beggining of next season.

I mean, who walks away from a car like that!!!

Oh yeah.. Lewis Hamilton does,...the smart cookie that he is!

I do agree that McLaren did rush to sign a new driver and Hulkenberg was the obvious choice,but it happened and regardless im sure they will do alot better in 2013 then LH will

Seems there are more important things in live, than to have the faster car. If someone like Hamilton leaves voluntarily a team like McLaren and one of the fastest cars, there must be something major not quite right for him ,at this team.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:55 am 
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F246 wrote:
McLaren struggles from Lewis's shadow?!!...Ha, i find that quite funny,since Hamilton is the only loser in this ordeal.Macca had the best car in the closing stages of the season and i'll put my money on them to be the best car at the beggining of next season.

I mean, who walks away from a car like that!!!

Oh yeah.. Lewis Hamilton does,...the smart cookie that he is!

I do agree that McLaren did rush to sign a new driver and Hulkenberg was the obvious choice,but it happened and regardless im sure they will do alot better in 2013 then LH will


Lewis in Singapore and Abu Dhabi ? :lol:

Mclaren will be weaker without Lewis, Lewis will almost certainly be weaker miracle permitting. They both lost.

Mclaren almost certainly do better than Lewis, but together, with the key thing reliability they might have won the title next year.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:16 am 
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And if they didn't announce Perez right away or launch the car on that day everyone would say "well gosh why weren't they prepared with a back up?" and "why are they behind schedule with building the car?" When you're a major, public outfit you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, so do what you want when it suits you and let everybody talk. Talk doesn't matter when the people who DO know the truth.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:33 am 
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Haribo wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
I think people should stop vilifying McLaren... Well, if they wanted to screw Lewis over, they could have had signed anyone beforehand Lewis signed with Merc and announced it... However, they didn't... but some nutters wouldn't stop blaming Macca for everything going wrong with Lewis.

I don't blame McLaren for signing Perez as soon as Lewis made the decission to leave, but to announce it even before Hamilton announced his switch to Mercedes was not great. It robbed Mecedes the chance to let Michael Schumacher announce his retirement and decission to leave Mercedes, himself.
Hamilton told Withmarsh about his decission as soon as he made it, and it was Hamiltons wish to tell it McLaren immediately, that McLaren had the chance to look for a repacement immediately.
It would have been better for Hamilton to keep quiet about it as long as possible, and tell McLaren about it ,as late as possible, but for loyality for McLaren,he wanted to tell it them as soon as possible. Mercedes was not happy about McLaren to announce Lewis departure before they had the chance to let Schumacher state his decission, and to announce Lewis signing.

Tell you what, your boss would be actively looking for a replacement as soon as he has a hint that you may leave. You would do the same, if one of your reportee was to bail on you. Lewis didn't tell Macca that he was looking elsewhere for '13 at the end of '11 when he/ his manager was found trying to speak to Ferrari/ RBR. The whole paddock knew in 2011 that Lewis was trying outside Macca... you think they at Macca didn't? Similarly, Macca didn't need to wait till Lewis' announcement was made. They waited till he confirmed what he had done and then they went and signed Perez. Schumacher was a casualty of it all, but Merc had made their mind up, or why would they be speaking to Lewis? I think Ross did a Luca Montezemolo (douchy move) on Michael, but will we ever find out? May be he didn't have a say on it. I could be wrong about it, but it does smell funny at Merc., i'am afraid it smells as douchy as it did at Ferrari in '06.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:03 am 
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Haribo wrote:
I don't blame McLaren for signing Perez as soon as Lewis made the decission to leave, but to announce it even before Hamilton announced his switch to Mercedes was not great. It robbed Mecedes the chance to let Michael Schumacher announce his retirement and decission to leave Mercedes, himself.
Hamilton told Withmarsh about his decission as soon as he made it, and it was Hamiltons wish to tell it McLaren immediately, that McLaren had the chance to look for a repacement immediately.
It would have been better for Hamilton to keep quiet about it as long as possible, and tell McLaren about it ,as late as possible, but for loyality for McLaren,he wanted to tell it them as soon as possible. Mercedes was not happy about McLaren to announce Lewis departure before they had the chance to let Schumacher state his decission, and to announce Lewis signing.


But that amounts to wanting team a to revolve around a driver from Team B and of course the team its self.

In what other business would someone wait on a competitor to make an announcement before they did?

Simply none.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:42 am 
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Why do some Hamilton fans seem to forget McLaren existed and were winning championships before Hamilton was even born? He isn't the be all and end all of the team FFS.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:45 am 
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With Lewis' negotiations going on for so long and with Lewis rebuffing them so publicly, Mclaren were looking for a replacement for quite some time. Announcing the fruits of that search when a gap opened up is hardly a knee-jerk reaction.

As for the car announcement, Mclaren are weird and make a new car from the ground up every year (the reason they were so behind at the start of the season), by some guy, any guy, as long as he didn't make the last one.

They release and announce early. Up until recently all they did was race, solely in F1, and did and have done a great job. Didn't get it done this year, bring on the next, they're ready.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:14 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
I don't blame McLaren for signing Perez as soon as Lewis made the decission to leave, but to announce it even before Hamilton announced his switch to Mercedes was not great. It robbed Mecedes the chance to let Michael Schumacher announce his retirement and decission to leave Mercedes, himself.
Hamilton told Withmarsh about his decission as soon as he made it, and it was Hamiltons wish to tell it McLaren immediately, that McLaren had the chance to look for a repacement immediately.
It would have been better for Hamilton to keep quiet about it as long as possible, and tell McLaren about it ,as late as possible, but for loyality for McLaren,he wanted to tell it them as soon as possible. Mercedes was not happy about McLaren to announce Lewis departure before they had the chance to let Schumacher state his decission, and to announce Lewis signing.


But that amounts to wanting team a to revolve around a driver from Team B and of course the team its self.

In what other business would someone wait on a competitor to make an announcement before they did?

Simply none.

It was bad sportmanship from McLaren, because they were hurt, Lewis decided to leave, so they were busy to announce Perez signing before Lewis could make up his mind , to save their face.
If you have watched the video from Whitmarsh , he was very bitter.
McLaren did not even wait util mercedes could inform Schumacher, they announced it immediately when Lewis called Whitmarsh in a private phone call.
Hamilton was very loyal to McLaren to tell them his decission first, before he informed anyone else, but they immediately went to the media with it, they could have given him at least 12 hrs until he was back from Thailand

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:18 am 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
Haribo wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
I think people should stop vilifying McLaren... Well, if they wanted to screw Lewis over, they could have had signed anyone beforehand Lewis signed with Merc and announced it... However, they didn't... but some nutters wouldn't stop blaming Macca for everything going wrong with Lewis.

I don't blame McLaren for signing Perez as soon as Lewis made the decission to leave, but to announce it even before Hamilton announced his switch to Mercedes was not great. It robbed Mecedes the chance to let Michael Schumacher announce his retirement and decission to leave Mercedes, himself.
Hamilton told Withmarsh about his decission as soon as he made it, and it was Hamiltons wish to tell it McLaren immediately, that McLaren had the chance to look for a repacement immediately.
It would have been better for Hamilton to keep quiet about it as long as possible, and tell McLaren about it ,as late as possible, but for loyality for McLaren,he wanted to tell it them as soon as possible. Mercedes was not happy about McLaren to announce Lewis departure before they had the chance to let Schumacher state his decission, and to announce Lewis signing.

Tell you what, your boss would be actively looking for a replacement as soon as he has a hint that you may leave. You would do the same, if one of your reportee was to bail on you. Lewis didn't tell Macca that he was looking elsewhere for '13 at the end of '11 when he/ his manager was found trying to speak to Ferrari/ RBR. The whole paddock knew in 2011 that Lewis was trying outside Macca... you think they at Macca didn't? Similarly, Macca didn't need to wait till Lewis' announcement was made. They waited till he confirmed what he had done and then they went and signed Perez. Schumacher was a casualty of it all, but Merc had made their mind up, or why would they be speaking to Lewis? I think Ross did a Luca Montezemolo (douchy move) on Michael, but will we ever find out? May be he didn't have a say on it. I could be wrong about it, but it does smell funny at Merc., i'am afraid it smells as douchy as it did at Ferrari in '06.

It was not about looking for a replacement, or signing someone, it was about bad style to make it public.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
It was bad sportmanship from McLaren, because they were hurt, Lewis decided to leave, so they were busy to announce Perez signing before Lewis could make up his mind , to save their face.
If you have watched the video from Whitmarsh , he was very bitter.
McLaren did not even wait util mercedes could inform Schumacher, they announced it immediately when Lewis called Whitmarsh in a private phone call.
Hamilton was very loyal to McLaren to tell them his decission first, before he informed anyone else, but they immediately went to the media with it, they could have given him at least 12 hrs until he was back from Thailand


Announce Perez before Lewis made up his mind??

What planet are you on. They didn't announce anything until Lewis told whitmarsh he was away. Waited 12 hours? From what I see Singapore was on the 23rd. Lewis told Martin on the Wednesday by phone that was the 26th and they announced Sergio on the 28th. Thats more than 12 hours. They didn't immediately go to the media with it, they had been talking with Sergio. Lewis confirmed He was going Sergio signed on the line THEN they went to the media.

Lewis and Merc had plenty of time to sort themselves out. McLaren were under NO obligation to do anything to suit Lewis and Merc or Schui. They have their own business to run and their own sponsors to keep happy. That comes before a driver that is leaving, a rival team and a retiring driver that has never had anything to do with the team.

But ultimately. The world does not revolve around Lewis. No one has to do anything just to him a suit him. He was the one in Thailand. If he was the worried he could have flew home and spoke to whitmarsh face to face.

Why should McLaren with Sergio signed deal done have waited? Can anyone give a sane answer to that in such away it doesn't appear like "The world revolves around Lew Lew?

Edit to give some perspective.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... Laren.html

Should they have waited on Renault, Kimi and Montoya to announce what they were doing for '07

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:46 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
And if they didn't announce Perez right away or launch the car on that day everyone would say "well gosh why weren't they prepared with a back up?" and "why are they behind schedule with building the car?" When you're a major, public outfit you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, so do what you want when it suits you and let everybody talk. Talk doesn't matter when the people who DO know the truth.


This post contains sense. I approve :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
They signed Perez quick because Hamilton was leaving, they wanted a replacement in straight away.

Car launch date, that's all related to publicly/marketing, can't question how teams do their business with that.


Except they rushed it and now realise they probably should have signed Hulkenberg. Or perhaps thrown the kitchen sink in a bid to attract Raikkonen.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:13 pm 
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They failed to get Kimi before.

PErez was really on form by the time LEwis announced to them he'll be leaving, it was a no brainer at the time and the added bonus of getting one over Ferrari by pinching a driver from their driver academy.

Ofcourse after the signing Perez went on a crusade to get all the rookie mistakes out of his system. It worked for Lewis from 2011 to 2012 lol. Perez will be a much better driver in Mclaren than he has showed in the second half of season. If he goes back to being Mr Consistent all ill be fine.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Samaritan wrote:
Mclaren is a great team with a rich heritage and great pedigree and will do fine in
the future.....so why did rush to anounce Prez and now...rushing to be 1st to anounce launch date,as if to say we are doing fine without Lewis.yea yea all F1 Fans know you will be ok ......but do you think you will be OK.cause you acting kinda insecure

this obsession with useless media spin that no believes or care about is getting really annoying.Mclaren you are a great team stop acting childish and defensive

Yeah it's McLaren who's acting insecure and childish.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Jomox wrote:
They signed Perez quick because Hamilton was leaving, they wanted a replacement in straight away.

Car launch date, that's all related to publicly/marketing, can't question how teams do their business with that.


Except they rushed it and now realise they probably should have signed Hulkenberg. Or perhaps thrown the kitchen sink in a bid to attract Raikkonen.



They didn't rush anything. They have admitted looking at DiResta and the Hulk, that the "No Plan B" was BS and they had been talking to Sergio for a number of weeks before it was announced. For all we know they did approach Kimis manager.

There was no Knee Jerk or rushing. Remember they even talked with their Sponsors to make sure everyone was fine with Sergios Telemex links. Things would have had to be done to make sure Sergio was free from Slim etc MW said they talked to Slim beforehand to make sure all was above board. Last thing McLaren would have wanted would be some hidden contract that would have bitten them in the pickle.

The only people to see rushing and knee jerk reactions are the Ham fans who think Macca should have done everything and delayed their announcements to suit Lew Lew, Merc and schui. But they are the ones who are ignoring everything else that was going on. Stuff like Merc and lewis had been talking for over 9 months, that Fuller had been to see Ferrari and Red Bull. So Macca would have likely have known well in advance to get Plan b looked into. That the driver line up would have had to be okayed by Ron and the Board. All that stuff including the negotiations would have taken longer than 24hours.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:02 pm 
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peterpaul19 wrote:
f1madman wrote:
Shodow? :P

You're right. What's a shodow?


lol still makes me laugh.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:11 pm 
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f1madman wrote:
peterpaul19 wrote:
f1madman wrote:
Shodow? :P

You're right. What's a shodow?


lol still makes me laugh.


Probably couldn't decide between either 'showdown' or 'shadow' maybe? :?:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Jomox wrote:
They signed Perez quick because Hamilton was leaving, they wanted a replacement in straight away.

Car launch date, that's all related to publicly/marketing, can't question how teams do their business with that.


Except they rushed it and now realise they probably should have signed Hulkenberg. Or perhaps thrown the kitchen sink in a bid to attract Raikkonen.



They didn't rush anything.


In the races since they signed Perez it has become clear that Hulkenberg was probably the better option.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Is it clear? I don't think so. Probably is not definite. And Sergio still beat him in the WDC. Hulk binned it fighting for the lead and cost himself a likely podium.

Sure they could have waited. But then that runs the risk of Sergio or the Hulk signing for someone else.

You are Macca what do you do, sign the talent or wait 'til seasons end and run the risk you see that talent go elsewhere?

Or to flip this around why didn't Red Bull wait rather than sign Webber in July? Was that a rush knee jerk?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Sergio is a good driver, he just suffered from Sauber's typical late-season non-development.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Is it clear? I don't think so. Probably is not definite. And Sergio still beat him in the WDC. Hulk binned it fighting for the lead and cost himself a likely podium.

Sure they could have waited. But then that runs the risk of Sergio or the Hulk signing for someone else.

You are Macca what do you do, sign the talent or wait 'til seasons end and run the risk you see that talent go elsewhere?

Or to flip this around why didn't Red Bull wait rather than sign Webber in July? Was that a rush knee jerk?


When you have a driver like Alonso or Vettel, who is in the second car is not that important.

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