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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:17 pm 
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http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/8357956 ... -the-title
What do you think?
I think the pace was never the problem of the McLaren.
It's also not true, reliabillity did not cost them the title.
Quote:
The reason why we were not fighting for the title isn't just the reliability issues, the pace in that period of time wasn't good enough compared to our competitors."

At least it cost Lewis Hamilton the title by losing 2 secure ( almost ) wins, and quite a lot of points at Korea, Japan, China ( qualy). And McLaren probalbly the WCC if you count Jenson Buttons retitement at Monza and Hamiltons at Singapore, Abu Dhabi

This interview seems to be very odd, as the MP4-27 was always one of the fastest cars.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Maybe a subtle dig at Red Bull and Vettel. Button is a gentleman-- but like Hamilton must be a bit dismayed with the Red Bull superiority.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:37 pm 
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silkjet wrote:
Maybe a subtle dig at Red Bull and Vettel. Button is a gentleman-- but like Hamilton must be a bit dismayed with the Red Bull superiority.

The RBR was not really superior , the team was better.
Hamilton had more poles ( with Barcelona) than Vettel, but team mistakes & reliabillity cost the title &
Jenson Button cost his problems with set up a chance for the title fight

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:43 pm 
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^


Last edited by sandyf1 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:44 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.

This makes me wonder , too. If anything was good at McLaren this season it was the pace of the car

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:48 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.


Bahrain, Monaco when Lewis was complaining he couldn't go any faster, Valencia Remember only DNFs in front of them had Lewis up to third. The Lotus, RBRs and Ferrari were quicker.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.


Bahrain, Monaco when Lewis was complaining he couldn't go any faster, Valencia Remember only DNFs in front of them had Lewis up to third. The Lotus, RBRs and Ferrari were quicker.

Since when is qualifying on the first row of the grid slow ?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:05 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.


Bahrain, Monaco when Lewis was complaining he couldn't go any faster, Valencia Remember only DNFs in front of them had Lewis up to third. The Lotus, RBRs and Ferrari were quicker.

Since when is qualifying on the first row of the grid slow ?



And when was the last time Quali pace was indicative of race pace. Look at Ferrari and Merc as extreme examples of how it doesn't.

As I pointed out in another thread Lewis' fastest lap in Bahrain was over a second slower than the fastest lap.


In Valencia Lewis' Fastest lap was over a second down on Webber. (Ignoring rosbergs Fastest lap as I think he made a late stop for fresh rubber) And you also have to consider Lewis tyres going off before anyone else.

Is either the two of those stats indicative of having front running race pace?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.


Bahrain, Monaco when Lewis was complaining he couldn't go any faster, Valencia Remember only DNFs in front of them had Lewis up to third. The Lotus, RBRs and Ferrari were quicker.

Since when is qualifying on the first row of the grid slow ?



And when was the last time Quali pace was indicative of race pace. Look at Ferrari and Merc as extreme examples of how it doesn't.

As I pointed out in another thread Lewis' fastest lap in Bahrain was over a second slower than the fastest lap.


In Valencia Lewis' Fastest lap was over a second down on Webber. (Ignoring rosbergs Fastest lap as I think he made a late stop for fresh rubber) And you also have to consider Lewis tyres going off before anyone else.

Is either the two of those stats indicative of having front running race pace?

Just 3 tenths off kimi and alonso who had stopped at the same time.Webber if i recall stopped after the safety car came in.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/24/2 ... test-laps/
Bahrain hamilton had stopped a couple of laps earlier compared to vettel and rejoined right behind alonso. He was hardly able to show the true pace of the macca.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:52 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Just 3 tenths off kimi and alonso who had stopped at the same time.Webber if i recall stopped after the safety car came in.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/24/2 ... test-laps/
Bahrain hamilton had stopped a couple of laps earlier compared to vettel and rejoined right behind alonso. He was hardly able to show the true pace of the macca.



And is 3 tenths off second place man because of two leaders DNFing and slower because of being harder on tyres having a car that is front line race pace? Remember Kimi was able to pass Lewis and immediately pull a gap. Alonso was also able to pull a gap.

In Bahrain the car was harder on the tyres hurting it's pace. How can you say the car was on the pace of the front runners if it is losing time and having to pit two laps sooner due eating tyres quicker?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Not sure the folks back at woking will be pleased with that statement. I think only at silverstone they had a lack of pace.


Bahrain, Monaco when Lewis was complaining he couldn't go any faster, Valencia Remember only DNFs in front of them had Lewis up to third. The Lotus, RBRs and Ferrari were quicker.

Monaco has usually not much to do with pace. Strategy was the problem.
Bahrain: 3 slow pit stops cost Hamilton a much better result
Valencia was more about tyre wear than pace
Barcelona the car was one of the fastest
Canada & Hungary Hamilton won, so the pace was there when the team made no mistakes.

Would a better pace at those 3 races won McLaren the titles? Compared to the amout of point they lost due reliabillity ot slow stops, team mistakes?
For Jenson Button, would a faster car have really helped him, during his slump from Bahrain till Gemany?
I doubt this.

Btw I did not hear Hamilton complain about being too slow at those races you listed up.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
This interview seems to be very odd, as the MP4-27 was always one of the fastest cars.


Nothing odd about it. The statement by Jenson falls well within his subset of alibis.

McLaren could've won either or both championships (with some luck in the reliability department) if their drivers put in the same drives as the top 3 on tracks where McLaren had the upper hand. Its been over a month since the championship ended but there is no end to Jenson's reasons.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Just 3 tenths off kimi and alonso who had stopped at the same time.Webber if i recall stopped after the safety car came in.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/24/2 ... test-laps/
Bahrain hamilton had stopped a couple of laps earlier compared to vettel and rejoined right behind alonso. He was hardly able to show the true pace of the macca.



And is 3 tenths off second place man because of two leaders DNFing and slower because of being harder on tyres having a car that is front line race pace? Remember Kimi was able to pass Lewis and immediately pull a gap. Alonso was also able to pull a gap.

In Bahrain the car was harder on the tyres hurting it's pace. How can you say the car was on the pace of the front runners if it is losing time and having to pit two laps sooner due eating tyres quicker?

Regarding bahrain, Raikkonen was 7 tenths off vettel's fastest lap , so fastest lap in a race is no indication of front running pace .Hamilton could have driven more intelligently but that has never been his strongest characteristic. And what is wrong with mclaren stopping a couple of laps early? At that stage of the season undercutting was the far better option.
Truth is hamilton lost out on a possible championship due to reliability issues. In button's case ,even if he had no reliability issues he wouldn't have been competing for the championship.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:28 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Just 3 tenths off kimi and alonso who had stopped at the same time.Webber if i recall stopped after the safety car came in.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/24/2 ... test-laps/
Bahrain hamilton had stopped a couple of laps earlier compared to vettel and rejoined right behind alonso. He was hardly able to show the true pace of the macca.



And is 3 tenths off second place man because of two leaders DNFing and slower because of being harder on tyres having a car that is front line race pace? Remember Kimi was able to pass Lewis and immediately pull a gap. Alonso was also able to pull a gap.

In Bahrain the car was harder on the tyres hurting it's pace. How can you say the car was on the pace of the front runners if it is losing time and having to pit two laps sooner due eating tyres quicker?

.....
Truth is hamilton lost out on a possible championship due to reliability issues. In button's case ,even if he had no reliability issues he wouldn't have been competing for the championship.

:thumbup: This

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:35 pm 
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He is wrong.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:08 pm 
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No Jenson, the reason that cost you the title was you having a ton of crap races.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:18 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Regarding bahrain, Raikkonen was 7 tenths off vettel's fastest lap , so fastest lap in a race is no indication of front running pace .Hamilton could have driven more intelligently but that has never been his strongest characteristic. And what is wrong with mclaren stopping a couple of laps early? At that stage of the season undercutting was the far better option.
Truth is hamilton lost out on a possible championship due to reliability issues. In button's case ,even if he had no reliability issues he wouldn't have been competing for the championship.


In Bahrain Lewis was complaining about his tyres a few laps it wasn't about undercutting but losing time due to the tyre deg before he actually pitted he was complaining on the radio a number of laps before he came in .

It is an indication of what the car was capable of The Lotus' and Red bulls were capable of more add that in with the extra tyre wear over everyone else and do you get a competitive package? Can you consider a car that is slower AND eating up the tyres harder as having the pace of the front runners?

Haribo wrote:

Monaco has usually not much to do with pace. Strategy was the problem.
Bahrain: 3 slow pit stops cost Hamilton a much better result
Valencia was more about tyre wear than pace
Barcelona the car was one of the fastest
Canada & Hungary Hamilton won, so the pace was there when the team made no mistakes.

Would a better pace at those 3 races won McLaren the titles? Compared to the amout of point they lost due reliabillity ot slow stops, team mistakes?
For Jenson Button, would a faster car have really helped him, during his slump from Bahrain till Gemany?
I doubt this.

Btw I did not hear Hamilton complain about being too slow at those races you listed up.


In Monaco he was complaining about not being able to go any faster on the radio. Yet when in clean air Seb was able to pull faster laps as was Alonso. So you have two Red Bulls a Ferrari and a Merc all able to lap faster.

before he made his 1st stop IIRC.

Valencia if you are slow due to excess tyre wear have you the pace?

I foolishly thought if a car was slower it was slower regardless of the reasons why. What next it wasn't off the pace just had bad [enter name of dodgy component here] ? the tyres are just another part of the car, if it isn't working them right and that slows the car then they reduce the cars pace. Otherwise you might as well say the Merc had the pace this year. They were slow due to tyres. But no one suggests they had the pace all season.

Who mentioned Barca, Canada or Hungry?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Samaritan wrote:
Troll post removed.


For christ sake would you please just cut the fairy cakes out? Its boring and your opinion doesn't need to be reposted for the millionth time...

We all know you hate Button and you think Hamilton is the driving God.. But please just stop with the bash fest.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:44 pm 
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McLaren lost their way slightly from late spring-the summer break, but it was more a case of them/Jenson not being able to get the tyres working for a few races than the car lacking outright speed.

Red Bull had a similiar period at the start of the season when they didn't have the quickest car but they got points on the board and won both championships. Ferrari never had the quickest car and still beat McLaren in the WCC.

Confusing comments. McLaren didn't do as good a job as either RB or Ferrari....simple as.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
sandyf1 wrote:
Regarding bahrain, Raikkonen was 7 tenths off vettel's fastest lap , so fastest lap in a race is no indication of front running pace .Hamilton could have driven more intelligently but that has never been his strongest characteristic. And what is wrong with mclaren stopping a couple of laps early? At that stage of the season undercutting was the far better option.
Truth is hamilton lost out on a possible championship due to reliability issues. In button's case ,even if he had no reliability issues he wouldn't have been competing for the championship.


In Bahrain Lewis was complaining about his tyres a few laps it wasn't about undercutting but losing time due to the tyre deg before he actually pitted he was complaining on the radio a number of laps before he came in .

It is an indication of what the car was capable of The Lotus' and Red bulls were capable of more add that in with the extra tyre wear over everyone else and do you get a competitive package? Can you consider a car that is slower AND eating up the tyres harder as having the pace of the front runners?

Haribo wrote:

Monaco has usually not much to do with pace. Strategy was the problem.
Bahrain: 3 slow pit stops cost Hamilton a much better result
Valencia was more about tyre wear than pace
Barcelona the car was one of the fastest
Canada & Hungary Hamilton won, so the pace was there when the team made no mistakes.

Would a better pace at those 3 races won McLaren the titles? Compared to the amout of point they lost due reliabillity ot slow stops, team mistakes?
For Jenson Button, would a faster car have really helped him, during his slump from Bahrain till Gemany?
I doubt this.

Btw I did not hear Hamilton complain about being too slow at those races you listed up.


In Monaco he was complaining about not being able to go any faster on the radio. Yet when in clean air Seb was able to pull faster laps as was Alonso. So you have two Red Bulls a Ferrari and a Merc all able to lap faster.

before he made his 1st stop IIRC.

Valencia if you are slow due to excess tyre wear have you the pace?

I foolishly thought if a car was slower it was slower regardless of the reasons why. What next it wasn't off the pace just had bad [enter name of dodgy component here] ? the tyres are just another part of the car, if it isn't working them right and that slows the car then they reduce the cars pace. Otherwise you might as well say the Merc had the pace this year. They were slow due to tyres. But no one suggests they had the pace all season.

Who mentioned Barca, Canada or Hungry?

So, the 3 races you mentioned, where McLaren made it worse due to mistakes cost them the titles?
Where would Jenson have been at:
Bahrain with a faster car 15? or 11th instead of 18th?
Valencia 6th instead of 8th?
Monaco 12th insted of hitting a Caterham?

Lewis:
maybe 3rd at Bahrain (without the slow stops)
3rd at Monaco
2nd at Valencia? with more pace & without Maldonado

Buttons statement about lacking pace cost them the titles, is BullSh**!
Whom does he try to fool?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
So, the 3 races you mentioned, where McLaren made it worse due to mistakes cost them the titles?
Where would Jenson have been at:
Bahrain with a faster car 15? or 11th instead of 18th?
Valencia 6th instead of 8th?
Monaco 12th insted of hitting a Caterham?

Lewis:
maybe 3rd at Bahrain (without the slow stops)
3rd at Monaco
2nd at Valencia? with more pace & without Maldonado

Buttons statement about lacking pace cost them the titles, is BullSh**!
Whom does he try to fool?

Umm Jenson in would have likely still been 18th or even lower considering he DNF'd with a broken diff and Exhaust.

Valencia who knows.

Monaco, he lost out in quali due to a yellow IIRC and then caught up in the start melee . Would a faster car have helped around there in those circumstances?

Anyway a lot of buttons problems weren't due to the pace of the car. It was getting the tyres to work. We seen what he could do when the tyres did work for him. Just like with Lewis. When either driver couldn't get the best use out of them the pace dropped and they dropped back.

even Paul Hembrey commented on JB and the tyres.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
So, the 3 races you mentioned, where McLaren made it worse due to mistakes cost them the titles?
Where would Jenson have been at:
Bahrain with a faster car 15? or 11th instead of 18th?
Valencia 6th instead of 8th?
Monaco 12th insted of hitting a Caterham?

Lewis:
maybe 3rd at Bahrain (without the slow stops)
3rd at Monaco
2nd at Valencia? with more pace & without Maldonado

Buttons statement about lacking pace cost them the titles, is BullSh**!
Whom does he try to fool?

Umm Jenson in would have likely still been 18th or even lower considering he DNF'd with a broken diff and Exhaust.

Valencia who knows.

Monaco, he lost out in quali due to a yellow IIRC and then caught up in the start melee . Would a faster car have helped around there in those circumstances?

Anyway a lot of buttons problems weren't due to the pace of the car. It was getting the tyres to work. We seen what he could do when the tyres did work for him. Just like with Lewis. When either driver couldn't get the best use out of them the pace dropped and they dropped back.

even Paul Hembrey commented on JB and the tyres.

Here we go, the pace of the car was really not the main problem of Mclaren & Jenson Button 2012.
His results at his midseason slump would not have been very different even with a faster car.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Here we go, the pace of the car was really not the main problem of Mclaren & Jenson Button 2012.
His results at his midseason slump would not have been very different even with a faster car.



Probably not as his main problem was the tyres. Make the car quicker but keep the way it worked the tyres the same and he would have been no better off would he?

For example Canada. How would having a faster car, but keeping the way it worked the tyres the same have helped? We seen how quick the car was when the tyres worked.

They could have added a turbo to the Merc. Would it have helped when the pace was limited by the rubber?

It's the same scenario Merc have been in for about 18 of 20 races.

Edit does anyone else find it funny that usually I'm wrong and "bashing" Lewis. This time I've been defending him and I'm still wrong :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Button's pace and Hamilton's retirements cost Mclaren both Titles

This isn't my opinion, it's a fact!!!


Last edited by MclarenBullet on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:57 pm 
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From the second season ended Button seems to have really big mouth. Blaming the car for his own shortcomings, stating it was general lack of pace, not his own inability to drive as fast as Lewis could, and of course boasting about leading the team in 2013 while grinning like a Cheshire cat.

I keep fingers crossed and hope next year Button will be as shocked as Alonso was in 2007 when this new guy came in and stunned so-called leader of McLaren at that time.


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Samaritan wrote:
Troll post removed.

:lol:

I see what you are trying to do.. Will not work. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
From the second season ended Button seems to have really big mouth. Blaming the car for his own shortcomings, stating it was general lack of pace, not his own inability to drive as fast as Lewis could, and of course boasting about leading the team in 2013 while grinning like a Cheshire cat.

I keep fingers crossed and hope next year Button will be as shocked as Alonso was in 2007 when this new guy came in and stunned so-called leader of McLaren at that time.



So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
From the second season ended Button seems to have really big mouth. Blaming the car for his own shortcomings, stating it was general lack of pace, not his own inability to drive as fast as Lewis could, and of course boasting about leading the team in 2013 while grinning like a Cheshire cat.

I keep fingers crossed and hope next year Button will be as shocked as Alonso was in 2007 when this new guy came in and stunned so-called leader of McLaren at that time.



So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Jenson's pace was shocking to be honest, he let the team down big time in many races.

Mclaren cost Lewis the Drivers Championship, Mclaren and Jenson cost Mclaren the constructors


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:16 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
From the second season ended Button seems to have really big mouth. Blaming the car for his own shortcomings, stating it was general lack of pace, not his own inability to drive as fast as Lewis could, and of course boasting about leading the team in 2013 while grinning like a Cheshire cat.

I keep fingers crossed and hope next year Button will be as shocked as Alonso was in 2007 when this new guy came in and stunned so-called leader of McLaren at that time.



So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Jenson's pace was shocking to be honest, he let the team down big time in many races.

Mclaren cost Lewis the Drivers Championship, Mclaren and Jenson cost Mclaren the constructors


So did his pace cause the tyre problems in Canada or did the tyres cause the pace problems?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
From the second season ended Button seems to have really big mouth. Blaming the car for his own shortcomings, stating it was general lack of pace, not his own inability to drive as fast as Lewis could, and of course boasting about leading the team in 2013 while grinning like a Cheshire cat.

I keep fingers crossed and hope next year Button will be as shocked as Alonso was in 2007 when this new guy came in and stunned so-called leader of McLaren at that time.



So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Jenson's pace was shocking to be honest, he let the team down big time in many races.

Mclaren cost Lewis the Drivers Championship, Mclaren and Jenson cost Mclaren the constructors


So did his pace cause the tyre problems in Canada or did the tyres cause the pace problems?


Lewis had the same tyres, please don't start sounding like Jenson 'Excuse' Button


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:29 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:

Jenson's pace was shocking to be honest, he let the team down big time in many races.

Mclaren cost Lewis the Drivers Championship, Mclaren and Jenson cost Mclaren the constructors


So did his pace cause the tyre problems in Canada or did the tyres cause the pace problems?[/quote]

Lewis had the same tyres, please don't start sounding like Jenson 'Excuse' Button[/quote]

And they also had the same set up.

But as I am sure you are aware the car tyres and driver all have to be dialled into each other.

what happens if they are not?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Armchair Expert wrote:
Blaming the car for his own shortcomings


which means chasing set-up like his own tail and racing Caterham, while Lewis took a win.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:

Jenson's pace was shocking to be honest, he let the team down big time in many races.

Mclaren cost Lewis the Drivers Championship, Mclaren and Jenson cost Mclaren the constructors


So did his pace cause the tyre problems in Canada or did the tyres cause the pace problems?


Lewis had the same tyres, please don't start sounding like Jenson 'Excuse' Button[/quote]

And they also had the same set up.

But as I am sure you are aware the car tyres and driver all have to be dialled into each other.

what happens if they are not?[/quote]

For Jenson, if the car is slighty off balance he is one of the worst drivers in the field, when everything is perfect he is one of the best.

For me and many this is why he isn't on Lewis's level, i hope for Jenson's sake Mclaren give he a car and setup that is perfect for him every race otherwise he will sruggle.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
Johnston wrote:
So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Armchair Expert wrote:
Blaming the car for his own shortcomings


which means chasing set-up like his own tail and racing Caterham, while Lewis took a win.


Chasing set up? If you actually remember he got no Friday practice due to a gearbox fault. So there is two sessions he couldn't chase set up.

It went into Saturday with Lewis' set up which included a special Montreal spec wishbone layout that he wasn't originally supposed to use.

Which brings me back to . If you don't get the car dialled in to the tyres and to suit the driver then no matter how quick the core car is you won't have the pace.

Canada is the perfect example as the cars were virtually identical however the difference in style meant one car wasn't able to get the most out of it. Which as for Button brings me back to Hembreys comments.

No matter how quick the caris unless it can use the tyres effectively the pace won't be there. In Canada one car did and one car didn't. that resulted in them living in different ends of the results.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Here we go, the pace of the car was really not the main problem of Mclaren & Jenson Button 2012.
His results at his midseason slump would not have been very different even with a faster car.



Probably not as his main problem was the tyres. Make the car quicker but keep the way it worked the tyres the same and he would have been no better off would he?

For example Canada. How would having a faster car, but keeping the way it worked the tyres the same have helped? We seen how quick the car was when the tyres worked.

They could have added a turbo to the Merc. Would it have helped when the pace was limited by the rubber?

It's the same scenario Merc have been in for about 18 of 20 races.

Edit does anyone else find it funny that usually I'm wrong and "bashing" Lewis. This time I've been defending him and I'm still wrong :lol:

It's Buttons excuse, wich is wrong, about the lack of pace.
As you say ,the pace was there, if the tyres were worked correctly, wich one McLaren driver was able to do.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
From the second season ended Button seems to have really big mouth. Blaming the car for his own shortcomings, stating it was general lack of pace, not his own inability to drive as fast as Lewis could, and of course boasting about leading the team in 2013 while grinning like a Cheshire cat.

I keep fingers crossed and hope next year Button will be as shocked as Alonso was in 2007 when this new guy came in and stunned so-called leader of McLaren at that time.



So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Jenson's pace was shocking to be honest, he let the team down big time in many races.

Mclaren cost Lewis the Drivers Championship, Mclaren and Jenson cost Mclaren the constructors


So did his pace cause the tyre problems in Canada or did the tyres cause the pace problems?

His inabillity to warm up the tyres caused the problems

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
It's Buttons excuse, wich is wrong, about the lack of pace.
As you say ,the pace was there, if the tyres were worked correctly, wich one McLaren driver was able to do.



And as the Macca seemed to have a small window in some races they couldn't and therefore the pace wasn't there.

saying that they had pace but they didn't get the tyres working correctly is the same assaying they had the pace but the aero wasn't working. Or Lewis had the pace in Spa he just didn't get the rear wing working. The tyres are just another component on the car. Like any other component to get the pace you have to get them working right.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
Johnston wrote:
So in Canada for example his lack of pace caused the tyres to wear more?


Armchair Expert wrote:
Blaming the car for his own shortcomings


which means chasing set-up like his own tail and racing Caterham, while Lewis took a win.


Chasing set up? If you actually remember he got no Friday practice due to a gearbox fault. So there is two sessions he couldn't chase set up.

It went into Saturday with Lewis' set up which included a special Montreal spec wishbone layout that he wasn't originally supposed to use.

Which brings me back to . If you don't get the car dialled in to the tyres and to suit the driver then no matter how quick the core car is you won't have the pace.

Canada is the perfect example as the cars were virtually identical however the difference in style meant one car wasn't able to get the most out of it. Which as for Button brings me back to Hembreys comments.



So according to the same logic, Badoer was not incapable in Spa 2009, his driving style was just not in line with the race winning car?

This myth of Jenson coming good only with a car perfectly suited to his driving is something he created to mask his mediocrity which seems to sell well among his fans in denial.


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