planetf1.com

No race is guaranteed at 1/3 distance.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Obviously not if you're driving a McLaren, i thought that was the point?

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They original quote was Would. I changed it to something more realistic

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

You said "as evidenced by [irrelevant info] and [hypothetical results]".

That's not the kind of evidence is want to take to court

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I meant Button, blaming the floor for falling on it.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

The race pace was very, fast, too.
When Hamilton lost pos in the race it was never due lacking pace, it always had other reasons, like mechanical problems, bad pit stops etc.
McLarens race pace was fine.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Mercs pace is irrelevant. It proves nothing for McLaren.
McLaren had 8 ( with barcelona 9) poles
and 7 wins. It could have been 10
If a car had the potential to win at least 50% of all GPs a season, it is fast.

Even Whitmarsh said :We have underperformed. We haven't done a good enough job in a number of different ways but we've had a quick car and that is an achievement.
"We have done some good things but we haven't nailed it in the way I would have liked.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

But this is not a court but an internet forum, are you saying that the McLaren wasn't fast enough to win the WDC for one of their drivers?

When we're looking at reliability issues of course we are taking into consideration what might have happened in order to estimate how much reliability faults cost them, and i don't think that analysing the point loss from reliability is irrelevant to the discussion of which cost them more, a lack of pace or reliability problems.

But then again you are partly right because this whole discussion is irrelevant, the fact is Button is making excuses, who is genuinely going to deny that without McLaren errors Hamilton wouldn't have had a great chance at winning the WDC? Which shows that the McLaren had enough pace to win the title. How can a car that i've read so many say was the fastest of the season not be fast enough to win the WDC? Why did Hamilton not challenge for the title until the end? It certainly wasn't because he or the McLaren lacked pace.

Actually I tend to agree - I was kind of meaning more in the 'vibe' sense of an artist/musician - getting in the 'flow' of natural outpourings or 'art/expression'! - but yeah, as you suggest, JB possibly doesn't have much 'original' expression in him!

I already said pace wasn't their issue, but I base that on consistently competitive race laps at nearly every round, which is both relevant and factual, not based on qual or hypothetical results. Give better care in considering your basis for an opinion is all I'm saying.

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i prefer to watch the races rather than live timing

pace was the one thing they got right.

I think the context of this thread has gone over your head.

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PLAY A RECORD KARL COS I'M GUNNA KNOCK YOU OUT!!!

Ah, sorry for the mix up.

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PLAY A RECORD KARL COS I'M GUNNA KNOCK YOU OUT!!!

Thing is when you look at the quote in the PF1 site



when he said "Us" who is "Us"? who is "We"

McLaren as a whole or his side of the garage?

If you look he also said



Now Lewis wasn't trying new things. So does he Mean "We" as in just his side?

and can any one argue that the tyres didn't slow the pace of his car?

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I think you're right - it's the F1 "we", as in "me." As others have alluded to, without the mechanical/operational issues it seems as if one of the Maccas might have had a decent shot at the title, but if Button is saying that he didn't have the pace to challenge for the title, I think it's fair to agree with him.

Exactly its quite ridiculous to suggest that the Mclaren lacked race pace when it had 7 wins which should have been 10 wins if not for factors unrelated to poor race pace

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Then you can say he's using the word "we" so as not to put any blame onto himself

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I suppose quite often we hear "we" used in both "we won" and "we lost", so it all balances out I'm sure.

#

Like all drivers he's only a part of the equation.

It is a team sport after all and he's not entirely responsible for the issues.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

No i actually find the wording quite interesting, when Button first joined McLaren a lot was made of the wording used in early press releases, Hamilton would say we, Button would say I, now to explain the 2012 lack of performance he's using the term we, if things go well for him next season it will be interesting to see which terminology he uses.

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Button struggled from May to July, consistently finishing outside the top six, but those performances helped the team in a way, Button added.

"We tried new things because I struggled to get tyre temperature more than most, and it didn't work, it just destroyed the tyres around Monaco and Canada time," he said.

"Lewis had a good race in Canada and I had such a bad race, and it was good for the rest of the year in a way because we had the two extremes so we could look at the data, get in the simulator, change the balance around, and work out why I had so much degradation and he didn't.

"It was really useful to learn what you can and cannot do with the tyres, because it's different to what you'd usually think."

Right here is what may be worrying Jenson if he meets these issues again next season he won't have Lewis's data to bring him back on track .

You will notice that he feels it was useful for the team when he struggled between May and July !!

He could have looked at Hamiltons data much erlier instead of keeping on the wrong route. would have helped them much more. They lost time, resources and WCC points

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Is he the one who looks at the data?

No I don't think he does Lewis said he walked in and found both sides of the garage pouring over his data to get Jenson up to speed .

Ummmmmm

Picture the scene in a Press conference

Question for Lewis "how do you think working with Jenson go"?
Lewis: I think we will work well together


Question for Jenson "Jenson why did you choose to leave Brawn for McLaren"?
Jenson: I wanted to come to a team that is proven to challenge every year and I wanted to race against who I think is the fastest driver on the grid in the same equipment


Yes the wording is interesting and is usually the product of the question that leads it

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Multi 21 or Catch 22?!

It ain't hating just 'cause it's not love

How? Jenson said they lacked pace, most people disagree, some give reasons for why they disagree, and some of those reasons are not real evidence, some people debate what he meant.

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some are watching the darts sipping on Bushmills Finest

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

half my twitter feed is talking about darts...people in this country don't care about darts, let alone watch it on tv

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I don't recall Lewis ever saying that. I remember the team and Jenson saying that they used the base setup Lewis had pre Valencia and started again from there as they know that this was a good baseline to start with again after loosing their way.

Anyhow what you said proves that actually the setup changes that made Jenson not competitive and then got him back competitive were not his own responsibility but rather the team (or his side of the garage at least) since they are the ones who fixed it. So for what he is saying yes for him the car lacked pace from his perspective. From Lewis' no that never happened.

I believe the team let him down in terms of setting up his car just as much as they let Lewis down with their reliability. but the car on its own always had the potential

I doubt that JB and his side of the team will ever need to look at the other driver data, he is a very well season veteran and his own racecraft and smooth driving style will take care of the rest, he will have a field day with the competition now that lulu left and he's in charge of directing the input on how to develop the car. I put good money on the line he will be champion by 3/4 of next season, mark my words.

Every driver can benefit from two cars worth of data vs. one, because every engineer can do more with more data.

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Apart from the time this year when all the race engineers were pouring over Hamilton's data with Button in attendance, to find out what he was doing differently to Button

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Wow

Hahaha, ask Rubens Baricello, ask Lewis Hamillton, ask Jenson Button himself




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... rack.html#

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Pretty sure Lewis used Jensons set up at least once this year too.

Maybe so but aren't we talking about pouring through someones data to see how they are driving differently to you?

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It's not "Someones Data"

It's McLarens Data.


McLaren owns it and they can do whatever they want with it.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I think you missed where the thread was going that Button doesn't need to look at the data of another driver

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Why should he?

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso