planetf1.com

Like i said he supposedly knew the woman so when he walked into the canteen it was her he asked

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But isn't that different to having her set up the meeting?

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

This thread has gotten so far off into the weeds that even Kimi can't figure out where y'all are trying to go.

Why is it different at all, he asks the woman to ask Horner if he can have a meeting with him

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Because there is a difference between asking someone to be the go between and set up the meeting and asking someone could you go get Mr X I would like a word.

If you walked into a company to see Mr Big and asked the security guard to get him, would you say the security guard set up the meeting?


Of course not.

There is a difference between setting up a meeting and simply asking someone to go get someone else because you'd like a word. OR indeed just to let them know you had arrived for a pre-organised meeting.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Well i guess i have to be happy that its just now just a play on words rather than me just talking total crap

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It's not a play on words.

You claimed the meeting was set up through someone Lewis knew in the canteen. When the reality was Lewis just walked in and asked someone to tell Horner he was there.

Two very different things.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Does anyone remember why you're talking about Lewis' chat with Christian in the first place?

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Well i think it is, and he didn't just ask someone, he walked into the canteen knowing he would find the person he was looking for to ask Horner, you never heard the original story but are making a story up that he wandered into the canteen and randomly picked out someone to ask to suit yourself.

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I believe it had something to do with Hamilton never having looked for the Red Bull drive

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Where is the article that says he knew the person he asked? The one you supplied said he arrived unannounced. So whether he knew the person he asked or not, either way, he still showed up and said "hey, could you grab Christian for me?".

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In answer to this thread i believe

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Well tell me this then.

How does one walk into somewhere unannounced to a pre-planned meeting?

As for me making stuff up, from your own supplied source


Note it doesn't say anywhere he knew the person . In fact the only "source" provided that he knew the person and it was organised through them is yourself.

Another way of looking at it. With the Pull of Hammy, Alonso, Kimi even JB why would they speak to Horner? Why not go straight to the organ grinder? That way unless it's in Sebs contract he has a say. Not even Seb could Veto it if the big man wanted it.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I can't find any more detail than that, i'm just relying on memory from what i heard at the time and i can't remember the source

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Rule #25: Relation to the original topic decreases with every single post.
Rule #26: Any topic can be easily turned into something unrelated.

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Supporter of:

Fernando Alonso
Pastor Maldonado
Sergio Perez
Michael Schumacher
Lewis Hamilton

Is truly curious what insensible way transforms "Vettel what?" in "What happens with Lewis?" Predictable? Maybe.
In essence, everyone just talking at last about their own matters of interest.
If you take a look at any F1 forum, Ham & Alo are omnipresent. For sure they are two of the more representative drivers, but their presence are excesive by far.
For me, looks like from 2007, admit it or not, the pending match for many is Ham vs Alo, preferably with roughly matching machinery, to stablish who's the best realy.
Under this point of view. any thread becomes, sooner or latter, in one of the two, if not both, supporters against haters endless discussion, and all else lacks relevance.
I would enjoy this match if happens, but don't forget that the F1 circus is a lot more that two drivers, no matter how marvelous they are.

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A man is measured by the size of its rivals.

This thread has become a little bit too much like 4am party chat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOJ7vWgQdqM

They were teammates in 2007 - what do you mean to establish who is really the best? It is clearly Hamilton, who as a rookie, beat Alonso in equipment that was roughly matching. I think Hamilton would beat Alonso again in the same team with roughly equal equipment over the course of the season.

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I still reading this same (word by word) sentence from then, together with usual replicas: "same points, unfairly team approach, no truly rookie...".
If you think game is over, congratulations! You are one of sort with this clear and tough mindstate, but you know, don't you? there are some other people that don't agree, or maybe, simply want a second round to enjoy the show.
What do you think, wish a new match?

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A man is measured by the size of its rivals.

I think it would be a waste of time.

Alonso had far more experience than Hamilton in 2007. He was also a double champion. By virtue of having seen him race, we already knew he was a great driver. That didn't change after 2007 - he was still more experienced than Hamilton and still a double champion. In those terms he was a more seasoned driver and had accomplished much more - and in that way he was the better driver overall at the time. You can't take that away from Alonso.

Hamilton was a young gun rookie, a hotshot that came in and beat the 2 time champion - so he was better on the season - but not better than Alonso overall - of course not, he had only driven for 1 year.

In any other season, paired at the same team, either one could win again, and then we would be able to say the winner was best on the season - but it would not necessarily mean that the season winner was the best overall of the two. Now, both have experience, but maybe their career paths are going to be vastly different - so you would still have to wait until they retired to compare fairly. Otherwise you are just guessing.

I see no point in their racing one another again. If the joy was watching them race on the same team - we already saw it - and we already know that either could win. If the point is to "determine who is best overall of the two" - that is impossible. It was a miserable year for both drivers, why make them go through that again? It is pointless, imo.

I see no point in pairing either of them up with Vettel for the same reason. It tells you nothing. All you get is a winner on the season - and anyone could win. Again, you have to wait until they retire before you can compare their F1 careers.

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Once again, we got on the toboggan and when it arrives at the bottom of the hill, it's 2007 all over again and "Hamilton beat Alonso". It seems that no matter how many passengers or where you start on the hill, it always arrives at the same destination. Is there any topic or thread in the entire history of PF1 forum where someone doesn't interject "yea, but Hamilton..."?

How good is Vettel? He's darn quick, does what is asked of him and usually delivers, can handle pressure, is far ahead of anyone in career progression and setting records, and just won the WDC three years in a row.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Vettel

He's as good as it gets.

Impressive at least! With data on hand that could be the beginning of "Ever best driver" True that in motor racing, like any sport, kids begin younger every year, and youngest winner of something, means nothing, but aside that, the development of his carrer looks at Guines's book level. The next years well could be the gold age of F1.

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A man is measured by the size of its rivals.

In the future a driver will break vettel's records. Just like what happened to Lauda, Prost, Senna Schumi(vettel is closing in) etc

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Kimi talking about that gate in 2001 was a lie to cover up his shame. Christian Horner tipped him off about it before the race.

"If you ever scoot off the track at the final turn you can slip up the side road on the outside", Christian told Kimi.

Kimi pushed hard at that corner the whole race, knowing that if he outbraked himself he could always use that escape road.

Eventually Kimi did go off, and he found out to his disappointment that it was Christian Horner who knew what he was doing.

Doesn't make it any less impressive though does it?

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas

The truth is we cannot know. There are so many variables in the car and team that there are no absolute certainties with the top drivers in the sport. I think that if Alonso or Hamilton had been in the Red Bull the last three years they would probably all have won three world championships. With all of them when they're in the best car they tend to win, unless their teammate is also around their level. Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso all have relative strengths and weaknesses and I think until they go head to head we can never know. If Webber goes to Ferrari and we see him head to head with Alonso then we will learn more. Hamiltons just about mistake free and fast season in 2012 shows he is capable of doing what needs to be done. The team, reliability and circumstance didn't fall into place. Vettel and Red Bull deserved their titles. Vettel is a great driver but we cannot really be sure how he compares because we cannot disconnect the driver from the car and team to be sure. I voted for roughly at level with LH and FA.

It does not.

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Don't be too sure. Probably some records will be broken, but for example the "youngest triple WDC" might just hold forever.

The reason is, there are limits to it. No 16-year old will ever become a triple WDC, so somewhere between that age and 25 a driver will keep the record. Might be Vettel. Don't get me wrong, there is still room for improvement (it's not too hard to imagine an alternative reality where Brawn wouldn't have pulled an 2009 surprise, for example), but everything will have to be perfectly aligned for that to happen. Great talent, fast run through the feeder series, end up in a championship contending car immediately and then pull everything off.

Very good point about the youngest triple wdc, come to think of it all the records can be broken but that one looks like it might never be broken. Maybe Perez or Gutierrez

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Not Perez. Being born in Jan. 1990, when he now wins triple WDC's he'll be 25 and about 9 months and that is if he clinches the third one in October already.

Vettel was 25 and 4 months.

Gutierrez might, but will have to be in a top car in 2014 or his window is blown too (assuming he won't win the title in this years' Sauber).

It is quite scary that Vettel is a Triple Champion at such an age.
I'm 25 and 9 months, and I've won diddly-squat!

Is Felix Da Costa the next guy to challenge, realistically? Given his youth and the way everyone talks about him, he's the only viable possibility to me. Though looking at his record on Wiki, I'm wondering where the hype has come from...

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

Well when you're talking about breaking the youngest triple WDC record, he would have to win his first title in 2014. Seems impossible for someone that in 2013 won't even be in F1.

As for the hype: he did very well this year in FR3.5. Didn't participate in the full season. Only counting points for the races he took part in, he did the best of the whole field.

Isn't it scary, only a 90's child can break Vettel's records now. 90's child... I still consider 90's children as, well, children! Incredible.

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I think the youngest triple WDC is safe until the current crop of drivers that hold the top 6-8 cars are retired or lose form, simply because the kids won't have a chance to get in a car capable of winning titles let alone BEAT that crop of top guys.

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Good to throw in how Vettel would have managed with those other drivers as team-mates: imo Alonso would just shade Vettel for wins in same-cars; Sebastian and Hamilton would be about equal; in 2012 Vettel would just shade Kimi, but not by much.

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http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

Seb is a 3X WDC, so has proven himself to be a v good driver. Possibly one of the best ever, only time will tell.

Meanwhile, the other current 'top' generation of drivers (Alonso/Lewis/Kimi) have to prove that they are his equal - as they have less WDCs to their name.

Drivers' fans can come up with all the excuses they wish to explain why Seb has so many WDCs and their favourite driver doesn't - but that changes nothing.

Personally, I think that Seb has been v lucky in many ways, but he made the most of the advantages. The other 'top' drivers have also been in 'top' teams, but didn't make the most of their advantage for different reasons.

Edit - And I'm not a Seb fan (I hate his 'finger' and petulant attitude when things aren't going his way, as much as anyone!) - I just get tired of others trying to put down his achievements.

Or it could just be people replying to threads telling us how Vettel's 3 WDC's prove he is the best driver because the likes of Alonso, Hamilton and Kimi are unable to beat him, disregarding the fact that Vettel has had a superior car at his disposal

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The number of people putting Vettel down far outweigh the number of people saying he is the best driver because of the 3 WDC's.
Seriously, the amount of hate he's getting is ridiculous and the ways he has to prove himself (according to the detractors) changes every single time he does something they said he couldn't.

Would it be any different if (big if here) Seb had won in 09 too, being a 4x WDC at 25 and having the record of 4 years in competitive cars, 4 titles.

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In Interlagos, he won it 3 times
"And that's the man that can't race! Sebastian Vettel can only win from the front apparantly, I don't think so, that was amazing!"
14/11/10 Miracle
9/10/11 Double
25/11/12 Treble

Good to throw that in for those other drivers too - when they were going after their championships. Alonso didn't have any competition in 2005 and 2006 from a teammate and as it turned out, neither did Hamilton in 2008.

In fact, Vettel had the most daunting competition of the three in two of his championship bids, with Webber leading the championship itself for 3/4 of 2010 and leading Vettel by 8 points into the final. In 2012 Webber was again leading at the start, although fading more sharply at the end. But that is more competition than either Hamilton or Alonso had for their championship runs. Kimi came the closest in terms of competition from a teammate in his championship year.

Vettel's current competitors have not shown themselves to be more talented in that respect, so I would not say this aspect is important to the question of how good Vettel is in the current field.

If we are looking at "of all time" then it is vastly unfair to rate Vettel after only 5.5 years in F1. Senna and Prost had one another for their championship runs, sure, but we regard them in terms of their entire career. We'd have to compare Vettel's entire career to them - or at least give Vettel another 5 years or so, before we could legitimately talk about it from a 'best of all time' perspective, imo.

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