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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:49 am 
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Watching Nico Hulkenberg battle it out with the elite towards the end of this year, really excited me and I think he will be the next addition to the "big three". His performances at spa and brazil were breathtaking and contrasted with Di restas boring and average racing.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:31 am 
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Jakhannaby wrote:
Watching Nico Hulkenberg battle it out with the elite towards the end of this year, really excited me and I think he will be the next addition to the "big three". His performances at spa and brazil were breathtaking and contrasted with Di restas boring and average racing.


As you must be aware, many think it's a side step going to Sauber, which I don't think so. On an average, the Sauber is a better car than Force India, atleast from the Aerodynamics point of view. Sauber as a car is very tyre friendly, which is why the podium finishes in this car in 2012 were due to tyre strategies.

Hulk if gets the same quality car or better, he for sure will have the potential to score podiums. Since the Sauber is powered by a Ferrari engine, many do believe he could be replacing Massa in 2014.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Sometimes you can have an opinion of someone that they are going to be really good only to then get disappointed, this seemed to be the case in Hulkenberg's rookie year at Williams. However his career seems to be very much on the ascendency again, much may still depend on next year's Sauber though.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:44 pm 
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His performance in Spa wasn't anything special, he just benefited from Crashjean mayhem. Brazil was a great performance and if he can keep it up he may well be poached by Ferrari or maybe even Red Bull, it all depends on how he does next season.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:36 am 
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McLaren rushed into a decision signing Perez, Hulk should have been the man they picked up. Perez has had some good results due to unusual tyre stratergys, Nico got his results from good driving.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:40 am 
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Yep, I still believe Mclaren should have gone with Hulk...but perhaps it was a decision led by sponsorship opportunities rather than out and out pace.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:49 am 
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Classic wrote:
McLaren rushed into a decision signing Perez, Hulk should have been the man they picked up. Perez has had some good results due to unusual tyre stratergys, Nico got his results from good driving.


True. Sauber was 1 of the best tyre friendly cars. Most of the teams found it hard to understand the tyres this year but Sauber by luck, had something in their car which made the car easy on tyres. Having good tyre life meant a big advantage this season, which helped Perez.

Sauber overall was a better car than Force India but Hulk tried his best to get god results & be consistent. After signing with Mclaren, Perez failed to score in about 6 races. Was it over confidence of going to McLaren or careless attitude towards the Sauber team for catching Mercedes?

If Hulk's junior racing records were to have some saying, he will shine sooner or later.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:54 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Classic wrote:
McLaren rushed into a decision signing Perez, Hulk should have been the man they picked up. Perez has had some good results due to unusual tyre stratergys, Nico got his results from good driving.


True. Sauber was 1 of the best tyre friendly cars. Most of the teams found it hard to understand the tyres this year but Sauber by luck, had something in their car which made the car easy on tyres. Having good tyre life meant a big advantage this season, which helped Perez.

Sauber overall was a better car than Force India but Hulk tried his best to get god results & be consistent. After signing with Mclaren, Perez failed to score in about 6 races. Was it over confidence of going to McLaren or careless attitude towards the Sauber team for catching Mercedes?

If Hulk's junior racing records were to have some saying, he will shine sooner or later.


It's not so much the tyre life that matters, but the ability to pull out consistent lap times over a long period. Look at Perez in Monza, even on the prime tyre he was faster than some of his competitors around him on options. At that point of the race he should've been playing a damage limitation game. The fact that he was able to attack made his strategy look much more favorable than it really was. Sure, he had an advantage, but he made the most of it. He earned that result.

I really do believe that if the Sauber was so strong in that area, Kobayashi would've been able to pull off some similar performances. The Sauber has definitely been the kindest car to tyres since Pirelli entered the sport, but pretty much all evidence of that comes from Sergio's races.

Perez failed to score in the last six but that wasn't all his fault. I don't think he became over-confident, but I do think he gained a 'nothing to lose' mentality which made him take risks he might not try otherwise. At least he was still fast. He dominated Kobayashi in qualifying towards the end of the season, and was running well in several races before he ran into trouble/bad luck.

The biggest problem for Sauber was that a lot of circuits towards the end of the season didn't favour Sauber. That car was only a frontrunner at fast, flowing tracks such as Catalunya, Silverstone, Spa and Suzuka. At other tracks, it was average at best, and at slow tracks like Hungary and Singapore, it was uncompetitive. Only Suzuka and possibly Austin fit into the 'fast, flowing' category, and their lack of pace in Austin indicates they may have fallen away in the development race.

Junior formulae records mean nothing in F1. If they did, Jan Magnussen and Tommy Byrne would've been top racers, and Vettel would be nothing special. I'm not bashing Hulkenberg here by any means - He was truly exceptional in the last few races and has really proved me wrong. But we've yet to see him start a season as well as he can finish one. That should come with experience, but it's far too early to say he is the next star. He has the potential, just like Perez does, but I don't think either of them is the next Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Agree, a great future talent but not someone who can excite me. The car looked poor most of the time in Di Resta's hands but in Nico's it was almost always challenging in the midfield. He is consistently good in a way I would compare to Vettel or maybe Jenson Button but not someone who can be absoultley amazing at times albeit sometimes terrible like Hamilton or for that matter Perez. Perez has proven himself capable of some amazing driving at times, battles through the field, closing up on better cars and drivers. Yes you could atribute that to the car but look at Kobayashi (this is rare criticsm of him coming from me), he has worn his tyres out generally quite quickly wheras Perez can handle them better. And like it or not, Hulkenberg threw away a shot at a win and has not proven himself in any normal race, Brazil was wet and a good strategy call and in Belgium at lot of quicker cars were smashed out. I think if you give him a dominant car he will be champion but I doubt he would have achieved anything near Alonso if you put him in this years Ferrari. You might think its harsh but I just dont see him as someone with much more to give. And I think next year he wont be able to achieve much for Sauber as just because they looked good last year dosnt mean they will be better in 2013, plus James Key is not designing their car next year.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:23 pm 
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For me, it's Maldonado

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Classic wrote:
McLaren rushed into a decision signing Perez, Hulk should have been the man they picked up. Perez has had some good results due to unusual tyre stratergys, Nico got his results from good driving.


McLaren made contact with Perez at European GP, in June. That's 3 months before signing him. Is that rushing according to you?

Should? Who are you to tell McLaren which driver they need to sign? They have tons of data, you have what... an opinion?

So Hulkenberg's drive at Interlagos wasn't unusual tyre strategy? Because only he and Button went for that strategy, which means it was unusual. Next - Spa. 6 drivers in faster cars were eliminated in first lap mayhem, which means Hulk would probably finish 10th, not 4th. Next - Valencia. Grosjean and Vettel DNFed because of alternators, Hamilton and Maldonado collided, which means he would only finish 9th on merit, not 5th. Meanwhile Perez in Malaysia finished 2nd on merit, as Vettel, Kobayashi and Grosjean, all DNFed, would finish long behind him. Canada - 3rd on merit, others couldn't maintain pace on their strategies. Monza - 2nd, maybe he would finish 3rd if not for Button retiring, but still, he was as fast or faster than others in both stints.

It's very easy to bellitle someone's achievements, but I rather would trust McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari, who were interested in both Perez and Hulkenberg, therefore they rate both of them at high level. Who is better we don't know, but in 2013 we will learn how good Perez is.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:58 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Sauber overall was a better car than Force India but Hulk tried his best to get god results & be consistent. After signing with Mclaren, Perez failed to score in about 6 races. Was it over confidence of going to McLaren or careless attitude towards the Sauber team for catching Mercedes?


And McLaren was overall better car than Ferrari, yet they lost to Reds in WCC. More or less the same reasons are for only 20 points gap between Force India and Sauber and Hulk being so close to Perez in WDC.

In 2 cases it was his over-aggressiveness. In one case he was innocent victim in Senna-Vettel collision. In one case it was brakes fading only after 10 laps. In one case it was huge blister in the middle of the tyre only few laps into race and as the race was one stopper, it finished pretty much at that point. In one case his team did the very best to absolutely destroy any chance of fighting for points. There you have it, summary of last 6 races.

Most people don't care about midfield (which is a shame btw, I follow it very closely as it's fantastic to watch what young drivers who I rate are capable of), but for example in Korea, after which Hulkenberg was praised (and rightly so), Perez was right on his tail until first round of stops. But then Sauber made terrible strategy decision and abysmal stop. In that race Perez and Hulkenberg were equally fast, yet only Hulk is praised becuase his team actually did everything to help him, while Sauber did everything to destroy race of Perez. The end result - Hulk 6th, Perez 11th. That's how unfair F1 sometimes is.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Classic wrote:
McLaren rushed into a decision signing Perez, Hulk should have been the man they picked up. Perez has had some good results due to unusual tyre stratergys, Nico got his results from good driving.


Why does everybody keep saying all Perez results are due to strategy, really? He has outpaced his teammate in almost every race

Monza: Went 1 stop like most of other drivers, where´s the luck there? He started with hards and managed to have SAME pace as other with softs, then took advantage when switched to softs, this is no luck, he drove flawlessly

Malaysia: Yes, the early pitstop worked great in the SAME WAY Hulk got advantage at Brazil by keeping his slicks and having two pitstops less than everyone else. At the end, both made mistakes which took away the win, but it´s evident that it´s easier to keep the first place compared to having to overtake Alonso

Canada: Ok, strategy worked out good, same for RoGro

But also many of his races have been ruined by lousy strategies and bad pit calls, specially in the second half of the season

YES, Hulk is a great driver, but I support McLaren decision on going for Perez


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:31 pm 
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metamorphomisk wrote:
For me, it's Maldonado


:thumbup: seconded.

More exciting than Hulk and Perez combined. And when he had the chance he took it, whereas the other two let possible victories slip from their grasp.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:36 pm 
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metamorphomisk wrote:
For me, it's Maldonado


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:40 pm 
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If Hulk is so "Special" how come the only drive he could get after his first year was a test drive seat I believe he effectively paid for through sponsorship? I'm not sure but I thought he also brought funding this year to FI?

The guy seems all right, not a prick and like a lot of the grid given the right circumstances he could get a WDC. However if he was truly head and shoulders above his comrades why is he making a sideways move to Sauber? why didn't some of the top teams take him under their belt to keep on the grid in a smaller team in 2011 to move up for 2012 or 2013?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:01 pm 
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benmc wrote:
I really do believe that if the Sauber was so strong in that area, Kobayashi would've been able to pull off some similar performances. The Sauber has definitely been the kindest car to tyres since Pirelli entered the sport, but pretty much all evidence of that comes from Sergio's races.


True. Perez's best results in 2012:

Malaysia 2nd, Kobayashi was running 13th 60 seconds behind
Canada 3rd, Kobayashi 9th
Italy 2nd, Kobayashi 9th 40 second behind

Kobayashi

Spain 5th, Perez's race was already finished in first corner, when Grosjean punctured his tyre
Germany 4th, Perez 6th 5 second behind
Japan 3rd, Perez crashed out from 7th place
Kobayashi 6th, Perez caused collision running 3 positions ahead of Kobayashi

benmc wrote:
Perez failed to score in the last six but that wasn't all his fault. I don't think he became over-confident, but I do think he gained a 'nothing to lose' mentality which made him take risks he might not try otherwise. At least he was still fast. He dominated Kobayashi in qualifying towards the end of the season, and was running well in several races before he ran into trouble/bad luck.


Exactly. Maybe people don't know, but after Japan Kobayashi wasn't anywhere near Perez's pace. Outqualified in last 5 races, 0.5-1 second per lap slower than Perez in races. You would expect that podium in your home country would boost you, even if you learned you won't be driving for the same team next year, like "f**k you Sauber, I will show you made the wrong decision". Nothing like that happened, Kobayashi was barely mentioned, while Perez, for wrong or right reasons, was in a spotlight, because he was actually fighting.

benmc wrote:
The biggest problem for Sauber was that a lot of circuits towards the end of the season didn't favour Sauber. That car was only a frontrunner at fast, flowing tracks such as Catalunya, Silverstone, Spa and Suzuka. At other tracks, it was average at best, and at slow tracks like Hungary and Singapore, it was uncompetitive. Only Suzuka and possibly Austin fit into the 'fast, flowing' category, and their lack of pace in Austin indicates they may have fallen away in the development race.


At Austin Perez was running excellent 8th, while his teammate was 16th, until he run into brakes problem.

benmc wrote:
Junior formulae records mean nothing in F1. If they did, Jan Magnussen and Tommy Byrne would've been top racers, and Vettel would be nothing special. I'm not bashing Hulkenberg here by any means - He was truly exceptional in the last few races and has really proved me wrong. But we've yet to see him start a season as well as he can finish one. That should come with experience, but it's far too early to say he is the next star. He has the potential, just like Perez does, but I don't think either of them is the next Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton.


That's the only bit I disagree with ;) For my money Hulk and Perez will be as good as Alonso and Hamilton in a few years, but Hulk needs good car to show that, while Perez will need proper team to take care of his issues (hot head basically), because good car will be there. Add to that Grosjean, Bottas and maybe someone else, future is exciting :thumbup:


Overall great post benmc :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:04 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
If Hulk is so "Special" how come the only drive he could get after his first year was a test drive seat I believe he effectively paid for through sponsorship? I'm not sure but I thought he also brought funding this year to FI?

The guy seems all right, not a prick and like a lot of the grid given the right circumstances he could get a WDC. However if he was truly head and shoulders above his comrades why is he making a sideways move to Sauber? why didn't some of the top teams take him under their belt to keep on the grid in a smaller team in 2011 to move up for 2012 or 2013?

Alonso had a year without a race seat after his first season as well. Does that reflect on how special he was at that point in his career?

Not that I'm saying that Hulk will be a double world champ, but the fact that he had a year as a reserve driver doesn't mean he isn't a very good driver and I can see him at a top 3 or 4 team soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:11 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Johnston wrote:
If Hulk is so "Special" how come the only drive he could get after his first year was a test drive seat I believe he effectively paid for through sponsorship? I'm not sure but I thought he also brought funding this year to FI?

The guy seems all right, not a prick and like a lot of the grid given the right circumstances he could get a WDC. However if he was truly head and shoulders above his comrades why is he making a sideways move to Sauber? why didn't some of the top teams take him under their belt to keep on the grid in a smaller team in 2011 to move up for 2012 or 2013?

Alonso had a year without a race seat after his first season as well. Does that reflect on how special he was at that point in his career?

Not that I'm saying that Hulk will be a double world champ, but the fact that he had a year as a reserve driver doesn't mean he isn't a very good driver and I can see him at a top 3 or 4 team soon.



IIRC though that was Flavio's/Alonsos choice. They opted to go for the test seat over the race seat. (Remember in those days a test driver could do more miles than the race driver) IIRC he was offered a few seats and might have gotten the Benetton one. But ultimately it was a Management/driver decision to go to the test seat.

Hulk didn't have that choice the FI seat was a last chance saloon as it were which as far as I am aware he paid for.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Deep_blue wrote:
Why does everybody keep saying all Perez results are due to strategy, really? He has outpaced his teammate in almost every race

Monza: Went 1 stop like most of other drivers, where´s the luck there? He started with hards and managed to have SAME pace as other with softs, then took advantage when switched to softs, this is no luck, he drove flawlessly


:thumbup:

Monza - Perez starts from 12th on new hards, Kobayashi from 8th on used mediums. Perez passes Kobayashi on lap 7 and vanishes into distance. Stops on lap 30 for new mediums, eats everyone alive on his way and finishes 40 seconds ahead in 2nd place. Possibly fastest or second fastest car on race day, certainly only in hands of Perez.

Austin - Button starts from 12th on new hards, Hamilton from 2nd on used mediums. Stops on lap 35 for new mediums. In remaining laps he should get the same advantage as Perez had in Monza from tyres. Didn't happen, loses additional 10 seconds to Hamilton and Vettel, 8 seconds to Massa, 3 seconds to Alonso in the fastest or second fastest car on race day, certainly faster than Ferrari.

Yet some fans think one of this performances was great on its own, while the other one was mainly due to tyre strategy. Thankfully teams are much wiser and one of them rewarded this young guy, who got 'all results thanks to tyre strategies'.

Deep_blue wrote:
YES, Hulk is a great driver, but I support McLaren decision on going for Perez


As a F1 fan I would be very happy to see Hulk in McLaren. Even more happier to see Hulkenberg and Perez in Sauber. And the best for me would be Hulkenberg and Perez in McLaren. I keep fingers crossed to make it happen. Hulkenberg, Perez or eventually Hamilton paired in McLaren, team which is the most fair of the top ones, that would be hell of a line-up :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
If Hulk is so "Special" how come the only drive he could get after his first year was a test drive seat I believe he effectively paid for through sponsorship? I'm not sure but I thought he also brought funding this year to FI?

The guy seems all right, not a prick and like a lot of the grid given the right circumstances he could get a WDC. However if he was truly head and shoulders above his comrades why is he making a sideways move to Sauber? why didn't some of the top teams take him under their belt to keep on the grid in a smaller team in 2011 to move up for 2012 or 2013?


I don't think he paid for Force India in 2011, but even if he did it was peanuts in comparison to what others pay for similar roles.

In 2010 top teams didn't need new driver. Red Bull had Vettel and Webber fighting for title, same as McLaren with Button and Hamilton, while Ferrari had Alonso and newly re-signed Massa, with eye on Kubica for 2012. Williams had to choose Maldonado to pay their bills, but they offered seat at Virgin for Hulk. He refused, went to Force India, because he thought new teams are dead ends. The rest is well known.

Is he head and shoulders above other youngsters? I don't think so, but certainly he is very, very good and interesting young prospect and top teams will keep an eye on his performances. Why Sauber? Well, there are lot of reasons...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
Johnston wrote:
If Hulk is so "Special" how come the only drive he could get after his first year was a test drive seat I believe he effectively paid for through sponsorship? I'm not sure but I thought he also brought funding this year to FI?

The guy seems all right, not a prick and like a lot of the grid given the right circumstances he could get a WDC. However if he was truly head and shoulders above his comrades why is he making a sideways move to Sauber? why didn't some of the top teams take him under their belt to keep on the grid in a smaller team in 2011 to move up for 2012 or 2013?


I don't think he paid for Force India in 2011, but even if he did it was peanuts in comparison to what others pay for similar roles.

In 2010 top teams didn't need new driver. Red Bull had Vettel and Webber fighting for title, same as McLaren with Button and Hamilton, while Ferrari had Alonso and newly re-signed Massa, with eye on Kubica for 2012. Williams had to choose Maldonado to pay their bills, but they offered seat at Virgin for Hulk. He refused, went to Force India, because he thought new teams are dead ends. The rest is well known.

Is he head and shoulders above other youngsters? I don't think so, but certainly he is very, very good and interesting young prospect and top teams will keep an eye on his performances. Why Sauber? Well, there are lot of reasons...



Thats why I said they could have placed him in another team to keep him on track.

For example, Buttons was up at the end of 2011 if Macca didn't want to exercise the years extension. With their links with Fi they cold have placed him like Ferrari did with Bianchi.

Ferrari could have stuck him in with Sauber. Merc could have kept him close in case Schui or Rosberg went.

Instead Williams rated the elderly Barri more and No one else even sniffed at him until the Friday seat at FI came along.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:24 am 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
Should? Who are you to tell McLaren which driver they need to sign? They have tons of data, you have what... an opinion?

Exactly! So keep your hair on.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:54 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Jakhannaby wrote:
Watching Nico Hulkenberg battle it out with the elite towards the end of this year, really excited me and I think he will be the next addition to the "big three". His performances at spa and brazil were breathtaking and contrasted with Di restas boring and average racing.


As you must be aware, many think it's a side step going to Sauber, which I don't think so. On an average, the Sauber is a better car than Force India, atleast from the Aerodynamics point of view. Sauber as a car is very tyre friendly, which is why the podium finishes in this car in 2012 were due to tyre strategies.

Hulk if gets the same quality car or better, he for sure will have the potential to score podiums. Since the Sauber is powered by a Ferrari engine, many do believe he could be replacing Massa in 2014.

Thats if Ferrari are happy to build a bigger car for him

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:59 pm 
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TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Agree, a great future talent but not someone who can excite me. The car looked poor most of the time in Di Resta's hands but in Nico's it was almost always challenging in the midfield. He is consistently good in a way I would compare to Vettel or maybe Jenson Button but not someone who can be absoultley amazing at times albeit sometimes terrible like Hamilton or for that matter Perez. Perez has proven himself capable of some amazing driving at times, battles through the field, closing up on better cars and drivers. Yes you could atribute that to the car but look at Kobayashi (this is rare criticsm of him coming from me), he has worn his tyres out generally quite quickly wheras Perez can handle them better. And like it or not, Hulkenberg threw away a shot at a win and has not proven himself in any normal race, Brazil was wet and a good strategy call and in Belgium at lot of quicker cars were smashed out. I think if you give him a dominant car he will be champion but I doubt he would have achieved anything near Alonso if you put him in this years Ferrari. You might think its harsh but I just dont see him as someone with much more to give. And I think next year he wont be able to achieve much for Sauber as just because they looked good last year dosnt mean they will be better in 2013, plus James Key is not designing their car next year.

Has James Key gone to Mercedes?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:00 pm 
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metamorphomisk wrote:
For me, it's Maldonado

Funny he should be brought up, Hulkenburg absolutely slaughtered him in GP2

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Johnston wrote:
If Hulk is so "Special" how come the only drive he could get after his first year was a test drive seat I believe he effectively paid for through sponsorship? I'm not sure but I thought he also brought funding this year to FI?

The guy seems all right, not a prick and like a lot of the grid given the right circumstances he could get a WDC. However if he was truly head and shoulders above his comrades why is he making a sideways move to Sauber? why didn't some of the top teams take him under their belt to keep on the grid in a smaller team in 2011 to move up for 2012 or 2013?

Alonso had a year without a race seat after his first season as well. Does that reflect on how special he was at that point in his career?

Not that I'm saying that Hulk will be a double world champ, but the fact that he had a year as a reserve driver doesn't mean he isn't a very good driver and I can see him at a top 3 or 4 team soon.



IIRC though that was Flavio's/Alonsos choice. They opted to go for the test seat over the race seat. (Remember in those days a test driver could do more miles than the race driver) IIRC he was offered a few seats and might have gotten the Benetton one. But ultimately it was a Management/driver decision to go to the test seat.

Hulk didn't have that choice the FI seat was a last chance saloon as it were which as far as I am aware he paid for.

No i believe that Williams offered to pay for his drive in a HRT in order that thay could keep him on their books but he turned it down for a test drive in a better team

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:07 pm 
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I would reserve my opinion until he proves himself; he is very good around Interlagos, but at other events he was mostly on pair with Di Resta. Sometimes better and at times worse than him. With some exceptions, first half of the season belonged to Di Resta's, the other half, to Hulkenberg.

The only real advantage is Hulkenbergs link with Ferrari through Sauber, and possibility of getting second seat at Scuderia Ferrari in a year or two.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
No i believe that Williams offered to pay for his drive in a HRT in order that thay could keep him on their books but he turned it down for a test drive in a better team



Was that not one of Sawards stories that was based on nothing other than Williams supplying some stuff to HRT?

One of his typical put a load of unrelated stuff together and make 2+2=5?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Agree, a great future talent but not someone who can excite me. The car looked poor most of the time in Di Resta's hands but in Nico's it was almost always challenging in the midfield. He is consistently good in a way I would compare to Vettel or maybe Jenson Button but not someone who can be absoultley amazing at times albeit sometimes terrible like Hamilton or for that matter Perez. Perez has proven himself capable of some amazing driving at times, battles through the field, closing up on better cars and drivers. Yes you could atribute that to the car but look at Kobayashi (this is rare criticsm of him coming from me), he has worn his tyres out generally quite quickly wheras Perez can handle them better. And like it or not, Hulkenberg threw away a shot at a win and has not proven himself in any normal race, Brazil was wet and a good strategy call and in Belgium at lot of quicker cars were smashed out. I think if you give him a dominant car he will be champion but I doubt he would have achieved anything near Alonso if you put him in this years Ferrari. You might think its harsh but I just dont see him as someone with much more to give. And I think next year he wont be able to achieve much for Sauber as just because they looked good last year dosnt mean they will be better in 2013, plus James Key is not designing their car next year.

Has James Key gone to Mercedes?

pretty sure he went to torro rosso


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No i believe that Williams offered to pay for his drive in a HRT in order that thay could keep him on their books but he turned it down for a test drive in a better team



Was that not one of Sawards stories that was based on nothing other than Williams supplying some stuff to HRT?

One of his typical put a load of unrelated stuff together and make 2+2=5?

Maybe that was the case i just remember hearing the story

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:56 pm 
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I've always liked Hulkenberg and I always thought he'd do very well in the sport after his GP2 championship. He performed OK for Williams and when he was dropped by them for 2011, I thought he may not get another chance in F1. But I'm glad Force India took him on last season and his drives in the second half of the season have been brilliant and he really does deserve his move to Sauber. In my opinion it's only a stepping stone to Ferrari at some stage in the future


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:59 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Agree, a great future talent but not someone who can excite me. The car looked poor most of the time in Di Resta's hands but in Nico's it was almost always challenging in the midfield. He is consistently good in a way I would compare to Vettel or maybe Jenson Button but not someone who can be absoultley amazing at times albeit sometimes terrible like Hamilton or for that matter Perez. Perez has proven himself capable of some amazing driving at times, battles through the field, closing up on better cars and drivers. Yes you could atribute that to the car but look at Kobayashi (this is rare criticsm of him coming from me), he has worn his tyres out generally quite quickly wheras Perez can handle them better. And like it or not, Hulkenberg threw away a shot at a win and has not proven himself in any normal race, Brazil was wet and a good strategy call and in Belgium at lot of quicker cars were smashed out. I think if you give him a dominant car he will be champion but I doubt he would have achieved anything near Alonso if you put him in this years Ferrari. You might think its harsh but I just dont see him as someone with much more to give. And I think next year he wont be able to achieve much for Sauber as just because they looked good last year dosnt mean they will be better in 2013, plus James Key is not designing their car next year.

Has James Key gone to Mercedes?

pretty sure he went to torro rosso

I just recognised the name i did think it was actually the Lotus aero man that went to Mercedes, maybe he has a similar name?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I just recognised the name i did think it was actually the Lotus aero man that went to Mercedes, maybe he has a similar name?


That was Bob Bell I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I just recognised the name i did think it was actually the Lotus aero man that went to Mercedes, maybe he has a similar name?


That was Bob Bell I think.

Thank you, the mist has cleared :)

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